Even though this subject has, in John Howard"s view, been "done to death", it seems to be back in the discussion ring.

While it's fine for retired politicians to release books as monuments to their careers, it is also interesting to ruminate on their perceived gross miscalculations and delusions of grandeur. Mr Howard displayed these qualities late in his tenure as Prime Minister with his refusal to hand over to a successor in Peter Costello.
It was rather pathetic from the electorate's standpoint, before the 2007 election, to see Howard still insisting on holding Costello's hand. Presenting themselves as a "temporary team" in a last ditch attempt to get them over the line in an election where Labor's star was ascending seemed to be an act of supreme desperation - and even then Mr Howard "didn't get it". Of course, the reality was that it was much too late by then to do anything about the question of succession - and down the gurgler they went.
Peter Costello seemed to want to let his party know, in no uncertain terms, what he thought of their folly - and he did so by leaving them in a succession vacuum after their bitter defeat.

It would have been interesting;
I would have thought originally that Costello would have been a good choice, but his lack of interest in staying (not much longer than Howard would have stepped down) raises some questions as to how engaged in the role he truly would have been?

The rest of the Liberal Front bench were gorillas- Howard was clearly the best person to lead them, Costello aside.
Turnbull I would only shudder to imagine what he would REALLY do once Prime Minister. Of course, too many gullible simpletons would have been captivated by a handful of speeches he made specifically because he knew they'd fall for it, would still be fawning for this creep.

Of course Howard should have stepped down, he was passed his use by date, & should have known it.

In fact he should have gone 3 years earlier. It is only Labors unfailing ability to pick bl00dy awful leaders that got him over the line in the previous election. I don't believe the average Ozzie ever liked him, but Labors policies, & leadership was so bad, he could hardly loose.

I doubt Costello would won that election, we Ozzies appear to have to do something stupid regularly, just look at what we have now.

Costello made the greatest miscalculation however, in not taking the Liberal leadership when it was his to take. He assumed that the new leader would have no chance of beating Rudd at the next election, & preferred to never be leader, than be a failed one term leader of the opposition.

Of course everyone agreed with him. Who could have foreseen the way the public finally picked up on the stupid arrogance of Rudd, & chuck him out so suddenly?

A Costello lead coalition would easily have won this last election, I'm sure.

The worst thing Howard ever did, as far as Australia is concerned, in not stepping down when he should have, has lead to this dreadful government we now have. I'm sure he would never have wished this mess on us.

Isn't it easy to see it all so clearly in retrospect?

I though that Costello did the right thing after the election. The party had to move on and the leadership straight after a loosing election is death. Howard should have stepped away in 2006 at the top of his game, now he looks like a singer who didn't know their voice was gone. I recon Costello would have defeated Rudd as Keating did Hewson. Pity i though Hewson would actually have done ok but we see now that Rudd was a disaster.

One of the major papers did an online survey on this. When I
voted, something like 8000 people had so far voted, 85% of them
backing Costello and disagreeing with Howard. That says something.

That's where you may be wrong, Hasbeen.

>>I'm sure he would never have wished this mess on us<<

My view is that he is enjoying every minute of it, as it makes him look even more magnificent, in his own eyes. And Janette's, of course.

The whole farrago of leadership mismanagement was caused by Howard's massive ego, no doubt polished daily by Janette, which allowed him to believe that he was still the best option to lead the Party into what turned out to be electoral defeat.

What this country needs, and has so little chance of producing, is statesmanship.

We encourage "thinking little", because "thinking big" is just another from of big-noting oneself, and is fundamentally un-Australian. We encourage in our politicians a preference for the demotic, in the belief egalitarianism demands it.

All of which Howard embodied, to a "T".

The morning walk around the foreshore in his daggy trackies. The promotion that he was a "cricket tragic", when he himself probably never progressed past the under-11s. The permanent smugness of your average suburban solicitor, ever-ready to undertake your conveyancing for you, no matter how challenging it might be.

Not only should he have moved on sooner, we should never have allowed him to be there in the first place.

And if anyone else tells me what a wonderful economic manager he was, I will have just four words for them: Tony Blair, Gordon Brown.

http://econ.economicshelp.org/2007/03/economic-record-of-gordon-brown.html

What we are seeing now - the autohagiography, the petulance of Peter, the random throwing of shoes - is just another tedious chapter in the too-long-running saga of Enterobius Howardii, the great Australian parasite.

By the way, did I mention that I didn't much like the guy?

it was his call
at the time..he was the lib party

just as kevi...tried to do the same to the lab-rats
two party farce...party loyalty..is treason
those following the party line...serve special intrests
[of the party]..[not the people]

we have adopted..demonic-autocracy...just like the yanks
gillard/and the tony-abort..are trying the same thing
more of intrest..is the joe hockey-play

if he gets silenced..or sells-out..its game over
[ok i know...just to get..party nomination..you gotta sell-out]

we get the govt we earned
[the clever thing by john..was adopting a perversion..of any policy...the lab rats..tried to get going]...[made the lab-rats...a policy free-zone]

even so...that...cap and trade..was first pushed by jonny
then the lab-rat[kevi...took it up]...and then the facts underpinnjing...the non debaite..began to unravel

revealing it to be a money market scam
[who bought out the greens...lol..to pull it off]

but the grens...have ben revealed...simply via their addiction to the solar-INDUSTRY...even their soy -lattes...are grown on cleared amazonian rainforrest...

[noting home composting..is the 2 de highest cause 0f global warming]
ten times worse..than carbon-di/oxide

noting the special cleaner...BIG BUSINESS..uses to clean..the MASS-produced solar cells..is 100 times worse..!..than co2

noting further the GROSS..expenditures..subsidies on solar-cells
[at this expermental stage of development....
meaning those who got them...have bought..a soon to be obsolete product]

and worse..we geared industry up...to make more polution
bying them from overseas..[the only green-jobs..are putting them in]

we been conned,,by the 2 party farce...demonic auitocracy
poli-tricks..stinks

Howard hung on too long, he should have gone.
I often wounder what part his wife played in him staying.
Costello however would only have lost that election by a smaller margin.

Well, the real pity in having to suffer Howard, and Costello, for so long was that the ALP were such a spineless crew under Beazley, that they then elected that other chap, whose name escapes me, apparently with the assistance of Gillard, and then the elevating of Rudd to well beyond his abilities, and then treating him as if the clay was not already poking through his feet of gold.

So, should Howard have gone?

It's not worth thinking about really is it?

He didn't go, he stayed, and finally he managed to shame himself by losing both the election and his seat.

Hahahahahaha, what a total GOOSE!

Now, of course, we are back to a totally spineless ALP, run by someone with no original ideas whatsoever,and not a single person of 'ability' on the horizon to take over when she fails, shortly.

And while, thankfully, Costello is a no-show, we have a clueless Abbott and a hot air merchant in Hockey, with a complete dunce in Bishop leading the 'alternative' government.

Given all that, maybe Howard was a high achiever, and deserved to hang in there?

Well said Pericles.

Pericles,

I agree, well said.

TBC,

I agree with your assessment.
Interestingly, although in the past I tended to be a bit of a political junkie, I was so demoralised by what was on offer during the last campaign that I stopped watching telly, listening to radio or reading papers - which is extraordinary for someone like me....but the thing is that I haven't returned, so I'm only getting smatterings of political info. For instance, I found out three days late that someone had tried to clock Johnny with a pair of shoes! (could be the highlight of the political year)
And I consider witnessing Howard lose his seat as well as the election through his utter egotistical cluelessness as one of the best examples of poetic justice I've come across. This is a man who had no interest in the immediate future of his party beyond his own tenure as Prime MInister.
I certainly think Costello thought that the coalition wouldn't get a sniff of government for at least two terms. Still, I think he gleaned much gratification in walking out as he did

Careful there Blue Cross, your vindictiveness is showing.

Yes Howard should have gone & didn't, however, unlike any of Labor leadership lot, who would have moved to a safer electorate, he didn't run out on his electorate to protect his own skin. He stayed & fought for his seat, even if his fight was severely compromised by his election requirements as leader.

When he lost he did not whine the way his Labor replacement did, when she lost the next time around.

In retrospect, it is obvious that he is the best PM we have had in at least 30 years. What's more he had guts. He went to an election with a GST policy, a policy Keating wanted, but did not have the guts to implement, even from power, let alone carry to an election. It was that guts that was to cost him his seat.

I just wish we did have Costello to fall back to. He may be a mere shadow of Howard, but he is head & shoulders above anyone else in either party right now, & had a good teacher.

Thanks Poirot. I too rather like Pericles post.

And like you, I feel like spewing all over the floor whenever I hear a politician speaking, particularly on Q&A, which I have also given up on.

I stopped reading The Australian 18 months ago, after having it delivered for quite some years.

My only 'news' comes in from the ABC, and snippets one of my sons sends from the SMH.

Tony Windsor actually sounds like a decent person, but isn't he a solitary figure?

Doug Cameron is wondering why he and his ilk are despised by voters, but who has ever heard of him unless they were a keen union watcher a few years ago?

He only has to speak up in the Senate, and say what he really thinks, if he were the least bit serious, and not just another factional hack who was gifted a red seat for moving aside for some other goon in the Metalwurkers Union.

Oh Hasbeen (is that your avatar, John Howard?)

Your unquestioning gullibility peaks through your Jesus sandals.

Howard stayed because he wouldn't, by that time, have found a seat to take him would he?

Maybe he should have stood in Turnbull's seat?

I agree with you that Maxine was a very poor loser, having been gifted her spot through the usual ALP family links in the first place, and having contributed not much more than winning the seat from Howard.

Although, in fairness, that was Rudd's fault for keeping her away from anything useful to do.

If Howard was 'the best' PM, then it really is a sad list of PMs we have suffered isn't it?

But that means that your 'next' PM is Menzies!

Surely not?

It was his indolence that kept Australia in the Dark Ages for so long.

Hasbeen,

Are you seriously suggesting that John Howard consistently displayed good judgment? If obsequiously hanging onto the coattails of a dangerously incompetent president and ultimately (through his own self-interest) leading his party into a humiliating defeat is your idea of "head and shoulders above anyone else" - that doesn't say much for any of them.
If he had possessed true wisdom (as opposed to cunning) he would have bowed out long before the rot set in, taking pains to provide for the continuation of good leadership within his party.
He would then deserve to be hailed as a true leader and not just another self-obsessed politician.

It is also interesting to note that there was a goodly dose of irony in the fact that Peter never made it to the top job.
If we refer back to the smirks inflicted upon the Australian populace when the Howard Government first took office, it would be difficult for most people not to recall Peter and his ability to consistently register 100 percent on the pollies' smug-o-meter....In fact, it's a bit of a mystery that to do a "Costello" hasn't become a byline for framing an inane smirk - (a bit like to be "Buswelled"is to have your bra-strap flicked)

I could have guessed it Bluey, anyone who can sit through much of the tripe that passes for comment on our ABC these days, has to be left of Khrushchev, & totally incapable of looking at a picture & seeing anything but red. There was a time when I was a rusted on ABC listener, but now I just feel embarrassed for those who can listen to the garbage.

Poirot, I don’t think he always made good decisions, but I do believe he did more often then most. I don’t think he was too cunning, or he would not have spent so much time in the wilderness. Nor do I think he was any great shakes as a politician, just a damn sight better than those the other side had to offer at the time, & better than most his lot had as well. I do agree his dominance may have cost us a couple of worthy replacements, which is a pity.

I can’t say I have much personal experience of Menzies, or some of those who followed him closely, but starting with Whitlam, why don’t you suggest one who was not worse than Howard, or in fact, any who were not a total stuff up.

About the only thing that gives me any comfort at present is the fact that we could survive, in almost reasonable condition after fools like Whitlam, Fraser, Hawke & company.

Yes Julia is a total waste of space, but her ability to back flip may just stop her from doing too much damage. While running scared of mistakes, she may just do nothing, hopefully. Otherwise she may keep her word to the greens, which could really do some irreparable damage.

Poor Hasbeen, doomed to watch such vapid shows as Sunrise, ACA, and whatever other commercial dirge goes out to feed the unthinking of the drone world.

You are well named as a 'hasbeen' if you truly believe the ABC is left of Kruschev.

Anyway, he was a rightwinger, so you should be chumming up to him shouldn't you?

Don't worry Hasbeen, the ABC gives me the irrits at times (particularly Fran), but they do try to do politics quite well, and that cannot be said of commercial TV at all.

Or, oh my gods!, I never thought of this, do you watch the Murdoch Skylies on some ripoff pay channel?

I thought only the Yanks fell for that tripe!

There yer go, takes all sorts to make the world.

I'm not sure there is any real value in comparing PMs, since they operate in their particular eras, but I'd have thought you'd appreciate Hawke, who was a keen follower of Thatcher and Reagan, and whose treasurer implemented Howard's dreams that Howard never had the courage to do.

At this stage, I'd have to mark Gillard as being about as much use as the bevy of boys that came after Menzies. Perhaps she will get taken by another yellow submarine, one of Beazley's dud ones even, and we can be saved from the rest of her reign as The Baptist Queen.

It might be more productive to 'think forward' as to who might make a good/better PM though.

I see none within the ALP even in the starting blocks, although Belly would have us voting for the GGs little boy, but I'd rather like to see Turnbull rising again.

What about you Hasbeen, or are you a sneaky Bishop supporter, once the Abbott is back in his meditation cell?

Habeen,

Perhaps it's not a matter of Mr Howard being "too" cunning - perhaps he was just cunning enough...he certainly wasn't wise.

One has to remember the he took the reins in the wake of the fabulous foot-in...um...mouth, Alexander Downer. This was at a time when leadership talent was seen as very thin on the ground in the Liberal ranks.
So it was a case of Mr Howard seeming to offer a steadying hand with young Peter in tow as the apprentice...
The Gods were finally smiling on Mr Howard and I admit one does have to give him credit for taking advantage of the gifts they bestowed ... from the extremes of Pauline Hanson to Mark Latham to George Bush and 9/11 to boat people and all the accompanying opportunities they presented

Hi there dear Poirot :)

I think Howard should have stepped down... then we could have seen what Peter C is really like.

From what I gather, Peter is more 'progressive'..and that would have been badddd for us all.

Hey.. care to join us on the 'Politics and Perception' thread ? :)

Bluey, that must be your TV watch list mate, I don't even know what you are talking about with most of those programs you mention.

By the time I've watched one news, [varied], Top Gear, Myth busters, the F1 GPs & Motto GPs, I'm running out of programs I’m interested in. I just don’t like fiction, soaps or ABC opinion. Wouldn't know about the commercial opinion programs, I've never watched them.

I find it annoying that SBS, & the dreaded ABC will put on decent documentaries at the same time, mostly at weekends. It was OK when I had my old analogy TV, & video recorder. I could watch one, & record the other. Then my kids decided I needed a new HD TV, somewhat bigger than my old one, but not one of those huge things. Now I can only watch one, & there’s no way I’m going to spend $750, [more than the TVs worth probably] for a modern gadget that will do the same old simple trick.

I really would like to do something nasty to the politicians who decided we needed HD TV or Pay TV before that.

I’m very glad I was too busy to pay too much attention to politics, when I was a younger bloke. I would have probably become all upset at their stupidity.

Who said I should have liked Hawke. That fool was too busy trying to make sure everyone loved him, to have any time to do anything useful. He cost us a PM who may have been pretty good. Hayden had done the hard yards, & was not just a glamour boy like Hawke. He might have been great.

Then Keating, street smart, cunning as a thingo rat, if only he had been working for our good, rather than Labor’s & his own.

Don’t forget, to be a hasbeen, you must have been something, at least once in your life. Are you going to make the cut?

Sorry Bluey, I missed the Turnbull answer somehow.

I'm afraid I see Turnbull as another Rudd, just as pretty, just as stupid, same personality, just with a slightly different hair cut.

I'd much rather we kept Julia than him, as I think she's less dangerous. She has already exceeded her dream, [to one day be PM} & is likely to sit gently glowing with pride, & do little. She’s shown little inclination to do anything not forced on her to acquire the job so far, fortunately.

Turnbull thinks he’s god’s gift to Oz, & wants to get out & do things. However, just because he was lucky in starting a business that suited the time once, it does not mean he’s smart. In fact I think he’s quite thick, & tends to go off half cocked. I think he’d be worse than Abbott, who would try to do what he saw as right, [some may not like what he saw as right], but would go tentatively & carefully I believe. He’d probably not do much more than Gillard in the long run.

Woohoo TBC three threads minus any religious attacks! Your posts are refreshingly interesting and intelligent! I hope you enjoyed your week!

By the way, TBC, if you had read a few more of Hasbeen's posts and threads on OLO you would realise that Hasbeen's words ring true.

In other words, Hasbeen is a highly intelligent fair person who is a long term OLO contributor. One should show a little more respect for Hasbeen, particularly in view of the fact, that he has taken a great deal of time to assist other Australians on OLO over the years.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit/intelligence. There is an underlying cause in the use of sarcasm.

Howard decided not to step down to allow Costello the leadership because of one major reason - EGO.

Costello's mistake as JH has recently stated was underestimating his temperament and personality style. Howard could not have stood down after such a blatant attempt by others in the Party to depose him. He could not be seen to lose face especially to his nemesis Costello.

Whether or not Howard would have stood down in any case can be debated 'til the cows come home.

As for his promise to Costello well...it was only a non-core promise afterall.

Dear gods, we-are-unique, your use of sarcasm is devastating.

I give up, it's a-fair-cop-guv'.

Why on Earth should I retrieve OLO archives before I rsvp to a fellow poster?

And just how many of Hasbeen's post have I read anyway? What on Earth would you know what I have or have not read?

Are you suggesting I dig out your file too, before I dare to respond to your grand statements?

"One should show a little more respect for Hasbeen, particularly in view of the fact, that he has taken a great deal of time to assist other Australians on OLO over the years."

OK, if 'one' should, then by all means do that. I assume that you are talking about yourself when you say 'one'?

I must say that Hasbeen has made absolutely no effort whatsoever to assist me 'over the years'.

No doubt because I am NOT AN AUSTRALIAN, eh? Another damn racist, eh?

Is it just because I am a black homosexual atheist communist Jew from Libya, with one leg, I wonder?

Now, I've been on OLO for a while myself, off and on, and I don't think I've ever been confronted with such stupidity as you've just presented me with.

I have nothing at all against Hasbeen, and I think he(?) is more than capable of dealing with any comment I might post, on his own, without any intrusion from you, or your invisible friends.

AGIR, or others, might dive in and spruik on Hasbeen's side of politics against something I might post, but I doubt he'd stoop to some blathering idiocy such as you have dared attempt.

As for Hasbeen's words 'ringing true', I have no doubt they do, to some, but not to others.

It's called 'life', we-are-unique, and 'life' involves conflict, sometimes tempestuous, sometimes not.

Now, if you are not prepared to have your views challenged, clear off to somewhere quieter, not that this is a bear pit, of course.

Take my advice, unwrap an old Bex, warm the pot, have a nice lie-down before you post anything else.

Hi Pelly,

It does seem apparent that the personal dynamics between Howard, Costello and the rest of 'em was the defining factor in all of this.
The curious anomaly, however, is the apparent inertia within party room ranks to move in required numbers against Mr Howard when it became glaringly obvious (at least in the public arena) that his juggernaut had run out of steam. For some reason the party lacked the vision and bravado required to move beyond the safety that Howard had once represented.
Howard's own explanation that he was somehow "defending his honour" is hollow in the extreme, and doesn't alter the fact one iota that ultimately he put his own egocentric interests above those of his party.

Poirot, I guess the problem was that the Libs just weren't as practiced with the long knives, [in the back] as Labor.

May be it’s the union experience of most of Labor that has them ready to pull out those long knives, I’m sure it’s not that the Libs have any different moral attitude, just a lack of experience.

After all, Labor has kicked out 2 of their last 4 PMs, without even too much blood letting. The Libs, probably, should get coaching

Au contraire, Hasbeen,

I'm surprised you don't recall the revolving door charades of Howard and Peacock which kept us all highly entertained for some time.

And the "long knives" were certainly in evidence comparatively recently - as Malcolm Turnbull would attest.

No, for some reason, Howard was able to maintain his hypnotic hold over his party of lemmings and they all went over the cliff together.

I don't think that any of you have checked on what the parties want you to sign to join their party, I went to join the Labor party about 35 years ago, and was told that to join, I had to sign a promise that I would agree with the decisions of the majority. Because there were many decisions the Labor party made that I disagreed with, I had no intention of agreeing ad hoc to any such promise, and did not join. I have been told that this same promise applies with all parties. I believe that to sign such a promise, you are admitting that you have no integrity, and not too much intelligence, and looking at so many of the decisions that have been made in any and every party, I have to contend that there is no person in parliamentary parties who are intelligent enough, have enough integrity or allegiance to our country, to be trusted in running our country. Have a good look, we are just dribbling along on the verge of a recession, Tony Abbott has mentioned a flat rate tax which would bring us down to the depression. Howard, Menzies, Julia or any person of a political party, should never have got in, we only want people in who are intelligent, have tops in integrity and allegiance to Australia. So where are they, frightened off by the rules to join a usless party, so form another party, and demand a resume to indicate the importance above what is important in other less important positions, The run of lawyers have proved only that they can't be trusted.

A little respect goes a long way for yourself and others in order for your views to be taken seriously TBC - the point I was making.

For what its worth I enjoy quite a few of your comments on various topics when you are not generalising about a person's character.

Looking forward to reading your future comments on OLO!

Hasbeen should be more aware of the facts - the publice did not wake up to the arrogance of Rudd and Co and chuck them out as stated by Hasbeen. Kevin Rudd was ditched by his own party, and if he had not been, then they probably would have won the election outright.

Welcome HAZARD.
You may be right,I think you are, but todays Sydney Telegraph has a very true story about Rudd's down fall.
I speak as a Labor member.
Kevin fell in love, with himself, he stopped talking to his team and stopped taking action.
HE HAD TO GO.
You must understand, some posters, just a few, have no intention of letting truth interfere with a chance to slander the ALP.

Belly, Rudd has always been in-love with himself.

You should have seen the damage he caused in Qld when he worked for the Premier.

Same style, same bad results, and in the end, Goss lost the support of the workers/unions/voters.

Mind you, the ALPs Mike Kaiser had a big hand in that too.

Now Kaiser works for the NBN crew, so much as I support having a proper Internet system, I am expecting NBN to be about the same standard as Green Loans and 'inch-ulation' fiasco.

Yes Belly, & some have blinkers that stop them seeing anything but what their ideology lets in. Rudd did fall in love with himself sure, but it was many years ago. For some time, he was reasonably good at hiding it from the Oz public, who rarely give more than a couple of minutes attention per week to politics, but they finally got it.

Hazard, Rudd was chucked out by his party, yes, because the public had finally seen through him.

The polls were showing that they were going to throw him, & Labor, out on their head. The nearly did anyway. If he’d stayed Labor may have been lucky to have as many members as the Greens, after the election.

You can split hairs if you like, about who threw him out, so if it helps you feel better, let’s say the public threw him out by proxy. Does that feel better?

The problem is, the ramifications of all this, are still being
played out now, with the couple of clowns leading the libs at
present.

Just last week Hockey made a fair old fool of himself, by not
understanding the basic fundamentals of the banking business.

Next Gillard was due to address the BCA, but had to decline at
the last minute, because the libs refused to grant her a pairing
in parliament, through sheer bloody mindedness it seems. The
400 people who had taken the trouble to attend, were hardly
impressed.

Its just incredible that the present team of bozos are showing
such bad judgement, time after time. They really need replacing,
for the liberal party to regain any kind of credibility.

That yabby was a good post it was not biased not one sided had I posted it I would be called to task for blind bias.
Yet every word could have been mine.
Poor Kim could have won,my constant references my total distaste of Latham and a star of today, but forever a self serving idiot Crean.
That fool who holds a hunter seat and had to go to the bad boys bench after his free China trips, bit more actually,came to notice.
But equally bad, un trust worthy is Gillard.
We thought Rudd meant it, we never knew he like Simon Crean would betray even him self, I remember it forever.
Gillard in my first post after the down fall, and most from that date,has my whip marks on her back.
In the union movement and my party, my views will be unwelcome to many.
But if we cling to her like survivors at sea fighting over a coconut we all drown.
WITH ALL THIS we are most likely to win yet another term, with the greens infesting us like intestinal trouble.
yet We hardly can get beat.

This thread highlights both party's have such problems.
Driven by self interest blindness to any thing but power Howard stayed,it was him who drove his defeat, his personal hatred of unions bought about workchoices.
Goggle his interference in postal workers union long before he lead this country [I do not like communist unions but Howard acted awfully]
My party has the added weight of the greens, conservatives have the nice compliant do as we are told national party to lean on.
Yet we have the best Friend you could have, no need to get our house in order while Abbott's confrontation, do not worry about truth plan is in place.
Let us note, those independents left the national party looking for a better deal for? the bush.

Yabby, replaced by who mate?

Back in the Howard’s early days as PM, there were a few good prospects, who would have made good leaders. Seeing a long road ahead, with no change likely, they took their bats & balls, & headed for careers where they could make decent money now, rather than wait for retirement, & the pension.

I suppose there may be some great prospective leaders in the Liberal ranks, but if so, they are keeping their heads way down, & are certainly not visible to me.

Unfortunately I don’t see any in the Labor ranks that would have me looking forward to voting for them, either.

Can you imagine the dilemma if Turnbull became leader Lib again, by default. With him Gillard & Brown you would have to vote informal. Even if there was a good independent available, you could not vote for them, unless we went back to first past the post. There is no way I could give a preference to any candidate of a party, led by any of that three.

Sorry folks, Abbott is really the best of a rather poor bunch.

Hasbeen, they will just have to trawl through the backbenchers
and check for talent.

As it is, those long time politicians like Abbott and Pyne try
to hog the limelight and their spot in the chook pecking order.

I'm sure that Hockey is a nice bloke, but nice bloke is not enough
to have the smarts to be federal treasurer, as his little joke
of a display over this last week showed.

Abbott is a shin kicker, hardly showing good judgement.

As Pericles pointed out, we need a statesman and the present
mob of clowns are certainly not that. Better to trawl the backbenches
now, then further down the track, before these two make more of a
mess of things.

Sorry no baiting involved Turnbull is the one.
He has learned a lot and has the smarts watch this space.
Labor, biased but always will be to real talent, Bill Shorten sooner the better.
The impending earth quake in NSW can only be a tonic, a wake up call for Labor.

I lay the blame at Howards feet for the STUPID continuation of tenure afer 2006 and the STUPID work choices legislation.

Belly, Bill Shorton has more credibility than Julia for my money, I admired Julia, but the bald faced lying turned me off.

http://newscambodia.orgcambodia news advertisment about the newest http://phone-mobile.infomobile phome
http://newscambodia.orgcambodia news are talking about environment in http://chinaih.infochina if you want to know clearly about it check it right now
http://newscambodia.orgnews in cambodia talking about http://englandfootball.usengland football stars
http://phnomcambodia.comcambodia people want to eat http://englandfood.usengland food
http://phnomcambodia.comPeople in cambodia are very happy when they http://englandtravel.ustravel to england
http://restaurant-cambodia.comcambodia restaurant it is the http://firsttimecredit.infofirst time that paying by credit card
http://restaurant-cambodia.comrestaurant cambodia have alot of http://englandfood.usenglish food and it really tasty
http://restaurant-cambodia.comrestaurant in cambodia have a professional chef from http://london-england.uslondon england
http://schoolgirl18.infoschool girl when they graduate they want to go to http://london-england.uslondon
http://schoolgirl18.infoschoolgirl are very interested about the newest http://phone-mobile.infomobile phonecloselink
http://sihanoukvillekampongsom.comkampongsom city have many foreigner come from http://london-england.usengland
http://sihanoukvillekampongsom.compeople in sihanoukville like watching http://englandfood.usengland football so much
http://sihanoukvillekampongsom.comsihanoukville people very happy when they play http://gamevance.infogame
http://sihanoukvillekampongsom.comsihanoukville have a lot of bar but the nice one is http://barsengland.comengland bar
http://thaienglish.infoThai people are very happy when they go to visit in http://englandcity.usengland city
http://thmarkol.comtmar kol a good place for http://englandtravel.usengland travel

Graham... we've been spammed!

Save us!

TBC click on the red cross under the item, GY is always busy and may never see it.
Sonofagun.
In stating my opinion I may,believe I will find some who dislike me for speaking out.
My life revolves around my party and the union I had the priverledge to serve.
I STRONGLY believe in openly saying it as it is I continue to serve.
The word solidarity is miss used too often, our polling should be much better can be.
We are stuttering, that is starting and stopping, announcing things then not doing it.
Hiding our true intentions but forgetting this.
Most Australians, the ones who left Labor included, ARE SICK of being treated as fools.
Bill Shorten may himself dislike what I say.
But he, only he, can restore my party's and country's stability and direction.
Look at Howard and even Rudd throw Turnbull in, not as he was but as he is becoming, Gillard can not get in the same boat.

I am reluctant to revisit the J W Howard person again but feel
I must. I am a full card carrying and proud "Howard Hater" and I will hereby share my reasons for being so.

Upon his election win in 1996, I was prepared to give him all the respect due as PM and leader of the Tories, but the man's deceptions and untruths finally turned me from tolerance to contempt!

I became, along with many others, despised and ridiculed by the lunar OZ right and Howard's cheer squad as one of those "wacko" Howard haters ...

But is it wrong or stupid to hold proven liars in contempt
ie "GST never ever, kids overboard, I will gladly leave when my
party wishes me to go WMD Iraq" etc etc ! be they friends, siblings or even spouses? and especially the Prime Minister of this Nation that I love ...


Cheers loobee

Should John Howard have stepped down in 2006. Probably.

John Howard in his recently published book, "Lazarus Rising," does acknowledge a number of mistakes. According to Lindsay Tanner, who reviewed the book in The Age. John Howard, "concedes that he didn't recognise the extent of the destabilising impact his ambittions had on
Peacock's leadership in 1985. He acknowledges that his leadership style was flawed, and that his Asian immigration intervention was a mistake. He accepts that wearing a bullet-proof vest at a pro-gun rally was an over reaction, that allowing overtime and penalties to be traded away under WorkChoices was a political mistake, and finally that he shouldn't have said publicly that he would review his leadership position when he turned 64."