the..national broadband..ADGENDA...seeks to use fuzzy logic..to reverse the error of privatisation..of what is a community resource[worse a SERVICE...as basic today...as schools]

everyone has the right to hear..or be heard...but because of commercial intrests...that means to be seen/and to see..has been restricted..by enron..paternalistic slowing-down of the tubes..carrying our vital info

we should be living in the age of plenty...costs to exchange and store info has never been more cheap...but instead..costs go through the roof...as the service gets ever more slow..due to proffiteering..of the plunder...stolen from us all..

just as bankers stole control of the federal reserve...charging intrest[ursury]..to govt issueing its own moneies...then allowing bankfees..instead of intrest..on our meager savings..

[let alone the tax...on wages,,[when only income}..meaning..proffit made..;sans value adding]..is rightfully income...[wages is not income...yet ignorance only makes it taxable

govt neded to install..INCOME[not wage tax]..to pay-off..the ursury..to the bankers...there is so much colluded deceit in all these issues..[like removing death-DUTIES...and taxing our basics instead]...and soon the big-new tax on carbon...when we got real polutants to get rid off

but back to the nbn...all being made more slow..via high-definition...clogging up the pipes...just so those with energy hungry..big screen ego..tv..can watch their fill of murder and mayhem...and cooking shows and sport

well sport..im sick of paying for all that..its bad enough govt opens the tax payer..cash-trough..to these sporting elites...[and media mogals..just to get payback at voting time..by the sport-club handing out how to vote for my party at election time..and the media giving us opnion instead of news

lets not forget the gift of specrum...the broad spectrum..clogging our internet...as well as hogging..all that free-to-air..broadcasting spectrum.../cutting out the competion...

as well as holding their selective franchise..[if you doudt that then..see the fruit of the loins...of the media moguls..buying ten]

its a sure..'gamble'...because its a sure thing..
set in train by their patriarches...way back when the heavey spectrum was being planed...bah...hope you enjoy this user pays...as your tv costs ever more to run...than it cost

this nbn...lert the user..[pay]
but let basic acces be free...[we are paying for it]
not you rich tax..;minimisers'..lol..avoiders more like it

multinationals should be paying double taxation..in both juristictions

INDIVIDUAL! I challenge, one of the most one sided and biased people I have met you.
Not only to prove I am biased toward my party, but prove to me, PLEASE, you have any idea any understanding of how child like your post is.
How can you, come please, not remember my threads questioning my party, my Prime Minister.
How did you miss my thread on NSW power without glory.
Labors first term mistakes
I can not mate credit you with any understanding any idea of open debate.
Surely after re reading your last post and mine you have to concede you charge me with your crime.
Others who charge me with one eyed bias, please considerer befor getting rid of the family dog.
The house hold IQ average could drop markedly if you do.

So we want a full cost benefit analysis in private business terms, of a government infrastructure program whose development stretches for a decade and provides non-commercial service benefits and social benefits.

So name the genius economist / accountant who will tell us reliably how to calculate all the figures involved for the next 10 years plus extra decades of planned usage. Give us a run-down on what future costs will be, in the context of GFC recovery/non-recovery, climate change factors, movements of international currency, and "known" / estimated take up rates at different projected levels for each of the component traffic, commercial and governmental. Get the same genius to advise on the business case benefits related to things such as health service improvements, education improvements, as well as regional business productivity improvements over the 10 or 20 year periods, and increased efficiencies arising from enabled services which are not yet known, allowing for rises and falls in peer to peer operations, entertainment services, savings in transport costs, pollution reduction and savings in housing costs arising from relocation of remote workers

Then ask the same genius to tell us what the Reserve Bank will do with interest rates next week, hope he or she will get it better than last month, and ask them to throw in the winner of next Tuesday's Melbourne Cup.

They've got a chance with the cup -- there are limited runners.

CBAs for large government infrastructure projects of this size and extent are a wank. All you can do is look at some projected benefits, some projected costs, and then toss a bloody coin.

See http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/09/17/cost-benefit-delusions-of-the-nbn/comment-page-2/ for a few details.

"So we want a full cost benefit analysis"?

No, all we want is to stop the NBN in order to protect our children from its bad influence and to allow us to keep our copper connection.
As this is not essentially a matter of money, we have no real need for a cost-analysis, but if that's what will get sense into the heads of ministers, so be it.

The opposition has suggested the most sensible alternative - that fibre would run to the exchanges, at the end of every street, then those residents who wish to have it, for whatever reason, will take it from there. Though unfair, I would even concede that they do so at the tax-payer's expense, but even that would not satisfy the government - they are determined to force the NBN on us and even take us to jail if we refuse to have it installed in our homes, or perhaps even shoot us when we attempt to obstruct the workmen on our own property.

The opposition (which I don't side with on other matters) is using legitimate democratic tools - should they use machine guns instead?

What I find amusing in the whole NBN debate is that people who know and understand networks know that fiber to each house is far from optimal. on the other hand, those who know very little, think fiber is the answer to everything, and on top of it then think that the engineers and technicians are Luddites.

Contrary to common understanding fiber is not necessarily faster than copper (CAT6 cables routinely run 1GB/s and can now reach 10GB/s), and unlike copper fiber has some serious drawbacks that are expensive to rectify such as:

Fiber cables are notoriously fragile, and a single knock can fracture the fibers requiring the entire cable to be replaced. As result the Fiber cables are far more expensive to install, as they need specialized handling, and termination.

Fiber cables only carry light signals and unlike copper cabling, cannot carry power with the signal. The obvious result is that the home owner has to ensure that there is power to the media converter / modem to ensure that he has any communication outside the house.

For health and safety reasons the NBN now has to supply UPS battery power to these modems, at a huge cost and just the maintenance of these battery supplies is going to cost an estimated $150 000 000 p.a.

Considering the Tasmanian experience where only 10% of those with access to the NBN were actually prepared to pay for the 100MB/s, whilst the other 90% preferred either the slower cheaper packages or simply to remain with the slower, but still cheaper and perfectly adequate copper connection.

The only reason Labor is blocking a cost benefit analysis is that then everyone will see that Labor's jewel in the crown is another complete waste of money.

Let me see,yes it is 9klm to the end of my street.
Well not really but that is how far from the exchange I am.
It floods after rain, sometimes 3 days before the phone works.
My fellow non Australians, after all non city dwellers are not aren't they?
May be 50 klm from it.
INDIVIDUAL, stand by your words, show me My bias tell me why you have none.