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The Forum > General Discussion > Racism - the type that is a problem.

Racism - the type that is a problem.

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I want to give you some real live examples of the type of racism and discrimination that our Government ignores.

At the Administrative Decisions Tribunal hearing when the Selective Schools Unit (SSU) was being cross examined in relation to IQ tests provided by parents to support applications for placement in Selective Schools the Leader of the SSU said in relation to the release of a chart that showed the IQ equivalents:

"Q. Because the reason that you gave why the chart couldn’t be released, or the reason that the Department gave and I think that you gave some evidence about this, was that you said that people could somehow manipulate their IQ scores if they came from interstate of overseas.
A. Yes.

Q. But you’d agree with me, wouldn’t you, that if you wanted to get into a selective school you’d just submit an IQ test with the highest mark. You would do that whatever. You don’t need a particular IQ to be aiming for.
A. There are people who don’t know. For some people 120 is a very high IQ. It’s certainly the bottom of the gifted range. A lot of parents think that if their children show an IQ of 120 then they’ll get into James Ruse. The fact is, they wont>

Q. Why shouldn’t they know that? What would be the problem with them knowing that?
A. the whole point of that is that unfortunately we know exactly how scrupulously honest our registered psychologists are but we’re getting reports from Bahrain and anywhere else.

Q. Does your chart have something to say about that, does it say somewhere on it that IQ tests from Bahrain score differently or –
A. No, but I’m saying we can’t be sure that the psychological society, if such a thing exists in Bahrain, will not allow their psychologists to take a fairly large bribe to provide an IQ score that is commensurate with the thing"

That is racism of the worst kind
Posted by Jolanda, Sunday, 4 February 2007 10:15:58 AM
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It might well be racism of the worse kind but perhaps someone is
well aware of what goes on in the real world.
Generally when someone says something like that they have seen it
happen but don't have the proof and could never get proof.

No reason why another test could not be peformed.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 5 February 2007 1:09:29 PM
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Bazz, it would make no difference if another test was performed because people with power are allowed to use discretion regardless of their prejudices and attitude, and power easily shifts from racism to discrimination.

There are many instances when people are in positions of power making decisions that impact on others where their prejudices can rule and they are allowed to use discretion without question or challenge.

Another example of this type of ‘discretion’ being abused was given when my family took a matter to the Administrative Decision Tribunal. When giving evidence at the hearing in relation to IQ tests presented by parents to support applications for Selective Schools- the Leader of the Selective Schools Unit said:

“We have told parents that they can give us other evidence of academic merit and IQ’s can be interpreted as another piece of academic merit …….

-the selection committee can say, all right, I will incorporate this IQ score into the profile score because it’s a piece of evidence of academic merit. Another selection committee will say, no, even though it’s under two years old and its’ this, and that and other thing, we won’t incorporate it because really this is a piece of evidence that somebody can go out and pay for to get. They can get another bite of the cherry and that it not equitable”.

I can’t help but wonder how equitable and fair the attitude that has been presented is? If people who are making decisions that can impact on a child’s education and future can discount IQ reports based on their racist beliefs, negative attitude towards Psychologists and thier negative attitude towards those that have paid to have their child tested by a psychologist then how can that be seen as equitable, impartial, unbiased and fair?
Posted by Jolanda, Monday, 5 February 2007 7:04:00 PM
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Jolanda,
It would be difficult to sustain the argument that the Selective Schools Unit practices racism.

Anyone who has recently attented any functions at James Ruse,Baulkham Hills or North Sydney Girls would be able to testify that the number of children who derive from Chinese ,Korean & Indians backgrounds at such schools is of a much higher proportion than those races make up in/of the general pop.So if they are stacking the deck -it is not with children from the traditional elites.

Though I do agree that the selectors seem to pay little if know attention to outside evidence -despite what their official press releases say.( I was actually told “oh we don’t consider such things” by one Selective Schools Officer..)
Posted by Horus, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 5:45:27 PM
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Horus. Racism can be directed at different groups. The group that is the least represented in selective schools would have to be those of darker skin, being those of Aboriginal background and those of middle eastern background.

I have heard some very negative attitudes presented by those in the Education Department in relation to Aboriginal children and children of middle eastern background.

I do believe that there is racism at play in education.
Posted by Jolanda, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 7:00:35 PM
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Let me tell you another story, it happened to my son. My children are of Lebanese background.

I was called to the school office as my son had been accused of harassment and name calling. They told him that he could be expelled. Problem was that my son didn’t know what they were talking about. When I asked them to give me the date and time that this was alleged to have happened as my son clearly didn’t know what they were on about, I was told that it didn’t matter the date and that they had Teachers statements and other statements that said my son did it. When I challenged them for the date and information so that my son could defend himself they eventually gave me the details. Problem was that they should have checked their roll before providing the date as on the day that they say that my son harassed this other student in English class and for which they say they had teachers statements to support it was my son who did it, my son was at home sick and that was confirmed by the school roll.

On parent teacher interviews the acting Deputy principal was telling the parents of my sons friends (Year 7) to keep their children away from my son as he is a trouble-maker.

Problem is that my son is a polite and respectful student and he has never done anything wrong.

The schools accusations were part of a witch hunt and a desire to discredit and vilify my son and it is easy to do because he is of Lebanese background. Other people just automatically believe that he must be bad because of his background and that is so grossly racist and unfair.

This is the most damaging type of racism.
Posted by Jolanda, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 8:11:15 PM
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Jolanda I have been accused of racism by a student who said you have given XXXX a high mark, my work is a similar standard why don't I get the same mark. [The astute reader will detect a semi confession of collaboration or plagarism] The passage of time has revealed the truth - which was - the complainant was a good student and her friend was actually an outstanding student.

I have never determined whether the complainant genuinely believed she was equal to her friend or whether she was haggling.
Posted by billie, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 8:18:11 PM
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billie. The passage of time could also say that they were both good students but one was more highly regarded by the teacher and as a result was more successful.

An astute reader can detect an attitude similar to the one that I spoke to above in my post.
Posted by Jolanda, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 8:26:02 PM
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Jolanda... the facts are that the quasi-religious far right and associated zealots have chosen those of "Middle Eastern" appearance(s) to target...is that so unlike the "South East Asian" groups vilified in the early 1970's ?

Because it is so much easier to 'other' group/nationality/race/creed or whatever, than it is to actually investigate the truths, this is why the media, and public perception goes down this sad little track of history's laneway. Too difficult to see the other persons side of the story. Let's just take the media pill of 'truth' and swallow it night after night at 6.30 PM.

Sure there is always, always, almost every time a certain element of any ethnic group that will have persons who identify with that group who will not be the most savoury - that is not just peculiar to say Lebanese Moslems, Serbians, Chinese gangs or Bundy Rum swilling Yobbo Ockers for what it is worth.

What apparently is being missed in all of these emotive charged Cronulla type situations, is the avoidance of the underlying social problems that large cities, their lack of empathy of fellow beings through close proximity of many groups causes.

I believe the media was in a larger degree responsible for fanning the flames of discontent - simply because it would drum up ratings and readerships/viewings.

We saw earlier in our collective history a similar phenomena at Eureka in 1854. The White Australia Policy. Chinese and other ethnic miners were initially the targets, the Crown being held accountable through the lease fees and Miners licensing, which was skillfully manipulated into the rallying call to arms. Many choose to forget the facts that Poles, Russians, Serbs, Jews, escaped Black African slaves, and many other ethinic groups were represented in the events of Ballarat.

Skillful use of media, public perceptions and prejudices were the order of the day - a practice still in vogue today. The White Australia Policy is being reborn again, with its jingoistic call to arms of a Christian Jihaad carried out in the name of protecting our "way of life". Which is what exactly...?
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 8:50:44 PM
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Ted Bundy the serial killer had a very high IQ number. A high IQ doesnt guarantee emotional stability or the ability to solve problems using common sense.

A person with a high IQ can be just as wrong in what they think is the truth as a person without a high IQ.
Posted by sharkfin, Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:19:14 PM
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sharkfin. What are you trying to say by mentioning a serial killer with a high IQ in this thread. Is this another attitude form of prejudice, vilification and discrimination?

Killers can come in all shapes and sizes, nationalities, religions and levels of IQ - So what! That doesn't mean that you discount every person and treat them all with less respect and regard than you would treat those that are the criminals.

Funny how those that are accused of criminal activity or wrong doing are always, not only immediately given the benefit of the doubt, they are supported and protected whilst the rest of the public and those that whistleblow and/or complain are crucified.

Maybe it might be that I have been around alot of High IQ but that just doesn't seem right to me.
Posted by Jolanda, Friday, 9 February 2007 7:12:08 AM
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Yolanda,

I would think my statement was the opposite of predudice towards one group being better than another; by pointing out that having a high IQ does not automatically make this group any better human beings than any other group.
Posted by sharkfin, Sunday, 11 February 2007 2:30:11 PM
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sharkfin, Who said that somebody with a high IQ was better?

What was being spoken about was fair treatment and procedural fairness for all
Posted by Jolanda, Sunday, 11 February 2007 8:48:34 PM
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Jolanda, Given that you dont see your son in the school setting, perhaps he really is a little pr!ck. There are a lot of parents who have big trouble with the image of their little darling as anything other than angelic. The fact that he has lebanese ancestry doesnt excuse him from being a trouble-maker anymore than it will make him one. Make sure that you are not looking through rose-coloured glasses before throwing hefty accusations.
Posted by Country Gal, Sunday, 11 February 2007 9:29:27 PM
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Country Girl. My son is not a little prick. He is a polite and respectful student and all his school reports will support as will everybody who has ever had to deal with him. He has high morals and he is a respectful and helpful student and citizen. He is a good role model and leader.

But I honestly wouldn't blame my son if he turned into a big prick given the attitudes towards him.

A similar attitude that people have towards those of dark background is had towards children/teenagers.

People just see them all as scum. Then they wonder why our youth is so mixed up and is so angry and aggressive. It seems that it doesn't matter how good you are, you are going to be treated like sh.t anyway.

There is a terrible attitude problem in society and it is sending us backwards.

My son did nothing wrong, he was targeted and that Country girl is a fact. As a human being, he deserves to be treated fairly in Education, regardless of the negative and unfair attitudes towards him.
Posted by Jolanda, Monday, 12 February 2007 5:41:22 AM
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Does this sound like a little prick to you?

Year 7 – No school report – left to be home-schooled after the being systematically targeted, victimized and vilified for years in the Public School system.

Year 8. Catholic School - Half year. Student is a quiet, co-operative member of the class. He is regular in attendance and is always well groomed. He has represented the school in Soccer.

End of year. Student is a particularly co-operative and helpful member of his roll call class. He is reliable and prompt in dealing with administration matters. He has made a valued contribution to the life of the College through his participation in Mathematics, Science, Computer, English and Writing competitions and Grade soccer.

Year 9 - Half year- Student is a quiet and conscientious member of his Pastoral Care class who can be relied upon to wear his uniform well and to listen to all instructions. He interacts well with his peers, is respected by all class members and is a positive contributor to the college.

End of year - Student has continued to be a quiet consistent student and has achieved some good results in his studies. He is a punctual, well-groomed and polite member of our Pastoral class who can be relied upon to set a good example for his peers.

Year 10 Half year - Student is a capable student but sometimes appears to lack motivation. He was nominated for the position of Class Captain but declined this opportunity. He is courteous, well groomed and punctual.

End of year - Student has the potential to be a fine student at this College. He is prompt in fulfilling his administrative responsibilities and he is generous in giving to fundraisers and charitable collections. He wears his uniform well and complies with the grooming requirements of the college.
Posted by Jolanda, Monday, 12 February 2007 7:01:41 AM
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