James, please actually read what I wrote, instead of 'interpreting' what I wrote. You're attempting to present a skewered version of what I wrote, for reasons known only to yourself.

The topic is about "why do we demonise men who are honest about their sexual needs?". I replied that because there's such a marked propensity towards physical violence amongst many males, this means that they often ALL, which includes the innocent ones, get tarnished with a similar brush. In other words, it's one of the reasons why "men who are honest about their sexual needs are demonised". Do you understand it now? Hopefully, yes. It may not be the answer you want or like, but it's 100% on topic, relevant and worthy.

It is interesting to read Clarisse Thorns ideas on the issue of male sexuality,

<The stud vs. slut dichotomy is worth discussing, but it has one flaw: it entirely ignores the word “creep,” whose function appears to be restricting male sexuality to a limited, contradictory set of behaviors.>

<As one masculinity thread commenter named Tim observes: “The only way for a guy to guarantee that he won’t be called ‘creepy’ is to suppress entirely his sexuality,>

<You’ve caught on that it’s tricky for men to figure out how to deliver both of these things you need, that you don’t have a lot of good direction to give to fellas about it, and that neither does anyone else.”>

It is noticable that she has difficulty in finding men who are willing to discuss this issue.

<very little mainstream acknowledgement of the problems of masculinity. The primary factor in that silence is that normative cis men themselves tend to be flatly unwilling to discuss gender/sex issues>

<But this shift in awareness about gender issues faced by women has not been accompanied by a widespread understanding of gender issues faced by men.>

In the third part of Clarrise's musings, she wrote;

<And if we can reject the Oppression Olympics for just one minute and stop thinking about who’s got it worse, it becomes clear that the advantages and drawbacks associated with being both male and female are intertwined. The two systems reinforce, and cannot function without, each other. The gender binary may not hurt everyone equally, but it hurts everyone.>

<I’ve had an enormous number of experiences trying to discuss feminism/sex/gender with men in which the men tensed, bristled, and closed me out. I don’t think it was always because those guys couldn’t stand the thought of losing their privilege, either. I think a lot of dudes have been led to feel that they have no place in gender discussions — that those discussions will always be about what men are doing wrong>

Still appears to be a bit lopsided, only talking about what men are doing right. Where is it possible for men to reflect on what women are doing?

JamesH
There is a difference between 'creepiness' and being honest about sexual needs. Maybe there are a few men who do lack skills of respectful negotiation, but women know the difference.

It is all about approach. I appreciate the difficulty men face in the pressure to make the first move and many men may not possess the skills, but I am not sure why even in this, women are to blame if that is your suggestion.

It is about mutual consent. Men can be honest about their needs and why shouldn't they be. What women are asking is they don't force those needs.

"... but 'male-ness' involves the warrior spirit and "newsflash" the violence that most men are capable of is to PROTECT both themselves and the weaker sex (females) from OTHER males who would do them harm."

I agree Al, often it is another male who comes to protect a women in difficult cirumstances if she is lucky, and it is grealty appreciated. What women ask is this warrior spirit not be turned on them, that we all treat each other with respect.

Look at marriage - men go into marriage with the traditional buck's night to bemoan the end of an era of freedom, which if that is what men really believe, why get married. Marriage is perceived by some as a trap by women to snare men into their nest. Most women don't want to be with a man who has to be trapped but desire only mutual love and mutual desire to be together. Anything else is false and doomed to fail.

Women are demonised when they leave their husbands as being overly-feminised or selfish and heartless. By contrast, according to some on OLO, men who leave their wives do it because their wives are selfish or heartless and don't understand their sexual needs so off they go with a usually younger model.

Women can't win a trick. They are demonised if they leave and demonised if he leaves.

There are inequities for both but to say only men are demonised reamins unconvincing.

Clarrise, uses two abbrevitations that I am not familar with.

Cis means on the same side.

Het, in russian means No or in swedish Hot, but I suspect it is short for heterosexual.

WTF?
James – certainly a controversial topic.

I would like to add this.
I think one of the reasons why men are demonised is because some women, particularly in the teen years and early twenties, seem to make such bad choices when it comes to men.
If I think back to my university days and early working life many of my female friends would often reach the completely opposite point of view about a bloke to the one I formed.
Decent and/or shy blokes I suggested they may find interesting where “creeps” and “losers” and the obvious tools were “exciting”,” different” and “out there”.

This lead to tears and hurt and sometimes to unwanted life-altering experiences.

Maybe some women still feel the pain of following some evolutionary instinct that only served a temporary need but caused longer term regret and hurt.

I wonder if others have noticed anything similar?