R0bert, Is it wrong for me to express my thought on a forum regarding the laws were are bound to obey? Yes I complaint, another weakness of mine. I believe is is good to look at thing from a different aspect, that's how and why I joined this forum.

I am constantly judged, yes. Why I choose not to share my story and details is because of how deep it goes. It's a story of more then half a life time. Who has time for that.

Judged, because I look the way I do and behave the way I do, because I like to make others happy. I have accepted this fact & try to be as careful as possible being I am on my own. Now I've got all the dept watching me, so I do have a good sense of security :)

With my views and thoughts, I am not judging people. I cannot judge anyone I have not spoken to as everyone has reasons for their behavior and actions. Why they are alcoholics lies in their past. Something they have been put through that hurt them that much, and because they don't understand why it happened, they try to cover the hurt and pain by doing the wrong things, instead of working to fix the problem. There is always someone/thing else to put the blame.

I express here because I want change, I don't know how it is going to happen, but I know by expressing my hopes and wishes, it is a small start. Who doesn't want a perfect world? I want my children and children's children to live in a better world. Apart from everyday life, I have decided to dedicate my life on working as much as I can to make a change, however small it might be.

jinny I'm drifting off topic but it might be useful.

"Is it wrong for me to express my thought on a forum regarding the laws were are bound to obey?" - not at all but please don't be too upset if others (Ok just me this time) think that you are being inconsistant. Some will attack in the nastiest possible terms just because they can, I will try and voice disagreements more respectfully than that.

"I believe it is good to look at thing from a different aspect, that's how and why I joined this forum." - me to. I've learned a lot here.

I'd echo sentiments made earlier (I think by belly) to be careful about what you share online. Never share so much that you can be readily identified by it unless you want the detail in the public space and to be associated with you. Some people are very good at putting clues together and some are very nasty (hopefully not always the same ones). Web search engines continue to get more and more sophisticated and I assume that they will eventually be able to do well at collecting peoples posts from different sources by grammer, common spelling mistakes, snippets of personal detail shared etc. Never share what will really hurt if thrown back at you by someone trying to hurt.

R0bert

As someone who has a lot of experience with alcoholism through family and friends (most of whom are now recovering alcoholics), and their friends from Alcoholics Anonymous, I’d have to say that some of the comments on this thread highlight the need for more education on this topic.

For example:

“I would suggest it would be fair to assume that the majority of alcoholic parents do not hold a full time job.” - rehctub

Not from what I’ve observed. In my experience, vast majority of alcoholics are seemly average people with full time jobs. If someone is incapable of holding a full time job, then hard drugs are usually involved as well. Personally, the only exception I can think of to this, was a Vietnam vet I knew of who was on a disability pension and drank all day every day.

“Let's face it, if they did, how would they find time to get smashed...” - rehctub

They do it after work. Drinkers don’t need to become paralytic, or start drinking first thing in the morning to be considered an alcoholic.

“...let alone be fit and ready for the next days work.” - rehctub

Alcohol tolerance. The more you drink, the less you feel hung over the next morning. Even on the odd occasion where they may feel hung over, it’s seen as ‘worth it’.

jinny asks: “How do we educate the parents that are not doing the right thing to change?”

You can’t. Alcoholics not only need to acknowledge the problem themselves, but want to do something about it as well. The more you try to convince an alcoholic of their problem, the more they’ll drink. It’s a catch 22.

Reducing welfare benefits would do squat. All it would mean is that the kids got even less than what they already see.

Unfortunately there are no reactive measures we can take, only proactive. Education from an early age is the only solution I can see that would have any effect, and getting rid of these stereotypes about who alcoholics are would be a good staring point.

The hardest part I've heard with AA is admitting they have a problem. Usually something life threatening has to happen before alcoholics start seeking for help. Even this, they do not do by themselves, they usually are given no more option, and thus forced to go for AA meetings. Some change, some do not. Mind over matter.

I have heard them. They are all similar: insane, delusional, sick, tired, unhappy. Yes they might have gotten better since they managed to stop, but are they happy? They are happier... They cannot stop blaming themselves for their past. They blame all the mistakes, why the left they're children, why the abused others on the effects and the power that alcohol had over them. They treat AA as a religion almost, which I realized, leads to believes. Alcoholics, are a result of abuse and self-blame. They could not deal with the reality of how things were and choose alcohol as a solution, which resulted in a lot more hurt to anyone close to them.

Have you ever believe in something so strongly, that it happens to you, and you feel like it's a miracle? The damage that has been done to our species have been done over many centuries, we can't expect it to correct itself in years. Money and power seems to control our society. Look at the nations that still live without much of those, they are a lot more harmonious and happy. When you speak to them, even though they might be going through a hard time, they are still happy, because they appreciate life. Usually it's always the government that is effective them, apart from that, they are very happy people, very good people. Simple, down to earth, genuine, kind and caring people.

We play our roles in our lifetimes, trying to make a difference, trying to survive. As long as we know we tried our best to make a change, we should feel good about ourselves. We know we tried. We know we care. We know we want the problems fixed.

Thank you AJ. Thus the commencement of the thread [there is usually one alcoholic or more in a family or family tree], the odd aunty or uncle in mine. I have known and know many alcoholics through family work, friends and friends of friends over 40 years. There are alcoholics who do waste benefits on themselves rather than their children and have agreed with one of Rechtub's points.

Although all of the alcoholics I have known have worked their set routine hours or shift work preferring 4am or 5am starts, home, drink, early to bed, in order to limit their intake and keep it the same pattern throughout the year. Lookout if they miss or are disrupted with their own quota or routine at any time though [no judgements just lightening up the subject here]! Same as any addiction/habit.

Kindest thanks AJ.

I am mainly seeking suggestions to assist children if you wish to add any?

You have provided highly intelligent and positive comments Jinny.

I greatly admire your giving nature regarding the youth and parents you assist most of all. I hope many people are putting themselves out there as you are. I look forward to learning from you on other threads.

Enjoy your week Jinny!