A topic close to my heart for many years as I have witnessed various childrens painful lives, living with two alcoholic parents. Any suggestions people? Perhaps ideas regarding further genetic studies and treatment for alcoholics, particularly those with children, concepts to assist kids through their primary and secondary educational years [ie clothing provided by schools free of charge, free lunches, free dental, milk, bus fares, free programs to build up their self esteem, more emotional support, support given with their home life, while still living in the home], Any suggestions people?

It is a world pandemic. We do not realized how serious this problem is as most of us are not well informed about it. You think alcohol is the problem. It is A problem, not THE problem. I mean, some of us have already given up on this planet. People's tax money is going into research to find other planets to live on similar to earth. They've actually found one now 20 light years away.

I can't believe how some humans have given up hope on our planet and the life on this planet. We are suppose to love life of all sorts, no matter what. Yes, children are getting abused by alcoholic parents which results in them being mentally and emotionally scarred for life. They are getting abuse with the nutrition they are given.

I saw on a kids cartoon program today, it showed how a kid was addicted to candy bars because when they eat it, they get a high happy feeling, and when it wears out, they feel down, thus resulting them eating more junk.

If you read my previous post, there are links to research on this matter. The government and society have to all work together in order for the children to be safe.

I notice in this country people don't like sticking their noses into other private lives. That itself is not caring. A child might be getting abuse in your street, but instead of investigating, most will think, it's not my problem. Well it is!

Some try to teach kids to be independent and fend for themselves at such a young age. If you didn't want to look after your kids the way kids should be looked after, why have them? Subjecting them to misery, hurt, frustration at such a young age. Those are alcoholics and criminals in the making. and the cycle just goes on, and it will continue going on until we WANT to make a change.

Drugs or grog or just dysfunctional,we have a problem.
It seems more children are in foster care here than ever before.
May be its best may be its only short time while parents get it together but it is frightening.
I can not find an answer,the children I helped bring up had a better start than they would have at home, but who do we help first parents or kids.
Heart tels me kids, brain too but maybe in doing it that way we can help both.

jinny "I notice in this country people don't like sticking their noses into other private lives. That itself is not caring. A child might be getting abuse in your street, but instead of investigating, most will think, it's not my problem. Well it is!"

I'm not wanting to pick on you but have you thought about the apparent contrast between that and some of your comments on the thread regarding you own situation?

Individually it's personally risky to directly intervene and when the government does so on our behalf there are concerns of too much government intervention and the risk of the government seemingly being to heavy handed (eg criminal charges where they might not be the best solution).

R0bert

I would suggest it would be fair to assume that the majority of alcoholic parents do not hold a full time job.

Let's face it, if they did, how would they find time to get smashed, let alone be fit and ready for the next days work.

So, my solution would be to limit the spending of welfare recipients by way of a debit card that allows for say only 'a portion' of the proceeds to be withdrawn as cash, with which they could do as they please. Grog, smokes, gambling, movies etc. The balance could only be used to purchase acceptable goods. (to be determined)

Let's face it, welfare is there for the well being of the kids. After all, one without kids, i.e pensioners, singles, don't generally receive sufficient funds to get smashed and if they do, then so beit,we can tackle this one later.

The system here supports the jobless, homeless, parents with children who do not work. A lot of these parents we're talking about are so dependent on the system they have no drive to make an income themselves nor make a better lives for their children. Mostly due to the lack of knowledge. They do not know any better, maybe it's because they were brought up the same way by their parents, involved around drugs and alcohol which results them living in some fantasy world. They don't live in reality. Don't want to accept how society works now and blames the whole word on the mistakes in their life. So the kids have to suffer.

Why can't the government have more checks on parents like these where they should be able to tell the child is not being looked after and is in an unhealthy environment. It only takes a few visits to be able to do this, talking to children 1 on 1 especially. There should be more school counselors should put more effort into children with behavioral issues.

In China they have enforced the 1 child per family law. How would we like that? Here even kids are getting pregnant due to the lack of care, abused, mental torment they have. Thy don't care about their bodies, and think by having some lying stranger who wants to make use of their body, that will take away their pain. How many young mothers under the age of 16 I know since I've lived in Oz is shocking!

Still, if we look at the brighter side, most of society have good families. Look at the parks and you see good parents, spending quality time with their kids. I think the government have improved the situation with alcoholic parents a bit and it will get better. There will always be a minority of the unfortunate ones. That is where we should play our role going out of our way to help if we can.

Robert: Do not judge someone you do not know. If you have read my comments carefully, I admitted to my mistake. I told the police myself that I had left my kids in bed. I have been investigated on for child abuse and there was no abuse found. I made a stupid mistake because of my irresponsibility, and now I that know, I am a better person and parent.

Life is a learning experience and we learn, so we can grow. Adults are so stubborn as I council some of them. The kids are so much easier to get through. I really don't see how we can change the parents thinking as most of them are set in their ways no matter how much you try to explain to them why it is not right. How do you tell an abusive parent they are being abusive without them barking at you and telling you to MYOB?

We can only hope that everyone WANTS to make their future a brighter one. We cannot force people to change, it has to come from within. Children are to young to make decisions of trying to get out of an abusive upbringing until they are around 11-12. By that time it is not too late for them to change their lives around. I live near a Youth centre, and speak to the youth there. Many of them have turn their lives around. It wasn't easy, but with the help of the community, they are in a better place now, because they wanted it bad enough.

jinny "Do not judge someone you do not know." - that's part of what I'm talking about.

On the one hand you make the valid point that we should stick our noses in but you also object to people doing so when it's you whose choices are being challenged. I do get how hard it is to always get the balance right and I've tried to stay away from judging you over the other issue.

What I'm pointing out is that we do have this conflict over interfering and being seen to be judging people when we don't know the whole story and we are not in the other persons shoes.

There are really clear cases where children are suffering from neglect or direct abuse and then there is a whole range of things where it's not so clear.

Is the parent who allows their child to become obese significantly less of an abuser than the those who don't feed the child well enough (but do keep them above starvation levels)? How many of us would intervene where the parents are setting their children up for a lifetime of struggles with obesity and associated health consequences.

R0bert

You are all the most giving people and excellent points raised.

The point is Robert, no issues are ever black and white, there are always extenuating circumstances and degrees of incidents. Every parent [as you would know being a parent] will make mistakes [myself included as one-offs never to be repeated] through life. Whether it be I drove too fast in the car with children in the vehicle on a couple of occasions when they were younger, overtook a car risking their lives on another, said something hurtful, we learn from these incidents.

I see the points you are raising, yet Jinny had already bravely commenced a thread and bared her soul to OLO on whatever her issue was and as she stated, has already learned from it, as most parents do, minus addictions.

Back to your point Robert, I believe it is every adult's responsibility to address both abuse and neglect in children as Jinny pointed out.

Rechtub, an excellent point, limiting welfare benefits or rationing them in order to decrease an alcoholic's spending on him or herself, and going to the children.

This point I reckon leads to others made regarding children in the past. A court or family appointed body to execute or direct the funds directly to the children who should be receiving them for their basic needs. Ie a Dad's or Mum's income going directly to the children meeting their needs, as opposed to not receiving their parent's income or benefits [which is supposed to be given to the children].

I agree whole heartedly with "we are unique", the payments from centrelink should only be going to the children. How do you enforce that though? How do you stop the parents abusing the system and the children? People talk all the time. Hardly anyone talks the talk, and walks the walk. Everyone wants a better life, ut how many are actually doing something to help change society? Most of the social, departmental workers do not really care. They do it as a job, because it's their mean of income.

Today I saw a few kid(s), under 12 walking to school by themselves. I don't see anything wrong if they are educated enough by their parents what to do. The streets are in a safe area. According to the law, the parents should be charged? All these laws, came up because of someone else's mistakes. Which the rest of society have to pay for.

Where I live now I see many responsible and proud parents. Before I was living(in Australia) somewhere not so developed. The kids there were not looked after well. They were brought up very roughly. A 5 year old child having a Mohawk hair style in school. I believe in fundamentalism and freedom, but letting children that young do whatever they want? No wonder when they become older they have no sense of responsibility whatsoever. I see them. All they want to do is have fun and enjoy life without hard work. Depending on the system to support them.

How do we educate the parents that are not doing the right thing to change? Is there even a slight chance of that happening now? We should work with the younger generation so the difference will be made for the future.

R0bert: I rather not waste energy and time on stubborn judgmental humans. Thanks for your thoughts

jinny perhaps you should read my comments and your own a bit more carefully.

You seem very willing to judge others who you don't know yet get all bothered when you consider yourself judged. You complain about the government involving itself when it's considered that your children might be at risk yet attack others for not not been keen enough to intervene when they might be concerned that children are at risk.

R0bert

R0bert, Is it wrong for me to express my thought on a forum regarding the laws were are bound to obey? Yes I complaint, another weakness of mine. I believe is is good to look at thing from a different aspect, that's how and why I joined this forum.

I am constantly judged, yes. Why I choose not to share my story and details is because of how deep it goes. It's a story of more then half a life time. Who has time for that.

Judged, because I look the way I do and behave the way I do, because I like to make others happy. I have accepted this fact & try to be as careful as possible being I am on my own. Now I've got all the dept watching me, so I do have a good sense of security :)

With my views and thoughts, I am not judging people. I cannot judge anyone I have not spoken to as everyone has reasons for their behavior and actions. Why they are alcoholics lies in their past. Something they have been put through that hurt them that much, and because they don't understand why it happened, they try to cover the hurt and pain by doing the wrong things, instead of working to fix the problem. There is always someone/thing else to put the blame.

I express here because I want change, I don't know how it is going to happen, but I know by expressing my hopes and wishes, it is a small start. Who doesn't want a perfect world? I want my children and children's children to live in a better world. Apart from everyday life, I have decided to dedicate my life on working as much as I can to make a change, however small it might be.

jinny I'm drifting off topic but it might be useful.

"Is it wrong for me to express my thought on a forum regarding the laws were are bound to obey?" - not at all but please don't be too upset if others (Ok just me this time) think that you are being inconsistant. Some will attack in the nastiest possible terms just because they can, I will try and voice disagreements more respectfully than that.

"I believe it is good to look at thing from a different aspect, that's how and why I joined this forum." - me to. I've learned a lot here.

I'd echo sentiments made earlier (I think by belly) to be careful about what you share online. Never share so much that you can be readily identified by it unless you want the detail in the public space and to be associated with you. Some people are very good at putting clues together and some are very nasty (hopefully not always the same ones). Web search engines continue to get more and more sophisticated and I assume that they will eventually be able to do well at collecting peoples posts from different sources by grammer, common spelling mistakes, snippets of personal detail shared etc. Never share what will really hurt if thrown back at you by someone trying to hurt.

R0bert

As someone who has a lot of experience with alcoholism through family and friends (most of whom are now recovering alcoholics), and their friends from Alcoholics Anonymous, I’d have to say that some of the comments on this thread highlight the need for more education on this topic.

For example:

“I would suggest it would be fair to assume that the majority of alcoholic parents do not hold a full time job.” - rehctub

Not from what I’ve observed. In my experience, vast majority of alcoholics are seemly average people with full time jobs. If someone is incapable of holding a full time job, then hard drugs are usually involved as well. Personally, the only exception I can think of to this, was a Vietnam vet I knew of who was on a disability pension and drank all day every day.

“Let's face it, if they did, how would they find time to get smashed...” - rehctub

They do it after work. Drinkers don’t need to become paralytic, or start drinking first thing in the morning to be considered an alcoholic.

“...let alone be fit and ready for the next days work.” - rehctub

Alcohol tolerance. The more you drink, the less you feel hung over the next morning. Even on the odd occasion where they may feel hung over, it’s seen as ‘worth it’.

jinny asks: “How do we educate the parents that are not doing the right thing to change?”

You can’t. Alcoholics not only need to acknowledge the problem themselves, but want to do something about it as well. The more you try to convince an alcoholic of their problem, the more they’ll drink. It’s a catch 22.

Reducing welfare benefits would do squat. All it would mean is that the kids got even less than what they already see.

Unfortunately there are no reactive measures we can take, only proactive. Education from an early age is the only solution I can see that would have any effect, and getting rid of these stereotypes about who alcoholics are would be a good staring point.

The hardest part I've heard with AA is admitting they have a problem. Usually something life threatening has to happen before alcoholics start seeking for help. Even this, they do not do by themselves, they usually are given no more option, and thus forced to go for AA meetings. Some change, some do not. Mind over matter.

I have heard them. They are all similar: insane, delusional, sick, tired, unhappy. Yes they might have gotten better since they managed to stop, but are they happy? They are happier... They cannot stop blaming themselves for their past. They blame all the mistakes, why the left they're children, why the abused others on the effects and the power that alcohol had over them. They treat AA as a religion almost, which I realized, leads to believes. Alcoholics, are a result of abuse and self-blame. They could not deal with the reality of how things were and choose alcohol as a solution, which resulted in a lot more hurt to anyone close to them.

Have you ever believe in something so strongly, that it happens to you, and you feel like it's a miracle? The damage that has been done to our species have been done over many centuries, we can't expect it to correct itself in years. Money and power seems to control our society. Look at the nations that still live without much of those, they are a lot more harmonious and happy. When you speak to them, even though they might be going through a hard time, they are still happy, because they appreciate life. Usually it's always the government that is effective them, apart from that, they are very happy people, very good people. Simple, down to earth, genuine, kind and caring people.

We play our roles in our lifetimes, trying to make a difference, trying to survive. As long as we know we tried our best to make a change, we should feel good about ourselves. We know we tried. We know we care. We know we want the problems fixed.

Thank you AJ. Thus the commencement of the thread [there is usually one alcoholic or more in a family or family tree], the odd aunty or uncle in mine. I have known and know many alcoholics through family work, friends and friends of friends over 40 years. There are alcoholics who do waste benefits on themselves rather than their children and have agreed with one of Rechtub's points.

Although all of the alcoholics I have known have worked their set routine hours or shift work preferring 4am or 5am starts, home, drink, early to bed, in order to limit their intake and keep it the same pattern throughout the year. Lookout if they miss or are disrupted with their own quota or routine at any time though [no judgements just lightening up the subject here]! Same as any addiction/habit.

Kindest thanks AJ.

I am mainly seeking suggestions to assist children if you wish to add any?

You have provided highly intelligent and positive comments Jinny.

I greatly admire your giving nature regarding the youth and parents you assist most of all. I hope many people are putting themselves out there as you are. I look forward to learning from you on other threads.

Enjoy your week Jinny!

If alcohol is such a problem, why is it legal? and also, why is tobacco in the same vote? I don't smoke myself but I do enjoy a nice red wine at the dinner table or playing the guitar.

Jinny. Do you disagree with my intake of alcohol.

TTM

we are unique: I have done my research on alcohol, it's effects, alcoholism, etc.. Fact: From the day we are born till the day we die we will always have alcohol in our bodies "Auto-Brewery Syndrome" were there chemicals in our bodies reacts to yeast(carbo/sugars). In some cases, there are ppl out there that can actually get totally intoxicated without touching a drop of alcohol :), how lucky!! haha

Whether or not you come from an alcoholic or non alcoholic family/parents, will not make you into one. Alcoholics who are finally able to admit their alcoholism likes to use their background as a reason for their irresponsible, uncontrollable, and damaging drinking habits. The bottle did not come to your throat and whisper to your ear:"If you don't drink me, I am going to cut your throat..." sorry, I'm being funny :P

If we were brought up without discipline, then we hardly have any as an adult. None to ourselves, none to our children, which is why the kids are getting abused. You can use alcohol as a reason, IT IS ONLY 1 OF THE REASONS.

Also, another fact: Alcoholics drink because their brain is actually allergic to it. If any of you have bothered to watch that link I posted about Nutrition and Behavior, it will explain a lot to you. But, I know more :P

Enjoy your week too! I always do! Life is great! Can't complain...:)

TTM: Alcohol has it's good and bad. Bad when you let it control you, instead of you controlling it. I don't see anything wrong with drinking. Drinking responsibly. I have seen so much just in the last few weeks from the effects of alcohol.

Senario 1: Busy street during weekend, a mid 20s male, was so angry... took his phone and smashed in on the ground in front of everyone(most probably upset at a girl)

Senario 2: Couple of mornings ago, I heard some yelling. There was this girl, late 20s, yelling, cursing, heavy breathing, she let alcohol control her emotions. Few minutes later a guy comes into the picture. She verbally abuses him, screaming in the middle on BNE city, slaps him a couple of times.

Now, where are the authorities? These are the people that need help. Isn't that what the law is suppose to do? To help, protect and serve... or something..

Alcohol has been proven to actually stimulate you brain activities. That's why sometimes when you drink, you feel like you can do things better and it's a good feeling. As long as you keep it under control.

Even with the law banning drugs and other stuff, people still use them. How the go all out of their ways to break the law is amazing! Then they have the drive, then they use their brains.. funny or what?
Can you imagine if alcohol is banned? The alcoholics will murder the whole country! hahaha

Have a great day :)

Jinny thanks for the info and you have a nice too.

TTM

I don't fully understand why alcohol is legal. What is the purpose? It's destructive and used as a mind altering substance. Fair enough wine in moderation is good for you, but spirits and beer have no use other than making slobs out of people.

Cigarettes are in the same boat for me.
*Hey lets dry some old leaves and soak em in a heap of chemicals for the people. Whats that? their not addictive enough? okey dokey more chemicals it is*
*Oh but they're not good for you so kids can't have them, psst kiddies, if you breathe in the smoke, you'll get some of that goodness too.*

Maybe we can put our heads together and think of other ways to kill ourselves. But suicide is bad mmmkay.

Sorry

I took a moment to read my post and realised how incredibly bitter I am today.

I think somewhere in my rambling I meant to express my discontent toward those who are substance abusers, then become children, wife and people abusers.
Alcohol seems to do more harm than good in the majority of family homes, whether the drinkers are alcoholics or not.
My second job was bar work. I saw the same people everyday consuming countless schooners of beer for hours on end. I'd look at them and think 'their kids must be proud.'
That was two years ago almost. It's a small town and when I drive past on occasion I see the same people considerably aged.

Even if the kids of these people aren't abused, they are missing a nurturing influence that is vital to break the destructive chain reaction that is taking place in that kids mental development.

I'm not saying they will follow in the footsteps, but chances are high.

It's a crying shame.

Hi Nicnoto, great posts and by the way, you did not come across as bitter at all.

Enjoy your week Nicnoto.

Nicnoto: I can understand your frustrations of substance abusers. In order to live our lives in peace, we need to learn to accept. I studied this passage for a few days before I understood what it meant. It is used all over, with some difference in the sentences.

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference"

This message is used quite a bit to help people through depression, struggle, sickness, hope, etc.

We cannot change the 'wrongs' in our world, not immediately anyway, we cannot change people unless they WANT to change. We can try our best to help them change. If we fail, at least we know in our hearts, that we have put in 110% effort into helping make the situation better.

Alcohol and nicotine are not the only problems. There are so many other daily consumption that is not good for our bodies. Kids that do not get a proper diet, already start their young lives out wrongly.Of course this is the responsibility of the parent. How many parents fuss over what their child eats here?

Jamie Oliver won the TED award for trying to change children's diets. I remember watching his TV show on how ignorant western(UK & US) children were about food. This I have only seen in western cultures. As an individual, the amount of changes he has been able to do around the world deserves respect.

Change the children for a better future.. most adults are too damaged and stubborn.

we are unique - thank you, I hope you have a great weekend, I haven't checked BOM yet but I'm also hoping it'll be nice and sunny.

Jinny - I agree, in order to keep ones sanity there does need to be a degree of acceptance. Heres hoping that one day, things will change for the better.

I can't stand seeing kids being given a massive amount of sweets, or fast food. I'm no health advocate but a child needs a healthy start in life. I'm not one to judge either but sometimes I do. I have just breeched my 20's (with no desire to reproduce) and I see parents giving in to their screaming kid and buying them that lolly bag, I know kids wear you down but consistency is key, don't reward tantrum behavior, easier said then done right.

I get pretty angry at the parents who walk around the shopping centers with a trolley full of crap, an obese child and not one vegetable in their shopping. That in my book is abuse.
Set them up with diabetes, great start in life isn't it.
There is way too much bad going on it's hard to focus on what to change.

Nicnoto: I understand your frustrations. You need to learn that you cannot change the way the world works right now. You need to learn how to accept society. There is not point of you getting upset when you see these things happening. You have no right to intervene in situations like those you mention. But, you can do something, for the future.. start a group, a website, work with schools, to educate others what you know, and they do not. The reasons why these abuses are happening is because they do not know any better.

They are happening because people let it happen.

It's become accepted behavior, we frown about it and silently shake our heads but do we actually say or do anything.

And of course they know better, they just don't take the effort to change because its too difficult.