Robert: Do not judge someone you do not know. If you have read my comments carefully, I admitted to my mistake. I told the police myself that I had left my kids in bed. I have been investigated on for child abuse and there was no abuse found. I made a stupid mistake because of my irresponsibility, and now I that know, I am a better person and parent.

Life is a learning experience and we learn, so we can grow. Adults are so stubborn as I council some of them. The kids are so much easier to get through. I really don't see how we can change the parents thinking as most of them are set in their ways no matter how much you try to explain to them why it is not right. How do you tell an abusive parent they are being abusive without them barking at you and telling you to MYOB?

We can only hope that everyone WANTS to make their future a brighter one. We cannot force people to change, it has to come from within. Children are to young to make decisions of trying to get out of an abusive upbringing until they are around 11-12. By that time it is not too late for them to change their lives around. I live near a Youth centre, and speak to the youth there. Many of them have turn their lives around. It wasn't easy, but with the help of the community, they are in a better place now, because they wanted it bad enough.

jinny "Do not judge someone you do not know." - that's part of what I'm talking about.

On the one hand you make the valid point that we should stick our noses in but you also object to people doing so when it's you whose choices are being challenged. I do get how hard it is to always get the balance right and I've tried to stay away from judging you over the other issue.

What I'm pointing out is that we do have this conflict over interfering and being seen to be judging people when we don't know the whole story and we are not in the other persons shoes.

There are really clear cases where children are suffering from neglect or direct abuse and then there is a whole range of things where it's not so clear.

Is the parent who allows their child to become obese significantly less of an abuser than the those who don't feed the child well enough (but do keep them above starvation levels)? How many of us would intervene where the parents are setting their children up for a lifetime of struggles with obesity and associated health consequences.

R0bert

You are all the most giving people and excellent points raised.

The point is Robert, no issues are ever black and white, there are always extenuating circumstances and degrees of incidents. Every parent [as you would know being a parent] will make mistakes [myself included as one-offs never to be repeated] through life. Whether it be I drove too fast in the car with children in the vehicle on a couple of occasions when they were younger, overtook a car risking their lives on another, said something hurtful, we learn from these incidents.

I see the points you are raising, yet Jinny had already bravely commenced a thread and bared her soul to OLO on whatever her issue was and as she stated, has already learned from it, as most parents do, minus addictions.

Back to your point Robert, I believe it is every adult's responsibility to address both abuse and neglect in children as Jinny pointed out.

Rechtub, an excellent point, limiting welfare benefits or rationing them in order to decrease an alcoholic's spending on him or herself, and going to the children.

This point I reckon leads to others made regarding children in the past. A court or family appointed body to execute or direct the funds directly to the children who should be receiving them for their basic needs. Ie a Dad's or Mum's income going directly to the children meeting their needs, as opposed to not receiving their parent's income or benefits [which is supposed to be given to the children].

I agree whole heartedly with "we are unique", the payments from centrelink should only be going to the children. How do you enforce that though? How do you stop the parents abusing the system and the children? People talk all the time. Hardly anyone talks the talk, and walks the walk. Everyone wants a better life, ut how many are actually doing something to help change society? Most of the social, departmental workers do not really care. They do it as a job, because it's their mean of income.

Today I saw a few kid(s), under 12 walking to school by themselves. I don't see anything wrong if they are educated enough by their parents what to do. The streets are in a safe area. According to the law, the parents should be charged? All these laws, came up because of someone else's mistakes. Which the rest of society have to pay for.

Where I live now I see many responsible and proud parents. Before I was living(in Australia) somewhere not so developed. The kids there were not looked after well. They were brought up very roughly. A 5 year old child having a Mohawk hair style in school. I believe in fundamentalism and freedom, but letting children that young do whatever they want? No wonder when they become older they have no sense of responsibility whatsoever. I see them. All they want to do is have fun and enjoy life without hard work. Depending on the system to support them.

How do we educate the parents that are not doing the right thing to change? Is there even a slight chance of that happening now? We should work with the younger generation so the difference will be made for the future.

R0bert: I rather not waste energy and time on stubborn judgmental humans. Thanks for your thoughts

jinny perhaps you should read my comments and your own a bit more carefully.

You seem very willing to judge others who you don't know yet get all bothered when you consider yourself judged. You complain about the government involving itself when it's considered that your children might be at risk yet attack others for not not been keen enough to intervene when they might be concerned that children are at risk.

R0bert