I'm a 29yo single mother. I recently got charged with leaving my 2 children aged 5 and 6 1/2 along at home while they were sleeping at night. I have read up before this on a few .qld.gov as well as .qld.org websites and I never came across any websites that stated in is a crime to leave children at home without adult supervision.

http://www.parentlink.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/30814/Home_Alone2.pdf

http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=305&id=1666

I have told my children numerous times on what to do if they need to contact me. I am only a few minutes away. Also, to dial "000" if I wasn't contactable for any reason. We live in a very secure building and the children know their ground rules. They are very well looked after by me. I have no one else here and do not trust anyone with my kids.

I think the law here is ridiculous. I am not an Australian. So CSO investigates me and ask: "What ifs?" Honestly? What if we all get killed in an accident. What is this world coming to? So when I go to the shops, and we need to use the toilets separately, what am I suppose to do, pee in my pants so I don't leave any child unattended? Because then there is a chance they might get abducted? Best part, they can actually accuse me of being a prostitute. Lovely!

I don't understand what our world has come to where in developed countries, the government think they have the right to tell you to behave the way they think is right. Like robots. Humans have forgotten the core values of life. All they do is stress about finances, success, power, greed, completely brain-washed by society.

I absolutely agree Jinny the way us people in Australia are regulated is pathetic.
I really wish you the best in defeating the charges, and my best advice is to elaborate what you shared with us to whoever gives you trouble.

What makes me wonder is who the hell is calling these policies?

Do you think the general population even cares? All they care, from my few weeks living in this city, is about themselves, and what benefits them. All the departments and professionals are so difficult to work with unless you have big $$$.
We are governed by all these laws yet the main problem in society is not even anywhere close to being dealt with. Instead of putting an effort into changing our future for the better of our planet, we have people working for the money, don't even know how to do their own jobs right(not everyone). Closed minded and never open to suggestion, never wanting to find out more and think they know the better always. All I can see is stress, worry.
Thanks to the media, our upbringing, what society thinks, we have forgotten our own instincts and potential. Instead of living for ourselves, we live for the rest of society. Always not wanting to be judged in a bad way.

That's an interesting point Jinny and I must admit I'm unsure of how to answer it.

Because the strange thing is, absolutely every Australian bar perhaps a few hundred is opposed to this degree of paternalism in our society. The problem is, for one reason or another, they have no inclination to do something about it (except ignore it and hope they don't get caught).

In fact, you will find the degree of how much rot Australians tolerate from our administration is really quite odd- I think the simple answer is Australians find anything to do with politics to simply be too hard to want to touch, and can easily be talked into retaining an outright vile government and enduring whatever abuse they throw by simply being convinced that the opposition is worse and the rest are too minor to get up.

Plus, politics seems to attract some extremely domineering types, which I find rather sad.

It seems things are improving very slowly; though more needs to change.

On a positive note, Australian law is quite flexible, and there are plenty of legal or administrative offices or representatives you can explain to if necessary who will, understanding your predicament simply does not allow you to comply with these standards, and acknowledging you act on necessity and took responsible measures, would cancel the charge

(also be aware that many councils and companies here are very sneaky but cowardly- some try to avoid evidence of innocence, but seem to immediately drop a case out of fright if they think you are either intimidating, persistent, know your rights, or would be willing to consult legal advice. This has happened to me when I needed to do something similar with an official office- they tried to pass me off to dead-end departments, but I persisted and ended up finding their actual contact details and immediately sent them proof- a combination of both I imagine get me through.

Dear Jinny

Depending on the size of the bureaucracy you are dealing with, it is often a good idea to try to contact again later. It doesn't take too long to know whether you are dealing with a control-freak or not - if you find yourself in this situation on the phone - you can claim that someone is at the door or any scenario (kids area great excuse) which gives you the chance to say you will call back later.

Even if at the reception of an organisation, there are ways around this - the staff are rotated quite regularly; I am very good at the coughing fit - by which I can allow a person in the queue behind me to go first, or even leave and come back at some other time. Like if it is early in the morning return at lunch time when hopefully someone else will be able to help. The point is, there are some perfectly decent people in these vile bureaucracies - and there is a good chance you will find someone who will genuinely want to help.

All the best to you and your children.

Obviously there was a complaint otherwise how would the cops find out?. And, "charged with leaving my 2 children aged 5 and 6 1/2 along at home..."?. What was the specific charge?. Endangerment?. Surely they said in court what the specific charge was.

Seems to me there would HAVE to be a complaint and that the police believe there's case enough to charge you. I don't believe there's an actual law against leaving your kids at home of ANY age and you will get your opportunity to plead your case.

The flip side of your argument, is that no one does anything to aid children being left alone and in danger. Sometimes making a complaint is the BEST option. I wonder how many kids have been saved because of it. Cops hear about how much the accused REALLY loves their children and would never hurt them all the time, and then the next wrap police tape around the house.

If I believed you were neglecting a 5 and a 6 year old I'd call the police in a heartbeat. I'd rather they sussed you out than did nothing a possibly read about them in the news.

Sorry Jinny rather be honest than popular I think you got it wrong.
Never happened in my family and never should in my view.
Understand it is hard but thats how I see it.
Welcome to the forum hope you stay.

Jinny

Before anyone could really decide whether you should be charged we would need to know the full story? Why did you leave the children, how often. how long etc? It seems people have formed an opinion without the facts. I am not suggesting you did but some parents go off to drinking holes or pokie hangouts. This is child neglect at best.

Jinny, I sure hope that if you are selfish enough to expect to go to bead, & actually sleep at night, you set an alarm for every half hour. It would be dreadful if you hadn't got up & checked the kids for an hour or two.

King, I don't think this stuff has anything to do with the politicians, few of them are this interested, unless their gilt is by default.

The problem is too many graduates, with qualifications in some make believe discipline in the public services. These people put up these ridiculous rules to give themselves power, & the pollies are too lazy to check what they are allowing through.

This cr4p is getting in every where, in all areas, & quiet law abiding people are saying it will take a financial collapse, or spilt blood for it to be corrected.

I believe we need an injection of French farming blood to get some resistance happening. If bureaucrats tried this stuff in France, their ministry buildings would disappear under a heap of manure.

Dear Jinny,

I'm sorry but young underaged children should not be
left alone under any circumstances.
The laws are in place to protect the children.
It's that simple. You wishes or needs come second
to that. If you need to go out for whatever
reason there are babysitters, there are relatives
or friends, even neighbours who can help in an
emergency. But leaving children on their own - is a
No! No!

How many times have we read the news where children
were left in cars, while parents went gambling or
shopping? How many times have children died in fires
in the home? The laws should be explained to you,
and frankly with small children - they come first
before your own needs. You have to put your children
first. No matter how well you've "trained" them - thay
are only children and should not be left on their own.
And their welfare is your responsibility as a parent,
not theirs.

I'm with Foxy here.

Quite frankly, I'm amazed that you believe it's acceptable to leave such small children to sleep at night without mature supervision. It wouldn't cross my mind in a zillion years to do that.
As much as we like our children to develop a little autonomy as they grow, they do not have the foresight to deal with emergencies - that's why parents are usually around. Aside from this, and keeping in mind their tender years, I should think it would be most unsettling for them to know that you purposely remove yourself from their environment at night (or anytime?) leaving them unsupervised.

Jinny, welcome to OLO.

Notwithstanding the fact that I don’t know the full story, I totally sympathise with you.

The nature of this law is one objectionable thing. The lack of publicity about it is another objectionable thing altogether. If we are going to have this sort of law, it needs to be publicised long and loud, so that there is practically no chance of anyone inadvertently infringing it.

How is a mother ever supposed to know such a bizarre law exists?

I for one, and I suspect many people, would have never given such a thing a second thought. I would simply have presumed that the welfare of one’s children is the responsibility of the parent(s) and that the parent(s) has the right to make judgements accordingly.

Here is a very similar general thread that I started about four weeks ago:
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3937

I'm making 2 assumptions here, based on the wording of the first post (1) the 2 children were left alone all of, or a good deal of, the night (2) there was no unavoidable emergency that necessitated adult absence.

"IF" those 2 assumptions are correct, which is my reading of the first post, then it's totally beyond my comprehension how anyone can even remotely defend the leaving of 2 small children alone at home throughout the night. There ARE child neglect laws, and anyone who neglects their children in such a way fully deserves to be dealt with accordingly, then educated on how to be a responsible parent, then have their parenting supervised until they fully accept and understand the error of their previous actions.

Some people have no understanding of what responsible parenting entails.

Sorry Jinny, but I am with Ludwig here.
If your story is true that is?
I sometimes smell a rat when negative single mother stories suddenly appear on these pages!

In our country at least, it is not acceptable to leave such young children alone at home at any time of the day.

Children of that age require supervision - and your' 'right' to leave your kids home alone are well and truly over-ridden by their rights to be safe and cared for appropriately by you.

Telling them they can ring 000 is totally irresponsible too, given that this number is for life-threatening situations only... and two frightened or lonely children ringing up the 000 operator and taking up their time could cause delays in a real emergency.

Mind you, the 000 operator could, on being told two such young kids are home alone, consider the situation a danger to the kids and they may well send out police and/or child welfare staff to check on them anyway.

Is that what happened Jinny?
How did the authorities find out what you had done?

Children under the age of 18 years living in the home must be supervised and adequately cared for [all needs met ie saftey/supervision, fed and clothed] by either their parent guardian or a person sufficiently mature and sensible to meet all of their needs at all times.

Failure to provide all of the needs may well result in children being taken out of the parents or guardians care [dependant upon FACHSIA/Family Services and the Police as support].

Every child deserves the right to be raised in a secure environment and supervised at a young age.

Many common accidents with toddlers and primary school aged children occur in the home.

Do not leave your children at home or anywhere unsupervised Ginny, particularly between the ages of 5 - 10yrs.

If you love them and want the best for them; wait until they are older and able to think of the consequences of possible risks taken and injuries they are able to sustain in addition to stranger danger issues.

Hasbeen- not politicians, but whichever local rep this matter would be referred to (it's a similar problem in this area as with politics and similar bureaucracy- so a similar approach is likely worthwhile.

One of these officious public servants went after an acquaintance of mine some years back. He took his 2 young kids from Sydney harbour to Port Stephens for a Christmas cruise. The woman claimed this was endangerment or something.

The silly lady should have realised that people who have large high powered motor boats, [hot water boats, or gin palaces to us sailing types], are not poor.

This one was a high power barrister, who chewed her to bits.

Just as well we didn't have any of these people out in the islands. She would have been horrified when my eldest daughter sailed over 2000 nautical miles, in the big nasty ocean, before her first birthday.

It is a matter of some wonder to me that that same daughter, after her upbringing, is now a perfectly acclimatised suburban mother, McMansion, swimming pool, 2 car garage, huge mortgage, & all the other baggage that goes with it.

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback, I will read through and consider them as soon as I finish my post.

So who thinks it's right for others to decide for you your choices in life. Example:
"Take kids to park/playground with kids classmates. I usually always pack food for the kids as I know what is good for them and what is not. So kids, out of boredom/greed(sweet stuff brought by other parents), keeps wanting to eat, after I already allowed them some. When I decide NO, as I was going to leave and give them their healthy lunch. Other parents think they have the right to offer my kids more junk food."

Is this right? They don't seem to understand that all the junk food does is attack our brain development. This is why society is how it is right now. People can't even think straight anymore. They have forgotten how to think for themselves. Instead, they think for everything else they have been made to believe in since birth.

It is so typical of people to judge others. Righteousness? They want to judge me because I explain I am working and researching on the internet, and what does CSO say: Oh, you only care about yourself? I have lost everything because I cared for others and believed the lies and empty promises, and am now trying to build up my life again. First time in my life, broke, great or what? I mean, she doesn't seem to understand that I have done online business and studied online business before. What do others know of my circumstances. It is my choice of life, my believes, my faith. I do not need some "intelligent" person calling me a prostitute.

For those out there who want to improve their lives and understand better why our society has turned out this way, please take 49 minutes of your very important lives, and watch this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2963728494205235281#
It is a long time study by a retired neurosurgeon, MD, nutritionist, author.

So... now, instead of concentrating and making money so the kids and I can live a good life, I have to spend every other day going for meetings/appointments, and the latest, court appearances, because I choose to live life to my believes, values, and knowledge? Awesome change for our planet.

Just FYI, no one complaint to the authorities, I informed them that myself. As I mentioned, I did not know this was against the law in QLD. Why don't they make Australians more aware of all the new law they come up with? 2 ppl got fined for smoking near some religious building. How are they supposed to know they can't when there are no signs? Honestly?? Do they think we have nothing better do to then to sit in front of the idiot box everyday so we can get more brain-washed and programmed into how we should live or lives?

Also, I noticed that many people here have no sense doing what they say. Is the language that hard to comprehend, or are they that accustom to lying that they actually don't even realize they do in. I wish I lived on their time zone. 1 second= a few minutes, 2 minutes= 25 minutes, a while= an hour almost. Wow, I'd live to be able to do so much more with my life.

People who have jobs with power somehow think they have the right to abuse others. What happened to human rights and respecting life? Every life form. What happened to unity of living together with other forms of life? In order to safe our planet, we need to admit to our flaws and make a difference, for the future generation. Else, we're going to turn out to be robots, controlled by anybody who has enough power.

Dear Jinny,

I'm trying to get my head around your attitude.
When my son was five years-old he was still in kindergarten. I would have no more thought of leaving him unattended in the situation you describe than I would have flown to the moon.
It is a parental responsibility to provide not only physical security for children, but also psychological security. By leaving your children alone at night you have failed to provide either of these.
I can't fathom why you would fuss over your children's nutrition and at the same time feel it is entirely within the bounds of reason and parental responsibility to leave them alone in dwelling, separate from yourself or an alternate carer.
We do have many laws that tend to bureaucratise life to absurdity, however, the circumstances you have described do not fit that category.
You will have plenty of time in the not too distant future to make your money and do what you want to do. For now, your children are young and they need you to watch out for them in a responsible manner.

Jinny please do not be offended \.
Know if you needed it some of us, those who agree and disagree with you would give it to you.
Do not take this real story as an insult to you.
It is in fact only a reminder to all hasbeen my old sparring partner too.
Watching that 7.30 investigative journalism show.
A woman and her kids popped up on screne.
She had a tail to tell of sleeping in her car no place to live no money a harsh life of brutal men and it went on.
Cash collected and a home found.
It would have been about her 15th home, every one set up by helpful people, her story was true only in the fact she was in trouble, again.
she always was always will be, drugs men,education departments kids who do not go to school.
I and a few cringed we knew the story we had gave help too many times ,some times you must look under the carpet before declaring the house clean.

Ludwig: Thanks for the link. That's how I found this website in the first place.

Poirot: Thanks for your opinion. As I have mentioned. You have no idea of my circumstances. Would it be better for the children if I allow them to live in a refugee center then? I have been used to giving them the best, and I will do anything in my capability to make sure that they are given a better childhood then mine. I had a great one btw.

If the authorities want to investigate on child abuse, why don't they investigate the children's step-father? Who can't even come spend time with the on father's day? My kids ask me all the time when they are going to see him, and they don't get to see him. Is that not mentally and emotionally abuse the children? It's not to say the father doesn't miss them, it is because he is too selfish to think about the kids.

Why don't they investigate on the children's biological father, who has been stalking me for so long. Thought my daughter how to lie at the age of 3. Never ever bothered to support the children. NO, you know what the authorities tell me? It's such a complicated case. So they can't really do much since he is not in this country. His aim in life is to bring me down because I choose to live my live without having to live with false accusations all the time. But in the mean time, the abuse will keep going on, it's come to a point where I can't even make friends anymore. I have to isolate myself completely, coz the last friend I made ended up being subjected to a lot of unnecessary stress. So yeah, I have no one here to help. No friends, no family.

Just to clarify, I read someone mention about my negativity. As I said before. Do not judge when you do do not know. I have strangers telling me each time what a positive vibe I have. I do not look at things negatively. I believe everything happens for a reason. This happened to teach me a lesson. I admit that it was my mistake as I did not know about this law. I also promised that I would never do it again. I do not say things I don't mean.

I thank you everyone who has put in feedback and views for this post. I respect all your opinions. Have a great day today. Appreciate everything around you.

jinny your telling others not to judge and you tell Pirot "You have no idea of my circumstances" yet you have chosen to place enough of your story on a public forum to try and highlight your concerns about government intervention in your circumstances.

It seems that you are trying to have your cake and eat it to.

I'm also a single parent and I've had some years of having my options limited by the responsibilities that go with parenting. Predominately my own choices by the way.

The legal balance is not always right between rights and responsibilities for parents but my impression is that most of those involved in child protection field work are fairly switched on to real life.

It's my understanding that children need to be at least 12 before they can be left unattended for any sustained period (you can go to the toilet, take a shower, sleep etc).

I agree that other people insisting on feeding kid's junk food (and similar behaviours) can be a pest but that's a different topic to government intervention over young children being left unattended.

I don't know your circumstances either, I do know that I've needed to adjust my own choices, beliefs and expectations many times to fit the circumstance of being a parent.

R0bert

Good day,

Once again. I would like to state that I take responsibility for the wrong choices I have made in life. I admit that I made the mistake. I do not blame the Authorities for doing their job.

My kids go to a good school, get the best looking after. I am not complaining about being a single mother and being all alone, because this is my decision. I enjoy every single day with my kids. I feel like the luckiest person alive. Please understand that I started this discussion to get different views on the subject. I know and admit to my mistakes and wrong doings in life. I am responsible for my children and me. I am not perfect, and will learn well from this experience.

Thank you so much everyone who has shared their experiences and knowledge.

I’m not so sure that you’ve made a mistake Jinny. And even if you have, I’m strongly inclined to think that it should not be the role of Big Brother to cop you for it, in this instance.

As I’ve alluded to previously, a major problem here is that the law is not well enough advertised.

If we are going to have laws that people are not even likely to think about - that is; not even think of the possibility of them existing, then these laws need to be shoved down our throats.

It is just ENTIRELY INAPPROPRIATE for laws to exist that anything more than the tiniest fraction of people could inadvertently infringe.

A fundamental part of our legal system has surely got to be adequate informing of the public. It is NOT sufficient to put the onus on people to inform themselves.

Secondly, the police and presumably relevant departmental officers have enormous discretionary powers. They should NOT charge anyone with an offence such as the one that you have come up against unless there has been an obvious negative outcome for the children involved, or there was a very high risk of it, AND the offender was acting knowingly unlawfully. A warning would surely have sufficed in this particular case.

In other words, no law-enforcement officer should take action simply because a law has been infringed, regardless of the consequences or lack thereof. Unfortunately, we cannot rely on our law-enforcement officers to behave properly in this regard.

continued

We can also not have any faith that a magistrate will look past the fact that a person has been charged. With minor matters, magistrates all too often take the view that the work has been done by the officers involved as to whether a person should be charged. They think that the officers have basically made a judgement of innocence or guilt and have found the person guilty or else they wouldn’t have charged them.

And unfortunately, officers take the view that they should charge a person if a legal offence has occurred, regardless of the circumstances, and that the magistrate will sort out the details and fine the person accordingly.

This is a major problem with our legal system, at least with minor matters, which a magistrate is inclined to deal with very quickly and superficially.

So, it is very easy for a person to inadvertently infringe the law, do so in a totally benign manner, and still find themselves in the poo, with a big fine, a record, a sh!tload of stress and embarrassment and a badly tarnished reputation in the eyes of everyone who knows them…. and a critically damaged respect for the law and authorities.

Again, a warning would surely have sufficed in this instance.

Dear Ludwig,

Thank you for your views. I will not deny that this is not my mistake. It is. It is because I should have looked more into and and not believed what was out there on the internet. I should have considered all the risk that were involve before taking action. How this happened was because I cannot rest until I have achieved everything I have set out to do in a day. My last job was getting to an internet cafe, and finishing up what I had to do. MY MISTAKE!

I have been advised to plead guilty for this offence which I have been charged with when I appear in court. Of course they are so considerate they would arrange the hearing at the same time I need to send the kids to school at:). I really can't complain, because it will make it more challenging for me. Good learning experience, makes me grow as a person. Will make me a better mother.

Unfortunately there's no such thing as ignorance of the law. There are offences, and intent. Generally if you have 'innocent intent' then you have a defence. I believe child services can be REAL ... ummm ... harsh, let's say. That department is broken. We'll all agree on that.

There's a couple of comments about the law being advertised ... REALLY? ... any idea how many laws there actually are?. Where would people like them advertised?. IF you're really that concerned about your rights and obligations, do some research.

I noticed the word 'refugee' in one of your comments, Jinny. I think the vast majority of sane Australians believe that the duty of care the government owes refugees - once accepted as a legal refugee - is vastly more than they currently deliver. Obviously they can't get you up to speed - depending on where you come from - due to social education being taught from when you're a baby. There's just too much to learn. Basic understanding of laws and moral expectations should be a given though.

"I have been advised to plead guilty for this offence..."

Yeah, smelling a rat too now. Anybody advising you of this - if indeed someone did - isn't in your corner. You get legal representation for free at court. I advise you take that opportunity. Before you get there, write down EVERYTHING that is your intention and beliefs regarding the safety and well being of your kids. Plead guilty?. I would NEVER do that in regards to an offence against your kids.

well the issue goes deeper into the Rape of the Nuclear Family gig, does it not, ie the whole drive of the Family Law Industry/Feminism and the billions of dollars pa poured into the quangos says kids DON'T need fathers. ie one of the good things about 2 parents is at least ONE can look after kids at all times.

Here are a few sticks to threaten the State or Territory with: http://is.gd/dr8vL, http://tribune.grputland.com/2009/08/wake-up-australia-stamp-duties-on-new.html.

Jinny, in the interests of accuracy, I have some questions for you.

(1)What was the actual time you left, and the time you returned?

(2)Did the leaving of the children alone happen just this once, or on more occasions?

(3)Exactly what were you doing for all the time you were away from your children?

A mate of mine had his 40th birthday on his yacht & celebrated with a couple of friends & his 6 year old daughter. When his friends needed to leave the yacht he took them ashore in his little dinghy while his daughter stayed on board. As luck would have it a rather young female constable insisted he do a breath test & of course having had a few beers he registered over the limit. This constable arrested him on the spot & packed him into the Police car & took him to the station. Meanwhile his daughter was panicking on the yacht & all my mate's pleas to let him go back to get his daughter fell on deaf ears. Fortunately, someone witnessed this idiocy & three hours later he was allowed to go back to his yacht. The little girl had nightmares for weeks. Such are the morons in Public office & they're given power over thinking people. Ah & yes, that happened in Queensland not in Iran or somewhere similar.

If that story is 100% accurate, and it may not be, then the police officer broke the law and could very easily be charged with an offence.

of course this story totally conflicts with the Dianne Grumble case where a single mom was on a cruise with her 11 yo daughter and left her alone to get laid by as many blokes as possible.

the court case into her self inflicted overdose said not a peep about the "mother's" total deriliction of the pronked "parenting role", but became a witch hunt [a Grimble Grumble] into those that were invited to jump her bones.

if the story here is true, could it possibly be that the 40 year rule of radical feminists is about to do a U Turn?

I don't think so

This is why I love olo, everyone's judge, jury , and executioner.lol

Why not let runner baby sit, and not only would you not need a pool fence, but by the time you got back from the RSL, your kids would be walking on water. Smile.

No one knows the circumstances to this story, its all speculation and conjecture, and if you do know something, you should not be putting it here.

Innocent until proven guilty, well its sounds good.lol.

And a big pat on the back for those people that are not witch hunters.

How human! Everyone wants to burn someone but themselves.

I just love it!

TTM>

think than move,

I presume Jinny posted here because she wanted some feedback.
I heard enough of her explanation and defence of leaving her children unsupervised to form an opinion. Those of us who disagreed with her method of nocturnal nurturing said so.
No-one here wishes Jinny any continuing hardship. We appreciate that she's trying to make her way in the world like the rest of us.
Btw, in my opinion, it would be more help to her if the authorities assisted her to work out a solution to her dilemma rather than prosecute her.

to save me reading all pages, was it said she "reported herself"

if so, what was that all about?

If that story is 100% accurate, and it may not be, then the police officer broke the law and could very easily be charged with an offence.
Transki,
this is true but to contest the charge would have cost him too much.

Police support DOCs and FACHSIA; not the other way around regarding the well being of children or possible situations of neglect. Police or DOCs are initially contacted by a tip off via a neighbour, family member or known person to the family.

Interviews are conducted by both police officers and DOCs/FACHSIA reps.

Most people are aware of this.

If there is a history or witness accounts that children are left on a regular basis at home [ie at a young age], this is required to be addressed.

The facts are that some parents have no idea [lack of common sense] of how their children behave or react after the parents leave the home for a period of time, particularly between the ages of 5-10 years.

When an Australian program decided to demonstrate a door knocking process with young kids left on their own at home, most children allowed the unknown visitor to walk into their homes, tour the rooms and bedrooms, chatting away to the unkown visitor [the interviewer who undertook various poses [in disguise].

All sorts of lies and friendliness were sufficient for the program interviewer to be allowed access by those parents' kids.

Most know how serial killers lure their victims. Think here of Ivan luring backpackers wearing his Road working garb and perhaps popping on an orange warning light on the top of his vehicle he'd had,with some witches hats displayed on the base of his vehicle. A taxi driver, a person disguised as an officer, a security guard, on it goes.

The parents were then interviewed and 'shocked' [I roll my eyes here] given that parents 'think' they have conditioned or educated their kids to behave according to their [parents] rules when in fact, on many occasions it is the opposite.

All kids take risks as do adults, kids are gullible, as are many adults.

As I said Ginny, if you love your children do not leave them unattended.

Jinny whatever the true story I am sorry for the trouble you are in.
You have the key and the answer to this, you can find a way around it and learn from it.
No one but you can do it better.
You must not let those who wish to judge you good or bad influence you here.
However personal truth and understanding are your best tools.
My job is one that see,s me helping people in trouble every day.
Some bring that trouble down on them selves time and again, other learn from it and become better persons.
I fall for storys that would make a concrete statue cry, would rather be like that than convict the inocent.
But I too learn, to see between the lines, to question, to try to help even the helpless.
Your words Jinny convict you, the unwritten and the written here.
It is not the end, no one is perfect, we all get it wrong build on your own words of love for your kids and move on you can do it.
my regards and best wishes.
TTM you too need to get away from that bitterness good luck.

Hello all,

Sigh... I hope hoping I didn't have to respond to this. But since you all care so much. I took a lot in and learned a lot from all your responses earlier. I don't see the point of explaining the circumstance to strangers who do not personally know me coz I know I'm going to be judged and accused wrongly again. I mean, the fact that the CSO officer can accuse me of being a prostitute was pretty amazing!

Fact: I broke the law, doesn't matter what the circumstances was, the law states that children under the age of 12 cannot be left alone without Adult supervision. So yes, I am guilty of that. Accepted.

I have got better things to do then to worry about what is going to happen. Why should I when I know who I am and I know what happened. Everything happens for a reason, and this happen so I can be a better mother to the kiddos.

I have submitted a written apology to the authorities and apologized for my irresponsibility and the hassle I caused them. Also thanking the 2 officers that stayed at my place while I was taken to the watch house, blah, blah, blah. I thanked them for teaching me this very valuable lesson in life.

Thank god the kids didn't have to experience anything. What "individual" said about the 40 yr old and his daughter.. now that is devastating. That will scar a person for life. One bad experience can happen so quickly, but the amount of time and effort taken to fix it, could last a lifetime.

What is the point, of arguing who right, who's wrong when all it's going to do it waste more time, cause more frustrations. There are bigger problems in this world then the was our system works.

My who live, I've had to live with everyone telling me what to do. Now I don't. I am happy to be with the kids on my on. I feel like the luckiest person alive. Yes I miss my family and friends a lot. But I know this is only temporary. I know that I need to put a lot of effort into building back my independence I lost because I allowed myself to be abused.

I realized, that they were all my mistakes and no one else's. I was going for these group meeting. I learned so much from it. I learn that people always like to put the blame on everything else except themselves. They blame parents, upbring, friends, influences, society. Why can't we realize that the only blame lies on ourselves? Nobody took a knife and forced you to do something. We allowed ourselves the hurt and pain.

wipes tear from his eye --

well jinny let's cut to the chase. The very first line "I am SINGLE mother" had the alarm bells ringing and then the refugee bit, as I say straight from the Grimble Grumble textbook on how to spend the $2.3 billion we get every year, but not next year if we don't spend it THIS year.

The Constitution says justice must not just happen but be SEEN to happen hence all courts [incl fam ct] are open. So let's have the case number of your matter so we can SEE if this is real or just another Secret Wimmins Business rant

Dear Divorce Doctor,

Classic example of what I mentioned before. Where do I find this so called case number. I have been charged and due in court in 11 days. What I do see on paper is Bench Charge Sheet Ref: 1003050587 and Bench Charge Sheet Ref:1003050609. I would appreciate if I am not the subject of scorn. Thank you. I don't think it is nice to personally attack someone on forums because of what you think you believe.

whatever jinny, but as our esteemed ForumFuhrer says, when a thread gets totally boring, his minders have told him he must hype it up a bit.

So let's try a new slant here, ie just how many of the people here were actually conned by the Napalm Girl gig in 1972

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTpZkziY7SM

Divorce Doctor

What are you? Forum detective teaming up with the hardy boys.

no, I simply believe that even the most Politically Correct people [well maybe not americans] CAN think if given a "pump prime".

that is why I left #5 to #50 for YOU to solve, eg compare the "make up" on the kiddie to the scars on the lady claiming to be NG 20 years down the track. As a starter, look at top of left shoulder.

See, it's dead easy

Divorce Doctor: I'm impressed with your passion... and thanks for cracking me up! I like that remark you made about keeping it interesting. I do it all the time, and it is so worth it. Boredom is can be kept for the grave. Not all Americans are like that. They can't help it that their system doesn't educate them that there are other countries in this world apart from them.:P

Could I please ask what do you mean by this:
"that is why I left #5 to #50 for YOU to solve, eg compare the "make up" on the kiddie to the scars on the lady claiming to be NG 20 years down the track. As a starter, look at top of left shoulder."

And why is it a must for children to have both parents? Because the book of life says so? I mean what about the ones that had a parent pass away? Then what?

Thank you: "think than move", "we are unique" and "Nicnoto"

Belly: I did not start this thread to be pitied on. Neither am I bitter. I am very lucky, and I can do it on my own. As I said, it is not right to pass judgement on another life without knowing. Appreciate your concern tho.

Jinny do not mistake advice for pitty.
And see my words divorce Doctor is not a Worth while shoulder to cry on he seems to dislike all woman kind.
no one is forever lost, take this advice, we only know you from your words we read here, do not tell us too much.
Never again put in print details of a case you are involved, in
you must understand right now some one who read what you put here can look into your case, know your inner secretes.
and Jinny some like to kick a person when they are down, remember be careful on line.
others have ignored my advice and suffered for being too open.
And sorry your own words say,and what you have let us read in between those lines tell us you got it wrong.
it is not the end of the world you can move on and should good luck, remember the net is not safe place to let your Gard down, trust your instincts but question even them.

American refugees....?

Oh, I see. My bad.

The one who said RSL.. in brisbane city. Please tell me where one that has a kids club.

Bella... thank you once again for your feedback.

I have been on the internet since it was available to the public. Usually I know the law. Have never been in trouble with the law till now. I have enclosed details because I did not like some person calling me a liar. I have nothing to hide.

DD accused me of starting this discussion for business sake? Come on.. What world do you live in? He has so much anger and hatred in him for some reason, and he gets some kinda satisfaction taking it out on others.

Bella, if you knew my story, you wouldn't believe it. Even my close friend don't believe it. I don't regret. I learn. Because of what I had to go through in live, I have managed to only see positive. I know it is hard to believe.. but I am happy. Very.

I know the officers were only doing their jobs. I know I broke the law and I wanted to hear opinions. I try the best I can to protect the kids, whatever circumstances. I try. If I fail, I will loose my children...who means the world to me.

I can say. I respect every mother. Being a mother is the toughest job in the world. Men will never understand. We try, as mothers.. we try to give our children the best. But no one is perfect...

Stg: too sarcastic.

the PROBLEM ginny goes back to OP post

I'm a 29yo single mother. I recently got charged with leaving my 2 children aged 5 and 6 1/2 along at home while they were sleeping at night. I have read up **before** this on a few .qld.gov as well as .qld.org websites and I never came across any .... blah blah

your story went on to say you did a Grimble Grumble to get YOURSELF arrested to prove a point of DOGMA that you were researching under the $2.3 billion secret wimmums business grant to HLLs.

the problem is you are no different to those men at http://familylawwebguide.com.au/ who want "shared parenting" legalised.

the commonality is that the KIDS' position is not considered in the DOGMA of either of your groups [as Nicholson CJ Fogarty J etc have said for 20 years]

you are simply carrying on the art of Cash for Comment started by John Laws and used/abused by John Howard to create the above web site and this one.

we KNOW that the 10 "waring men" at http://familylawwebguide.com.au/ got $75,000 each pa to do that CfC site so we assume similar for our ForumFuhrer here.

as per my Napalm Girl video, ALL marketing goes back to Adolf Hitler and

"It is most fortunate for Governments that the people do not think"

the whole of the American Dream relies on that

so jinny, YES you are doing well with this little "chattering class" ditty as Howard called it, but PLEASE at some stage think of the KIDS, and NOT by way of your insipid feminist dogma

Your children will thank you and show their love to you in the future Jinny. They remember everything of significance to them and share these moments with you both as teenagers and young adults later. Believe me. Create as many fun and memorable positive experiences with them as possible: the picnics, fishing [my kids loved regular fishing and catching yabbies], bike riding [second hand ones available if they dont have one], flying a kite in the park, the beach, so many activities you are undoubtedly doing now. Drama lessons run by TAFE, and other activities where both yourself and your children will meet other parents and children.

Becoming friends with a parent at their school is great for some support too, along with scouts or the police boys clubs in your area for various activities.

Ring a 'grannie'/Grandparent? is available in most states for a grandparent figure to become involved with your children over the years. Perhaps a lady in her late 50's would be best as opposed to late 60's. These grandparents are screened via police checks although until your children are older, probably a positive move to be around and get to know the person over a long period first.

Doctor Divorce: Nice one.. do you even have children? or do you just like to preach others because you like listening( in this case reading) to your own voice. You keep repeating yourself over and over again. You judge everybody even before you give yourself the chance of knowing them. And somehow, in your mind, you still think you are right..

I wonder who did what to you. My kids are asleep.. so I can do this. Do not ever judge me on my parenting skills unless you know me. You can hide behind a computer and lash out your anger at the world. Never face the root of your problem but always take it out on others... Good on you DOCTOR

I stated before. I will say it again. I started this post because I wanted to get other opinion in.. which I did. I did not expect to have "life" preachers who thinks the way they think is right and everyone else is wrong.

Once again, my sincere apology. I would recommend the moderator to take this discussion off. Thank you and enjoy the best as you can.. the weekend!

thank you "we are unique"

I practice that with the kids. Living in the heart of a busy city is not where kids should be. The grandparents they talk to frequently, and I feel bad realizing that I am denying them they're grandparents at the moment.

The kids have already caught and ate their own fish. I find it hard to think about fishing in bne city. My personal opinion as their mother, is that they have never been happier. I have never been happier. I know, others look at us and wish they have what we have. They price to pay for that is huge, but it is worth it. I am a proud mother. I think my kids are the best.. better then any other kids. That is my opinion. Unfortunately, they got stuck with a screwed up mother.. so I apologize to them for that.

When i decided to have both of them(both my decision), I never knew what the future was going to be like. They are my everything...

DD: Are you trying to convince yourself or others here?

Excellent Jinny. You know all of the right things, just take each day as it comes, and do not be too proud to ever ask for assistance. Being a mother or father is the most precious gift, experience and the most full on occupation of all. Jobs and professions pale in comparison. In fact there is no comparison as all of us parents know.

For this, credit and love yourself Jinny. There is no such thing as a right or wrong mother. If you love and show love to your children along with meeting their needs, you are a wonderful mother.

When they turn 18 or 21 your children will thank you sincerely from their hearts.

I came across a carpenter a week ago [aged 19 yrs] who was raised primarily by his mother [father departed]. This boy had nothing but praise for his mother, conveying the fact that his mother had sacrificed her life and lifestyle, no men coming in and out of the home randomly staying, she worked part-time in order to be home after school for them, met all of their emotional and physical needs, he stated that a better mother he could not love and respect.

My daughter heard the story and witnessed the respect he had for his Mum.

A credit to his Mum and a credit to himself for acknowledging and not adopting a spoilt attitude growing up.

If he has a 21st guess who will be thanked first and foremost?

Dear we are unique,

Thanks a lovely story. Thank you for sharing that. I do love myself, but I love my kids more. I'm that positive that I don't need to ask for help, it comes to me naturally. I just had the best weekend filled with laughter and joy. That is what means the most to me, and trying to keep my kids heart and soul pure so they can follow my footsteps, and not make the same mistakes I have made.

So glad school's starting in the morning! In the mean time.. I live within the minute, not even the day anymore. You can't predict what the future is going to be, but we can work hard on making a difference.

Thank you once again for all the feedback. I appreciate all the effort. Sorry if i have upset anyone. Did not intend to, sometimes frustration overcomes me and I express it without thinking it through. Have a great start of the week!

Any mother that leaves two kids alone for that period of time wants stoning, or worse if thats possible. 5+6 is to young to be left alone for a period of time.

579 that is genuinely nasty. It's already pretty much agreed that it was not a good choice but in the scale of parental choices I've seen and heard of far worse.

If the kid's were asleep it's a very minor safety risk with a chance of them being upset if they wake and find that a parent is not there. Far better than parents who continue to feed kid's junk food, those who won't reach their kid's basic life skills, those who constantly attack their children's self esteem etc.

R0bert

Thank you R0bert, I do not need defending in an online forum, I do appreciate it though. It is normal human behavior, completely understandable. I am not upset. The only ones who can upset me are my kids. I have a very high tolerance level. I don't see how you managed to assume that.
This charges are the least of my worries right now. The only thing it is for me is that it's going to be a waste of time going in and out of courts when I already have so much to do. I'm sure it will be a good learning experience as well.

It is my choice to choose what to share and not to share. I have learnt that by not dealing with a problem and trying to pretend it's not there does not solve anything. I know the consequences of putting out my personal information. It's ok. I've been subjected to so much defaming over the internet and with the departments here, this time I'm not going to sit back and let the problem fix itself, because I know it won't.

579: Kukluxklan would describe you well. So the last 2 days taking the kids to school and back I've seen quite a few kids under 12 yrs old, as young as 7, walking alone to school, at least 5-10 mins aways from school. Wanna go stone their parents? Wow, your thinking just entertains my brain. What era do you live in again? I'm surprised you even know how to use a computer ;) no offense.. it's just hard to put 2 n 2 together with humans that still have these kinda mindset.

I suppose you think you're jesus reborn? Never don't anything wrong in your life and have somekinda right over other lifeform?

jinny, I'd not be real comfortable with my choices if I challenged you over perceived double standards but chose to stay quiet about such a nasty post which was not part of an ongoing exchange. Nothing you have said here warrants such a vile attack. I don't always make the right choices about what to respond to but the sentiments expressed in that post really bothered me.

I've been thinking about :getting charged for leaving children at home alone" and comments which have flowed out of recent discussions.

I wonder when the last time a parent was charged for knowingly allowing children to ride a bike on the road without a helmet (and plenty do). I wonder when the last time a parent was charged for contributing to their child's obesity. When was the last time a parent was charged for not getting their child away from the games machine and out for some exercise often enough. When was the last time a parent was charged for not doing a any of the basics that are part of being a responsible parent.

I struggle to see any valid case for leaving sleeping children unattended in a secure place for a period being a chargeable offense while much more dangerous failings are not acted on.

R0bert

look jinny, this thread has got totally boring and as the Cash for Comment job of our Forum Fuhrer is to "sex it up" if it drags, I can help out

It is totally obvious to me that all Tony Abbott's problems stem [npi] from being left alone by his mum Mother Abbott when he was a kid.

Had it not been for that [as reported by the Aust Institute of Family Studies] he would never have considered sleeping "top-and-tail" [or Catholic 69ers] with fellow Catholic creeps [and Germaine Greer?] back in those University days.

Who can forget the "DNA Kid case" as reported

"Vatican roulette

Twenty-seven years ago, Kathy McDonald, as she was known then, shared a flat with Bill from arts school.

"Someone was sleeping in my room and the only room that was free was Bill's room and that's where I crashed," she said. [ED: sounds a bit 3 Bearish]

"A few hours later Bill came in. It's not totally unusual for flatmates to top-and-tail if you've got extras staying over.

"We didn't top-and-tail, we were intimate and the next morning we both got up and said 'oh God'.

"We were good friends, flatmates, we realised that was something just not to be repeated."

Mrs Donnelly said she had always thought the child she adopted out was Mr Abbott's because they had not used contraception, while she and Bill had.

"Tony and I, because we were trying not to be sexual - that was the year Tony was thinking about entering the priesthood - we were playing Vatican roulette," she said.

Funny mob

Mrs Donnelly said Bill wanted to remain private. His family only learnt the news as it broke in the media on Monday.

"That's not to say Bill's not a terrific person, he is a terrific person, but in an oddball kind of way we've been a dysfunctional little family."

Funny mob indeed, but now Tony and the whole family are destined to stand on their heads all because Tony was a disfunctional Catholic because his mum didn't mind him proper - THE END

RObert, "I struggle to see any valid case for leaving sleeping children unattended in a secure place for a period being a chargeable offense while much more dangerous failings are not acted on."

Two wrongs don't make a right. This is not an example of the Nanny State being unduly concerned about a low risk. It is medium to high risk overall risk: medium (at least) likelihood that something could go wrong and the consequences of the common risks are medium to high (ie injury or death).

Also, a poor diet is not suddenly fatal like a house fire, or playing with a hair-dryer in a wet area, just like mum. Young children cannot be relied upon to control the risks of modern living (pills, electricity and so on) and even if asleep, they do wake up (but not in response to fire alarms some might add).

I called the fire brigade and rushed in my work car to the home of a staff member who was unlucky enough that her two school-age sons (6 and 8) decided to cook some sausages after school - too much fat, a plastic plate and tea towel too close. They had never touched the stove before. I answered mum's work number and told them no worries about the house or anything, just get straight out of the house, save each other and go to the footpath. These were smart, practical kids and the biggest risk was that they wanted to save mum's precious items, some of which they couldn't find. Mum had been delayed getting a few essentials for on the way home. They might have hung up without telling me what was wrong if they had not known me.

When we say grace, to we thank the lord for the life he's given us?
Do we thank for all the love we have in our lives, and not the money and possessions?
Knowledge is wealth, ignorance is bliss.
Sometimes I wish I was born simple, not a care in the world.
Don't you? It's what we know that makes us different.
Most contributors here know a lot from what I notice, alot of good advice, suggestions, discussions.
I've been thinking, maybe the next step government would consider is to put us all in those anti-germ balls? No risk then.

The laws are created because of mistakes made by others. Somehow authorities assume that each individual human being are the same? THey have the right to make us abide to these law. We cannot change it as an individual? Or can we?

I was less then 5 mins walk from home using the internet, and I told the cops I wanted to go back because my kids are home. Good learning experience. Now not only do I have to waste time going for a number of hearings, I have to keep my mouth shut about my opinions.

Those who are trouble makers, like me, when you try to change the laws, they will shut you up. How many times has it happen in the past. Conspiracy theories, rallies, protest, etc. It is a lot easier to do it behind a computer, but does it change anything?

Yes this makes a difference. It makes a difference to those people who care enough about trying to change the wrongs. It makes us aware what is out there, what is happening, what might happen in our future, our children's future. Don't you start worrying when you think about it?

You choose your PM, yet so many are not happy. Why hasn't anyone done anything about it then? At least the PM(s) had the drive to become one. I'm sure they(ex) all worked hard for to get there. Whether or not they are doing the right thing is another issue. I am certain there are some in the ministry that is trying to fight the system, I can imagine, it would feel like you are trying to fight the whole world. Easier to sit back and just watch it being destroyed....

Easier to be a spectator then a player. Which one are you?

R0bert: Do you mean that I am making the vile attacks? I apologize for that. For me, it's called expressing, which I think I am entitled to. I am not saying somebody is that, I suggest, and I try to understand why someone would say things like that. There is a big possibility I am wrong as I do not know anyone here. So, I am sorry for that.

Divorce Doctor: Nice to hear from you again. You are very interesting. I would like to ask, why is the PM's private life/childhood and personal decisions in his private life a subject of discussion to the public? Would you like if it was you in the papers and everyone else discussing and judging you when they do not even know you? I'm not attacking you, so please don't get me wrong.

Cornflower: As I have mentioned, I already admitted to my mistake and I am being extremely careful(more like obsessed) with the kids. I agree with what you posted last here. Thank you.

jinny, "Do you mean that I am making the vile attacks?" - not, not you. I was responding to this post http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4001#99481 . The idea of stoning someone (or worse) reflects a world view that I find very repulsive.

Cornflower two wrongs don't make a right but I do think that there the government intevenes it has to be seen to being reasonably even handed and that does not seem to be the case here.
There is a safety issue with young kid's alone but if they are asleep not all that big unless they are likely to wake up. Compared to the risks in a lot of other choices which we tolerate they seem quite low to me. Some of the same risks exist with the parent at home but asleep.

Did you see Q&A earlier in the week? One of the guests was a NYC columist who caused a big stir by allowing her son to make his own way home from a shop in New York. A different scenario to this but some similar elements.

I grew up on a farm which both parents worked. There were plenty of times my brother and I were in the house while our parents were doing work elsewhere on the property. It was part of life.

R0bert