We mostly will have seen that TV show, the one with little girls made up to look like adults.
Strutting like,,sexy adults.
Do many share my concerns?
Can these mums and dads not know these shows are magnets for pedophiles?
What future impact on these children.
I think no child should be made to look like this and maybe some deaths can be attributed to such mums.

Yeah I agree Belly - not so much from being a magnet to pedophiles but more that children are put under pressure to be beauty queens rather than enjoy their childhood for as long as possible. Sexualisation of children is still a big issue but at least some people are talking about it.

Sadly, some parents see their children as a plaything for their own amusement and status, rather than the mental wellbeing of their children.

I remember once watching an interview with a parent of a child beauty queen and the mother talking about what a self confidence building exercise it was for her child, and when the child was interviewed she came across as nothing but anxiety driven and parrotting the self-fulfilling nonsense of her parents. It was a sad sight.

Nothing's going to discourage paedophiles from going after kids. Playgrounds, adventure parks, schools, youth groups, beaches, swimming pools etc etc, and really, in the end, all we can do is educate our kids on recognising various things that may indicate a predator and danger for them.

These kids 'beauty' contests - assuming that's what "baby dolls" are - are like what pelican said but getting rid of them isn't goingto make the world a safer place for kids. They're damaging, and don't need to be in existence, but don't stop things BECAUSE OF paedophiles.

Belly, America comes with bells and whistles and worst of all they take themselves seriously when it comes to social climbing. Not a great combination when being viewed from a laid back place such as OZ. There is a need for America's middle class to be seen as prominent amongst their peers and if that comes from exploiting their child then so be it.

The parents will of course say that they are building a future for the child but it is the personal kudos and perhaps the cash rewards they receive that drives them to preen pluck and paint their children for public exhibition, not the future prospects of the child. American folklore about the local town beauty queen getting on the Greyhound and heading for Hollywood is a fact and the fame and riches that flow from that is the goal, the American dream, I can get by on my looks.

Belly we have eisteddfods and dancing recitals etc but the competitive nature of the events is down played with parents certainly wanting their children to do well but it is not the end of the parents or child’s life if they don't.

Fanatical footy mums and dads is about as close as we come to a group of parents who live through the achievements of their children and there is generally no money motivation in that scenario, it is a macho thing not a social or financial thing with us.

These child beauty contests sexualise kids.

The contests themselves don't attract pedophiles ie. pedophiles don't hang around the stage door etc. But, the social and sexual attitudes that bring about the existence of these types of contests DO attract pedophiles. Pedophiles tend to go after everyday type children that they have easy and trusted access to; that's why the vast majority of pedophiles are relatives or carers of the children. This would still exist if child beauty contests didn't exist, but they sure don't help, and they tend to legitimise the sexualisation of children because they are perfectly legal.

I usually only turn my TV on for a little of the motor sport, & the odd news, & weather report.

I never realised they had such discerning stuff on these days. Should I turn it on more often?

Dear Belly,

We should all be concerned.

Beauty pageants are going too far.
Bralettes for girls as young as 3.
Bras for 8 year olds. Lip gloss for
six year olds. Fashion and gossip
magazines for girls aged five.
Good heavens, where does it stop?

Having magazines with headings like,
"Hot! Hot! Hot!" tied to photos of
little girls. What sort of message
does that send out?

We're talking about children here for
heavens sake, how are they going to develop
naturally when the pressure is placed
on them to behave like adults?

This sexualisation places these children at
risk in so many ways - not only from adult
predators but the pressure to be "perfect"
encourages the kids to want to be thinner
at an age when they're growing and nutrition
is crucial. They run the risk of developing
eating disorders, self-esteem issues - and
many other mental disorders.
Why can't they just be allowed to be kids?

I find any parent that encourages this sort of
behaviour in their child should have psychological
counselling.

I don't like seeing the little girls portrayed as older teenagers on stage either. However, if we were to ban such pageants, then where would it all stop? Paedophiles have been around long before we had beauty pageants, so they are not really a result of these shows.

We also have both boys and girls strutting their stuff on runways, in magazines and catalogues as models. Isn't this more of the same thing?

Kids have been playing 'dressups' as adults for many, many years.
Little girls watch mum get dressed up and put makeup on, and then love to emulate her.

Some parents also seem to condone little boys acting as men at times, by allowing them to play violent games, or giving them play guns or other violent weapons meant for adults.
Some boys also go out with Dad and the boys to learn how to shoot real guns. This is dreadful too.

I don't know what the answer is, but I think it is all too late now.

My concerns are not pedophilia only, or even mostly.
Hasbeen your humor was a bit off.
Now we Aussies have our own problems giving children beer or laughing at them swearing.
But this American,well the most we see is from that country, is a real
concern.
Girls as young as 3 in full makeup and dancing not unlike an adult at a male club.
Are the mums using or abusing them, yes both.
A now late teen girl spoke like a 3 year old and seemed damaged by mums efforts to relive her childhood via her child
The show seems to be crafted to show the mums in a bad light.
It does that for me, st Geo pedophiles would watch this show.

And just when you thought humans could not make themselves look any more stupid.lol.

I rest my case.

TTM.

Jon-benet Ramsay was a young child encouraged to dress up and wear make-up publicly, to enter beauty contests and mix with a variety of adults at a vulnerable tender and innocent age. [A baby].

That little girl would have been 20 years old this year. Jon-Benet's life should have served as a warning to all loving parents who want quality of life and life for their children. No judgement on the parents here, as no parent will ever get it right.

Over the past 20 years there has been sufficient education in the way of programs, the internet news stories, the newspapers - most media outlets, educating and making parents aware of the negatives and risks associated with their young children dressing up in provocative clothing and being entered in well publicised modelling pageants, beauty contests and events.

There are dancing competitions [inclusive of dressing up and using makeup] in addition to sufficient competition within a wonderful variety of sports that should take precedence to young childrens beauty pageants.

Think than move it is not clear what you thin who are you referring to?
Baby doll, my way of charging the mothers with neglect, and trying to turn a child in to a living toy.
Human rights, a child's right to be a child, are a question here.
I did not see many dads in the few minutes of the show I watched.
It can not be ignored, children are being sexualized here.
What else can describe it, Joe Beth, those of us who cringed at her death at the impact on her family, the false confessions, surely others shared my concern her killer may have been attacked by her mothers refusal to let the child be a child.
Once mum and dad inspected teen age girls before they went out, once make up was for middle teen years, surely for all the reasons that I am concerned for these children.

Americans are weird in the diversity of moral and practical thought they display. A commonality of a middle class, church going, community spirited, PTA attending mum dressing her child up like a whore to parade around for social and financial gain is despicable, but they do not see it that way.

The American culture is based on sexual promotion through perceived beauty. We Aussies do not have a culture that is as strongly influenced on the perception of beauty as do the Yanks, they have had beautiful baby and child pageants for almost a century, each town has its beauty queen and they range their communal activities around it. So I do not think the Yanks see it as detrimental they see it as positive and a part of their culture, like showing dogs. That is not to say that perverts who crave complete power over their victims do not look forward to the rubbish shows now on TV.

Belly.

I would love to chat with you on this subject, but today,s people on this planet and their outrageous behaviors concerning the up-bring of children, well as soon as you can work them out for me, please let me know.

"I did not see many dads in the few minutes of the show I watched."

'and you find this unusually behavior for men?

The mother's apparently think its fine to make their female children look like sluts and the children are all going to follow the likes of Paris Hilton, Lindsay lohan etc. Its the brain washing of the USA that people in the western world that's doing the damage.

Because of the T.V internet and etc, my own children were starting to even talk like yanks and I put a stop to that quick smart.

I said to mine, your born this country and don't you forget it!

I was getting the sh@ts with that word "and like" and if I could only stop them from shows like The Simpson and family guy,etc that would be haft the problem over, "but like" as soon as you can work humans beings out for me, please give me a call.

TT

I now understand think than move, and agree with every word, including sluts.
American culture is infectious.
I even think some of its things my generation adopted got me too.
I find the country hard to describe.
On one hand they help so many and are the defender of western life style, but the other sees this miss treatment of young girls.
We, all of us, try to make children be as we want them.
I tried educating those I raised to be proud Aussies, but did not inflict my every view on them.
How can, tell me, Americans let this happen to children who should be dirty faced tom boys?

How can, tell me, Americans let this happen to children who should be dirty faced tom boys?

I don't know, you tell me. Maybe the Hollywood affect could explain some of the actions with the great American EGO, not that I dislike the yanks, more their out-look to most things which appears to be self-destructive behaviors and lack of discipline, not to mention their pushy religious in your face bull-dust which as reshaped the Australian way of life as it was seen over a period right through the 19th century.

Americans are weird in the diversity of moral and practical thought they display. A commonality of a middle class, church going, community spirited, PTA attending mum dressing her child up like a whore to parade around for social and financial gain is despicable, but they do not see it that way.

The American culture is based on sexual promotion through perceived beauty. We Aussies do not have a culture that is as strongly influenced on the perception of beauty as do the Yanks, they have had beautiful baby and child pageants for almost a century, each town has its beauty queen and they range their communal activities around it. So I do not think the Yanks see it as detrimental they see it as positive and a part of their culture, like showing dogs. That is not to say that perverts who crave complete power over their victims do not look forward to the rubbish shows now on TV.
Posted by sonofgloin, Sunday, 26 September 2010 2:59:50 PM

And that above will say the rest.

Smile

TT

Ok belly, just read some of the comments to this link.

And you tell me if you want this here?

http://www.lostateminor.com/2010/03/17/high-glitz/

It is totally wrong and I will not except this ,not for my kids.

And this the type of American crap Iam talking about, and yes its here as well.

Just pure poison.

TT

Might not be quite here yet but it'd close

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/melbourne-beauty-pageant-will-see-young-kids-judged-on-smiles-posture/story-e6frf7jo-1225850668097

R0bert

I think it's interesting how people seem to think it's ok to send their kid to the Institute of Sport, or to selective schools, but somehow it's frowned upon to send your kid to a beauty pageant.

All three go under the banner of natural gifts, but it seems if your natural gift is beauty you're not supposed to make the most of it.

pelican,

'I remember once watching an interview with a parent of a child beauty queen and the mother talking about what a self confidence building exercise it was for her child, and when the child was interviewed she came across as nothing but anxiety driven and parrotting the self-fulfilling nonsense of her parents. It was a sad sight.'

I can imagine that. Perhaps it was really a self confidence exercise for the mother.

I often have people asking if my stunningly beautiful and ridiculously cute daughter could make me some money. I cant see how I would fit those kind of activities into my life.

I really don't want to support the modelling and TV career of a 3 year old, and I try as much as possible to stop people gushing over her cuteness anyway. I don't want her to turn into a brat or get a big head or think her role in life is that of an ornament.

Even though these days parenting seems to be about helping your kids reach their fullest potential, if she were to show she was super intelligent or an amazing athlete, I would probably hold her back on that as well. I don't mind being a bad parent, neglecting the project that is my little genius for my own selfish goal of a happy well adjusted kid and a balanced life for her and the rest of the family.

Houlley
We are not talking about using one's natural gifts it is about timing and extreme behaviours. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Children IMO should be left to enjoy their childhood without bestowing on them the pressures of adults in competition - it is not only beauty pageants but other competitive pursuits as you point out.

We are all responsble for our children until they are old enough to start making decisions for themselves and not all of us will agree on what is best.

The behaviours of some of these pageant mums verge on child abuse IMO and where these sad little girls are made to feel like failures should they only make runner-up. The rest of their year is often spent getting ready for the next big talent/beauty quest.

Let children be children for as long as possible until they can start making decisions for themseleves.

'Family psychologist Andrew Fuller said pageants could lead to competition, anxiety and embarrassment.'

Heaven forbid we have competition. I'm sick of the idea of teaching kids everybody gets a prize. In real life, there is winning and losing. In real life, some people are smarter and more beautiful than others. What we should be teaching kids is it's ok not to win, and to deal with being 'average' (Which these days is a derogatory term). I heard a shocking statistic the other day; 50% of children are below average!

'"The risk is that they suddenly fear that their body shape is more important than their intellect."'

Hahahaa. There you have it. It's ok to be shallow when it comes to intelligence, but not when it comes to looks.

IS intellect more important than body shape? If so, isn't it sad because people can do more to improve their body shape than they can to improve their intellect.

Houlley
Re shallowness - you are arguing at cross purposes. You are a parent - you decide if you think beauty pageants are what you want your child to spend her time on. You clearly haven't taken this path. There is nothing wrong with a child being used in an Ad or as a model when they are modelling items fit for a child. It is the pageant circuit that is unhealthy and the continued pressure from ambitious parents for their kid to win that is controversial.

The same goes for the pressure on some kids to be academically gifted even if they are not born with a high intellect (or even if they are). The over-extended kid who goes to kiddygym, braingym, sportgym, readinggym, chessgym, musicgym just to prepare them for the best schools (more an American phenomenon than Australian).

I also share a dislike of the everyone needs to win a prize phenomena that has swept our schools, but that is not what we are talking about. Some introduction into competition activities is not necessarily a bad thing.

You ask is intellect more important than body shape? Neither are 'more' important - you are asking the wrong question. The gifts you are bestowed with are what they are.

Forcing young children into this level of competition is unhealthy where little girls are dressed up to compete and dress as sexually appealing women.

You are can't compare it to more low key competition like an egg and spoon race.

'You ask is intellect more important than body shape? Neither are 'more' important - you are asking the wrong question. '

It was a rhetorical question. A response to the statement by a 'psychologist'.

I don't understand if you accept or refute my assertion that society deems it ok to celebrate intellect and to applaud those who aspire to greater intelligence, but denigrates those who use their natural beauty and aspire to greater beauty.

Its thought the beautiful are cashing in on an advantage and aren't having to work for it, but the same is never said about the intelligent who are also cashing in on a natural gift. In fact when the beautiful do cash in, they are assumed stupid and taunted for being stupid. How's that for irony.

'There is nothing wrong with a child being used in an Ad or as a model when they are modelling items fit for a child.'

Then there is nothing wrong with kids working in a construction site as long as all the safety requirements are there.

'Forcing young children into this level of competition is unhealthy where little girls are dressed up to compete and dress as sexually appealing women.'

Are they though? In the child's mind, are they looking to be sexy? I think they're looking to be beautiful, and wear beautiful clothes. Beautiful isn't necessarily sexy. I think adults may feel uncomfortable because they have dirty minds. Do they fear their own attraction to the beauty as being a sexual attraction? I think that's all very Catholic.

When a little boy dresses in a batman costume with fake muscles, is the same dynamic at play? Why doesn't anybody care about that?

Hi all and 'BELLY'...

I totally agree with you Belly and many others. Why don't they allow children to be children, with all the protections that, that entails !

Recently, we had a 'so called' famous photographer taking 'photos of younger girls in revealing apparel or even less, if my memory serves me correctly ?

Why oh why can't we, at the very least, protect our young ? This world is absolutely bulging with any amount of aberrant, anomalous, and deviant individuals, seeking to destroy those young lives, and yes, some even in the name of artistic licence ?

Trouble is people, we live in a great country with WEAK politicians; WEAK laws; with a WEAK judiciary, and dispensing WEAK justice !

Until we ensure that our pathetic political leaders do OUR bidding, nothing will ever change.

You know what ? No 'pollie' will ever have the guts to effectively toughen-up on crime. Essentially, all they do is talk with little action.

Cheers...Sung wu

I agree with Houellebecq's point.

The connection between beauty and sex is in the mind of the adults, the children want to have fun and feel beautiful, in the same way that they do when they smear mummy's lipstick on their face and clump around in oversized high heels.
Having said that, there is a difference between fun at home and pageants. I don't agree with the savage competition involved, or the connection that beauty is everything (this is a contradiction. The public supports beauty with their fake tans and need to be slim, but condemns it when a person rely's on it)but to condemn beauty pageants because of pedophiles is slightly ignorant, they're everywhere and they will just as easily fantasise over the kids at the beach

Soccer mums, ballet mums, beauty pageant mums... sheesh, there will always be some that overdo it. I wouldnt agonise over whether some sicko is getting a kick out of it, as the sicko will get his kicks from a variety of sources including perving at the beach like somebody else said, and maybe even advertising material or junk mail.

Gday o sung wo, knowing you worked in an area my family has roots in I spent some of my childhood reminds me of a horrible Evey.
The rape and murder of a young girl in Arena road Bargo.
Most of us are not sexually attacked to children.
Most of these kids are under 6 years old, many only three years old.
ANYONE who has seen this show surely knows mums train these kids to dance and perform [boys too] put them selves on display not unlike strip club dancers.
How many murders of children? too many but this is complex .
Why not let the children grow up by them selves, are the mums in love with the kids or reliving their life via them.
Any one doubt pedophiles watch this show feed on it?

Hi again BELLY...

Yes indeed, I do know the area to which you refer. Personally, I've not been involved in any murder inquiries in that particular patrol District. However, I have been involved in a couple of very serious sexual assault matters. Around the Bargo,Picton and environs.

Being an area of much bushland, tends to accommodate these types of offenders.

And I agree, we as adults MUST protect our children, and if we can't do that...well I really don't know ?

Cheers...Sung Wu.

It's funny you know, some times you have to wonder about the motives that people have to even write threads like this. mmmmmmmm

It makes you wonder.

Hypocrites, Hypocrites, Hypocrites.

Now you see what humans are.

Well done Belly, I agree with all of what you said.

And of course the human race has one single sence of reality.

Yes im a bad woman for thinking these things.

since you males are the dirty rotten bastards that commits these crimes.

I hope you all sleep well.

TTM

And how many police have been charged with these offences. Even Tin Can and Cooloola coast is full of them apparently, but again dressing up in the way that how many people hit the link, and spiders are all around you. Jaws theme lol.

So where were we? Oh that's right The critical thoughts of a well balanced world.

Im going to give you a few more links to keep those members of the public excited with there true worth of value. Not that I mean any of this and do not take any offence to what i say, but more of a fundamental view of whose who in the zoo.

Im so glad that im gay, Belly do you want a date?

TTm>

TTM, some of us have experienced great loss as a result of assaults, family or friends children abducted raped or murdered. One of the first questions many police officers ask after a sexual assault is this: "how were you dressed"? The police know that a person should dress the way they please, and is in fact, no excuse for any assault, be it physically or mentally. However, evidence based upon experience and stats shows that there is a percentage of perpetrators who choose scantilly clad victims at the time [of assault].

Addressing programs and events showing young children scantilly clad for beauty pagents or modelling publicly in front of cameras/the media, television shows, is a highly caring, giving and responsible action and a step in the right direction towards protecting children.

I commend Belly and 'know' that Belly's character is that of protector and standing up for the rights of the downtrodden, defenceless, the young and innocent [children].

This subject should be raised regularly to make parents of young children aware of the number of negative consequences dressing young children inappropriately in front of the public and media [cameras].

Oh! hit a nerve did I!...........please continue.

TTM>

TTM, some of us have experienced great loss as a result of assaults, family or friends children abducted raped or murdered. One of the first questions many police officers ask after a sexual assault is this: "how were you dressed"? The police know that a person should dress the way they please, and is in fact, no excuse for any assault, be it physically or mentally. However, evidence based upon experience and stats shows that there is a percentage of perpetrators who choose scantilly clad victims at the time [of assault].

Addressing programs and events showing young children scantilly clad for beauty pagents or modelling publicly in front of cameras/the media, television shows, is a highly caring, giving and responsible action and a step in the right direction towards protecting children.

I commend Belly and 'know' that Belly's character is that of protector and standing up for the rights of the downtrodden, defenceless, the young and innocent [children].

This subject should be raised regularly to make parents of young children aware of the number of negative consequences dressing young children inappropriately in front of the public and media [cameras].

Very good then.

But who do you trust?

And more to the question, what can you trust.

I have made my point ever clear.

Do you wish to add anything else?

Or would the people of this fine up-standing society would like this in Australia?

Please tell me you don't.

TTM

The vast vast majority of kids abused are abused by a family member. Better start breaking into homes to get all those family videos of kids dressing up and dancing and playing in the bath. Or heaven forbid NAKED in the back yard! Sitting on the sprinkler!

TTM

Forgive me if I seem offensive but do you hate men? I ask because you seem to think all men are responsible for sexual abuse. What about the dirty rotten women who let it happen, or participate in the sickness.

From what I gathered NOBODY in this thread wants baby beauty pageants in Australia. It is just ignorant to dismiss the disapproval on the fact that it attracts pedophiles.
There is more to it than that.

TTM if you needed a feed I would give it to you.
A place to sleep for a few nights that too, no not especially nice bloke but I have known hunger.
Have known pain have nursed a one day old child in my arms after he was dumped in my back yard by his mum, my sister.
Raised him written to him after he went to prison, for pedophilia.;
You may hate men you may need help.
I will not give you one thing, no more of my time.
You may be having a bad day or a bad life, self help is your only chance.
Howler, we do not like one another but I have never doubted your intelligence.
In a year and a bit, in what ever forum I inhabit, I want to share my work life.
The tragic lives of some children, these kids tell me mate please let us try to talk, have you seen the show?
Do you truly think because far too many pedophiles exist we need not be concerned about this.
In another forum long ago, a few of us found a poster with a history of defending child sex was in fact a member of a group supporting this crime against humanity.

Yes, Belly I was having a bad day and no I don't hate men and no I have not seen the show. The level of paranoia in today's society has increased ten fold with these pedophiles and you have just raised a good point about the professionals men and some women are in fact are the larger groups that have charged in relation to these offenses.

And I did say'

'Not that I mean any of this and do not take any offense to what i say' but more of a fundamental view of whose who in the zoo."

And this is what I mean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sportspeople_convicted_of_crimes

http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/bccrime.html

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_06_190905/sul10338_fm.html

And I will say again, who do you trust in today's world?

And again members have avoided my questions, Do the Australian people this in this country?

Just more Yank poison, Toddlers in tiaras. Just give it a watch.

It just might change your mind on a lot of levels.

TTM

Do the Australian people this in this country?

Sorry, I mean to say.....Do the Australian people want this sort of contests in this country?

TTM.

That show is the one this thread is based on.
Now loving a child should be about love care mentoring being there for them.
Putting them on stage? frantic teaching them to act, so as to be? what? best cat ins how?
Are children nothing more than the painted dogs and cats some use to charge over active egos.
Has damage happened because kids are told to act before how to play.

Thanks Belly.

It all goes back to how much Yank Crap is being rammed down the throats of the Australian people, and not only youths, but mums and dads as well. Quite frankly, Iam sick and tired of their manipulative brain-washing that all are subjected to here in Oz. Because of the US programing, Australian mums are going to copy ( I fear ) to this USA way of life.

The world is changing fast! and its not only the yanks at play, its the world telling the Australian people how to think and act.

If it comes to Australia, it will be a sad day indeed.

TT

We most of us, may share the view we adopt too much from American culture but would Russia or China be better?
Remember no country is not in some way having a minority of parents who think children are baby dolls.