Benk

>>> What if we really liked the woman, thought that we should be principled and leave her alone and watched as some other bloke broke all the rules and got the girl? <<<

"got the girl"? ? ? Could you please elaborate just what you mean by this?

I generally choose if I am interested in someone - no-one has ever "gotten" me - at least not without using force.

What has escaped your notice, Benk, is that women can think for themselves - women (or men) may make bad choices or good ones, but they are OUR choices.

Benk

"If you want a simple rule, try "if how cute he is matters, then it isn't sexual harassment." Behaviour is either acceptable for everyone or for no-one."

Looks are irrelevant.

If a man or woman is having sex with a co-worker that does not imply she/he should have sex with everyone in the office, nor is it an invitation to do so.

Women and men have the right to refuse approaches from anyone they are not attracted to. If a woman or man accepts a particular behaviour from one person but not from another that is their right. It works both ways.

Safest bet is to keep overt sexual behaviour out of the office - afterall we are paid to work not to use it as a pick up joint.

Bottom line is it comes down to manners and showing respect and those rules can be applied even if someone is interested in getting to know a co-worker more than just a friend.

What I am complaining about is the way that some women choose to say things like "safest bet is to keep overt sexual behaviour out of the office," as though they have a moral objections to any men who flirt with co-workers. In reality, they just aren’t attracted to the particular bloke. His behaviour is getting criticised, but it would be fine if he was cuter. Don’t criticise the morality of people when you are really judging other qualities. It is immoral and undermines the credibility of this cause.

I also dislike women who choose to have relationships with blokes after they have acted disinterested. It encourages the belief that men are expected to be persistent and ignore her efforts to get him to stop. Severin may well “generally choose if I am interested in someone." However, her choice partly reflects their behaviour. Don't be surprised if less cute blokes copy their behaviour, which may or may not include persistence.

While “women (or men) may make bad choices or good ones, but they are OUR choices”, lets not be so non-judgemental about women's choices that we won't discuss consequences of the choices. Some choices make the world a worse place for women and cannot be defended by freedom of choice type arguments. Feminism isn’t simply a general purpose excuse for Severin or any other women to do whatever they want. There should be an expectation on all people that their choices make the world a better place for others.

Of course "women and men have the right to refuse approaches from anyone they are not attracted to." However, no-one has a right to complain about a problem that they have helped to create. Lets all do everything that we can to fix this problem.

Benk, I am still genuinely puzzled as to where you are coming from.
Are you talking about men and women attracting each other in the wider community, or in the workforce, as the thread highlights?

From what you are saying, our workplaces are veritable cesspools of sexual chemistry and angst!
Saying that women shouldn't flirt with 'cute' men and then turn down supposedly plain men who also try to flirt with them is really a bit much.

One woman's 'cute' is another woman's puke you know.
If this were not the case, then surely the more plain men among us would never have girlfriends would they?

There are far more attractive aspects of men than just a handsome face or well-built body. Most women are far too bright, on the whole, to be swayed by a 'cute' male in the long run.

You are selling yourself and other men short if you don't believe this.

Suze

"Are you talking about men and women attracting each other in the wider community, or in the workforce, as the thread highlights?"

I was thinking about the workforce, but there are rules and conventions that regulate the sexual behaviour of men in other contexts and they all have the problem of being inconsistently applied.

"Saying that women shouldn't flirt with 'cute' men and then turn down supposedly plain men who also try to flirt with them is really a bit much."

I agree, that is why I didn't say that. I did say that people shouldn't choose to judge certain behaviour as out of line sometimes, but not at other times.

"One woman's 'cute' is another woman's puke you know.
If this were not the case, then surely the more plain men among us would never have girlfriends would they?"

Are you really that arrogant? All of us need to make compromises to keep our standards realistic.

Benk <"Are you really that arrogant? All of us need to make compromises to keep our standards realistic."

No not arrogant Benk, just a little more open-minded than you seem to be.

By compromises, I assume you mean that 'plain' guys and girls just have to 'settle' for the less cute among us. What a very sad view you have of romance Benk!

I am sure we have all seen supposedly cute people living with and loving those more regular people?
How would you categorize those people then Benk?

How about those people who divorce or break up with supposedly cute people and then take up with someone less than perfect in your eyes?

The answer is LOVE Benk!

Open your eyes and check out some more couples in the community around you. You can't place everyone in your 'compromise' box can you?

While I am sure some people get together initially because of physical attraction to so-called 'cute' people, luckily many people are not that shallow, and are attracted to others for various reasons.