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The Forum > General Discussion > Recriminations and finger pointing begin in Labor.

Recriminations and finger pointing begin in Labor.

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Even with the edict from on high to present a unified front and an image of stability, already the knives are out.

On the chopping block are the necks of Anna Bligh and Karl Bitar, while Kristina Keneally is safe only because no one want captaincy on the Titanic that is NSW Labor.

This catharsis that Labor is going through might help provide Australia with a capable alternative to the coalition by cutting out the deadwood incompetents. Unfortunately this includes Julia Gillard, Peter Garrett, Wayne Swan, and most of the state Labor.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 23 August 2010 11:17:19 AM
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Come on Graham. Why do you keep allowing SM to keep posting this biased rubbish. It makes OLO look bad.
Posted by mikk, Monday, 23 August 2010 1:17:35 PM
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Well mikk,

He lets you keep posting your biased rubbish.

My rubbish is based on reports in the news and yours?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 23 August 2010 2:05:17 PM
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SM,

Your posts are based on SOME of the reports...only those that favour your side.

The election is over how about you post something that isn't blindly partisan?

Your reasoning has had enough of a holiday or have you joined the dark side of zealotry like the *old* Policarp?
Posted by examinator, Monday, 23 August 2010 2:36:16 PM
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*YAWN*

Enough of the 'Today Tonight' media politics. What's next, you're going to start updating us all when one of the Hilton's land in Australia?. Rubbish like this is why people did everything they could not have to choose. This is why The Greens caught a chunk of the swing. As far as I can see the coalition didn't come out of it any better, like just took less of a hit.

Play for the long term betterment of the country, not the polls. That will get you a government.
Posted by StG, Monday, 23 August 2010 3:10:20 PM
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SM

The election results are clear warning to both Labor and the Liberals their policies aren't designed for the long term good of this nation.

If your posts are anything to gauge the Libs by, T-Bot & Co, have yet to learn anything. All I have heard from the T-Bot is some opportunistic talk about rethinking Broadband - which coincidentally is very much on the minds of our 3 rural independent MP's.

Time for the Libs to take some time for reflection, instead of such hypocritical stances as claiming the moral high ground when your party is as undesirable as Labor.
Posted by Johnny Rotten, Monday, 23 August 2010 4:05:58 PM
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Examinator,

Just a little rich coming from you.

These reports come from Labor and liberal leaning media. My purpose is to highlight the infighting and instability of the Labor party, however, what I post has a sound foundation, and can be found in just about every Australian publication.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 23 August 2010 4:22:10 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

It's time we stopped with the finger pointing
at only one political Party. The message is
loud and clear with the Election results and it
is directed at both Parties equally.

We can only hope that they do take time out
now for reflection - and finally realise that
Party allegiances should not matter more than
their constituents.

Hopefully, the final result of this Election
will give us a stronger Government and one that
will care more about the people of this country
than Party loyalties.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 23 August 2010 4:47:10 PM
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SM this time I agree with you.Labor are totally dysfunctional.Whiles the Libs cowtow to the Corporates,Labor does that and more.I think Labor is far more corrupt,have no fiscal responsibility,economic nous and have absolutely no consideration for the common good.

Their noses are so far in the trough that they fail to see their own foibles let alone where the nation should be headed.

If the Coalition get Govt,Labor will tear themselves to pieces and that will bring a smirk to many a face including mine.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 23 August 2010 5:42:39 PM
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SM,
Give it a rest have you read about the nat in WA who want's to trash the Coalition ? today's news.

Likewise the news broadcasts drew attention to Barney losing his banana, MM talking about Mandates do I mention the other rumblings within the lib/nat tent.

Again your bias is blinding you to the facts. in other areas I have described both parties as a farm yard of chooks .
Just because I balk at your extreme views doesn't mean I support Labor.
I am anti parties, all parties and if you had read my posts you would have had that fact hit you in the face.
It is you that is stuck on the x-y axis not I
Posted by examinator, Monday, 23 August 2010 5:49:15 PM
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Actually i think you have a point SM. Only problem is that you miss the point that the lib's are no better and are more than capable of self destruction, if labor forms government watch the ritual killings start. Just look at the last two NSW elections, the lib's were a shoe in but managed to destroy themselves just before the finnish line.
On reflection of things i would say that NSW right politics of both the main parties has a lot to answer for in both NSW and Federal politics over the past couple of decades.
The problem that we are now left with is how it will all pan out federally. No sweat that the NSW government is gone and thankyou, but it is not too late for Anna Bligh so you must accept she is trying to save her job and rite the ship.
Actually can someone that is not completely bias on the subject explain exactly what QLD labor did that was so wrong beside use John Howards policy of sell the kitchen sink. Labor really needs a new advertising company they really couldn't sell cold drinks on a summers day. Of course it could be the old problem that they have been there too long and the administration is starting to smell.
Posted by nairbe, Monday, 23 August 2010 7:21:05 PM
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As I predicted, labor has lost, just not badly enough to forefiet government yet.

The irony is that much of the protest vote against labor went to the greens, yet, the greens are in bed with labor. Go figure!

It just goes to show that a large portion of the voting public have no real idea what they are voting for, for if they did, they would certainly not have voted for the greens, knowing they would ultimately be supporting labor in any case.

I think it is time that ALL PARTIES, large and small, must make thier preferences known prior to the election. At least then a person voting for party X will actually know who they are voting for.

I also feel this shows that compulsory voting is wrong, as there would have been plenty of voters who voted green, out of sheer protest, when infact, they would most likey not have voted at all.

JG and the labor party have been thrashed, they just won't acknowledge it.

BTW, thanks anna, you're a darl!
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 7:03:13 AM
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Sorry but I will never ever agree with running to GY about shadow minister.
I find the bloke amusing and yes biased but GY is a conservative and hears much like this every day.
good to see rechtub in agreeing with SM do exactly what we ALP voters are charged with .got to laugh.
this hung Parliament is not a party's fault we voted not the party's.
in my view it is just great for Australia and my party we needed to understand politics not personality's rule.
Know my opinions have been of the mark but this election is the Greens high water mark.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 7:13:17 AM
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/anna-bligh-puts-blame-on-labor-machine/story-fn59niix-1225909126874

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/pm-bans-powerbroker-arbib-from-appearing-on-qa-20100824-13ium.html

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/labor-unity-under-question-as-arbib-cancels-tv-spot-20100823-13in4.html

All headlines today. Need I say more?

Perhaps you should complain to these editors of bias.

Why would the independents like to join the snake pit that is Labor?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 7:52:46 AM
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I don't believe the Liberal Party has distinguished itself in any profound sense in this election. As has been pointed out, most of the protest vote went to the Greens. Disillusionment in Labor and Gillard was matched by the perception that Abbott is a second tier leader leading a collection of personalities that mirror the odium of the dispatched Howard team...even swinging voters that don't give much in-depth thought to their choice found the Liberals unacceptable.
I have voted Green in the upper house for yonks and in my seat we have been represented by a Green candidate for many years - this time I voted Green in the house of reps - not a difficult decision as I'm in a safe Liberal lower house seat.
This outcome can only be a good thing for the Australian politics...a bit of a slap in the face for the arrogance of a two party dominated system is just what the doctor ordered.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 8:01:44 AM
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Well said, Poirot.

My thoughts exactly.

What we have experienced last weekend IS democracy at work. The question which needs to be asked is whether either the Libs or Labor can learn just why so many turned to the Greens, just what were the Greens offering that the major parties had failed to do so?

Items like compassion for asylum seekers, action on environmental pollution, equal rights for all people not just heterosexuals, public funding for public schools, effective transport, comprehensive communication technology to link our wide brown land.... the list goes on.

Will they listen now?
Posted by Johnny Rotten, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 8:59:51 AM
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rehctub,
For those interested here is a website that shows the prefernce of candidates and parties.

But i agree this info should be made more available

http://www.belowtheline.org.au/
Posted by Banjo, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 9:00:17 AM
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Well said, Poirot and Johnny. One obvious result of the election is that the majority of Australian voters don't want a Coalition government, as evidenced by Labor's attraction of a majority of the two-party preferred vote. Another is that many former Labor voters reject the ALP's shift to the Right, as evidenced by their shift to the Greens.

This election should be seen as a loud wake-up call to the Laberals. Democracy is the real winner here.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 9:16:18 AM
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C.J.

You've hit the nail on the head. Labor's lurch so far to the right turned me off - that's when they lost me, particularly on the East Timor Solution.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 9:51:34 AM
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Democracy is not just about the party system. Parties are in some ways are a hindrance to democracy. The wishes of minorities are being ignored at the behest of whatever party is in power. No party or person has all the answers. We have a system that votes in one party and all the previous government has done is destroyed on the grounds of ideology. This is wasteful and does not make sense. Every new government should be building on the good of what went before it. Things should only be changed if they are no longer needed, circumstance changed or there are better ways of doing it.
Posted by Flo, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 11:10:50 AM
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Amen Flo.

As I said in Chook analogy the party system is dysfunctional unless we can instill an honest broker...sadly I don't think that is either the greens or the independent*S*

Annabel Crabb (the drum) summed up my take on both parties when she said that keeping parties in line is akin to "keeping an octopus in a string bag "I would add in a salt water aquarium".
Her article encapsulates other reports highlighting the internecine piranhas in the Liberal tent too.

Personally Chooks will be chooks.
Posted by examinator, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 12:29:59 PM
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Keep up the good work SM, anyone who annoys the likes of mikk and exanimator must be doing something worthwhile.

And I see we have the usual claims by some to ‘bias’ on the site because the left cannot handle a dissenting view, such is the intolerance of socialists. Say something they disagree with and automatically the “foul” card is played. Oh how history continues to repeat itself, leftwing intolerance; there seems to be no depth to which the lefties will not plummet.

To those who think the liberal party showed a poor result... well, it is a better result than Gizzards can claim to have produced and lets face it, with Rudd going off to UN soon, the spectre of a by-election and another loss to Liberals must hang heavily on labor power-mongers.

Of course, as was seen during the election canvassing, Kevin07 is now a loose cannon.

They said he was a man without a faction.

Now the labour factions have to contend with the fall out of his lack of allegiance to anyt of them and I figure Kevin07 is a man who likes his revenge served cold.

Anyway, we will see, Katter, albeit blessed with a singular, parochial mind, will sooner choke than make a deal with labor and i suspect the other indies, except the bilious green will follow him.

Abbott has a chance of making a short term government work for the Liberals but Gizzards has no hope of making it happen and even if she did, she will not last to the next election. The Union bosses will turf her out soon enough.

That is always the way with labor/socialists .... change the leader like they change their underwear... at least once a month.

Poirot “Labor's lurch so far to the right turned me off”

Yep “me-too” all over again... follow the Liberals and pretend their different.

Personally, I voted for the original...

not the “pretend-to-be-look-alikes” who, as Garrett declared in the last election.... “”Labor would simply change all their policies once they got into power.”
Posted by Col Rouge, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 12:35:32 PM
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Our reliance on voting for a party has made voters lazy. In yester year, the parties did represent the views of many voters. This is not true today. The proof of this is in the number of members each party has. There is no grassroots to form policy in either party. There are scarcely enough members to hand out pamphlets on Election Day. What I do not know is how each party develop policy. We might have faceless men but do we also have ghosts as well. We elect members not parties.
Posted by Flo, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 2:03:04 PM
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I haven't heard a single person say they voted for the Greens because of their policies. Almost universally, the comment is along the lines of "Labor's hopeless, but I can't bring myself to vote Liberal [or vice versa] so I gave it to the [Greens, Independent, little wo/man in the corner]"

I'm enjoying watching from the sideline.
Posted by Antiseptic, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 4:02:05 PM
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Keep it up *Shadow* nothing like a bit of verbal S & M between the Liberal and Labour party to improve the GREEN'S standing.

HaHaHa

Aaah, and a beautiful thing to behold with the ALP being gutted like a rotten fish. Absolutely magnificent. And, whilst I am not oft to agree with the likes of J.Howard, I also do believe that T-Bot put in a great effort, and was rewarded by way of the primary vote.

..

As for the Greens and as said in another thread, I really quite like the idea of them being the "Heart" in the "Tin Man" so to speak, if indeed such a thing is possible.

More specifically, science reveals to us in the clear light of day the realities of climate change, but big business also needs to be brought to heel in a viable, transitional manner.

The best ones to do that, if they are willing, is the Liberal party and for the Greens to earn economic credentials by forging viable, reasonable and rationale solutions which also heads us rapidly towards a solution from the implacable clutches of the scientific predicament within which we find ourselves, would well and truly head them on the path of becoming a party of even greater significance than that which they already are.

"SPLASH!" as another huge glacial chunk in N.Z. falls.
Posted by DreamOn, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 4:02:54 PM
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OK Antiseptic I'll bite.

I voted for the Greens because they are the only party to offer policies on Climate change, sustainable technologies, equal human rights (for example same sex marriage)...... as I type this I am beginning to suspect you want to be spoon fed...

Check out The Greens policies for yourself:

http://greens.org.au/content/policy-initiatives-2010

All you have to do is click on the link - not too onerous for you?
Posted by Johnny Rotten, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 4:32:45 PM
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Greens did not cost us the election ,but have apart from NSW in March got their best ever, looking for wards too result.
Pumped up with pride at getting that minority vote remember one nation the Democrats and watch the fall of the greens
Shadow my old mate, you expose yourself to ridicule in every word.
You should see my ROFL!
The anti Labor swing in seats all over Australia saw greens votes in the lower house not counted ALP refugees fell for the protest thing and Liberals won over all majority's greens preference did not get counted.
Brilliantly stupid my ex ALP friends, bet you say you did not vote Liberal.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 6:05:25 PM
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“I haven't heard a single person say they voted for the Greens because of their policies”

I’m with you Anti, one of the most frequent comments I hear is: “I voted Green because Bob Brown looks or sounds like a nice bloke.”

And it’s probably just as well that Bob is so photogenic, since one or two of his team look decidedly shifty.
http://www.daylife.com/photo/06wZeQg8sv51e
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/galleries/2010/2990323/image.htm
(and it looked even worse in the live coverage!)

And yes I know you can't judge a person by their looks etc etc –but as just pointed out, people do.

Anyway ... all I'm trying to say is, while Bob may have fudged it with his good looks, I can't imagine too many saying they voted for the rest of his team because they looked cute-- No siree! the others in the Green team could only have gotten home on the basis of their policy pronouncements.

But the thing that's really funny & puzzling is : Why, on election night, when all the rest of the labour fraternity had long faces,was Kevin Rudd SO HAPPY?

He was positively bubbling over with glee. I can only think there must be something going on behind the scenes with regard to the federal leadership --Could there be a move to REINSTATE KEVIN?
Posted by Horus, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 9:09:18 PM
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Col commented on Rudd being the man without a faction. Gillard likewise is not a part of the largest ALP faction. I'm not sure how you can now argue about stable government, when in the last few months Labor has cannibalised an elected Prime Minister in the first term. Political views aside, it doesn't sit well with me that a party can remove a leader, then leak damaging information from within their own party, then turn around and promote the great stability they offer within the space of weeks.

As mentioned, Gillard isn't part of the largest ALP faction and is as susceptible as Rudd was to eviction from within. I'd like them to show me that she won't fall under the axe next time a couple of trade union bosses and power-brokers get flighty with her, before they start talking stability.

As for the Greens, I congratulate them on improving their vote. They certainly have come a long way in the last 10 years.. primarily because they have become more mainstream. This years was the first election I can recall where Greens in my area actively promoted policies on areas other than environmental issues. I'm not as worried as I would have been with them holding the balance of power as I would have been say 5 or 10 years ago. At least in my electorate they seem to be presenting some achievable short-mid term goals, instead of fanciful idealistic policies that only a party that has no chance of gaining Government can make, as they have in the past. Do I trust them? no. People naive enough to think they're not as power motivated as the red and blue team only need to look back to the Tasmanian state election of 2010, where the greens were literally willing to link up with any party possible to gain a piece of the pie, turn-coating on criticisms they'd had of both sides before the vote. This is a party trying to become what Liberal and Labor are, but with a lot less respect for the economy
Posted by Wilson, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 9:43:01 PM
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/coalition-edges-ahead-in-crucial-seats/story-fn3dxity-1225909594737

Things are looking increasingly slippery for Labor. Not only have they lost Denison, but Corangamite is looking increasingly slim with less than 400 votes separating the ALP and the Libs.

If the worst does happen, there is a possibility that the libs get 74 to Labor's 71, at which point it is all over.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 10:23:14 PM
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As no party has won the election, it should be decided on who 'lost' the election, and on that note, labor should bow out of the fight.

They have gone from a strong majority of '86' seats, to a possible '72, or 73'.

This is largely due to thier gross incompitence as a government.

JG should do the 'manly thing' and throw the towl in, as it is very clear that the 'people' simply don't want her and her party anymore.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 7:33:58 AM
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rehctub,

It seems to me that the "people" simply didn't want either of 'em.
We should lament the dearth of leadership talent and a system which turns itself into a self-serving carnival of bribery and insincerity and calls itself an "election campaign".
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 8:06:24 AM
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Sarah Hanson Young is the epitome of everything I cant stand about the Greens. I cant stand her ever since seeing her ridiculous ranting on Q&A and the pious smugness she showed on the election coverage.

Bob's a good bloke though. It was good to see the old guy try to hold back a smile on the happiest day of his life.

I cant wait for the Greens to start using their powers, and everyone finding out how their idealistic naivety plays out in the real world.

A quote I remember fondly goes something remotely like 'Show me someone under 30 who is right wing, and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me someone over 30 who is left wing and I'll show you a dreamer with no brain.

'Kevin07 is a man who likes his revenge served cold.'

Good stuff Col. Welcome back!
Posted by Houellebecq, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 11:21:34 AM
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Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 24 August 2010 10:23:14 PM

" ... If the worst does happen, there is a possibility that the libs get 74 to Labor's 71, at which point it is all over. ... "

Indeed, but will they play old school and seek to intergrate 2 of Bob, Tony & Rob

OR

do something new, creative and futuristic and integrate Adam & Andrew, with a cabinet seat for each, say enviro & defence & most importantly, have them in the front line to communicate with the Green Senate.

..

I can't express how much I am enjoying observing all of this, albeit admittedly from a somewhat limited vantage point.
Posted by DreamOn, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 12:46:36 PM
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Houellebecq,

Damn and botheration, I *almost* agree with You about Sarah Hanson Young's painfully naive,inept performances even on ABC 4 this morning. She showed the worst sense of political timing and sense I've in recent years....then again it could have been ABC editing. They had just announced another Aussie death in Afghanistan and she came on spruiking Greens opposition to the campaign and their call for a debate! (to think we're paying her a pile of money for her ineptitude).

CJ she is SO GREEN (both meanings) she should be kept away from public comment, she is an embarrassment and a negative to the Green cause.
She isn't a Stott-Despoja -?

Col,

It's good to see that Labor has done one thing right "caused you to be sick"....I suspect it was a fur ball from preening perhaps?
Posted by examinator, Wednesday, 25 August 2010 1:51:26 PM
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HB>>I cant wait for the Greens to start using their powers, and everyone finding out how their idealistic naivety plays out in the real world.

You can not be serious.

You quite obviously have no idea what the consequences is of the greens policies on almost everything.

Be carefull what you wish for.

Jobs, Jobs, and more Jobs are at huge risk.

Gay marriage is the least of our worries with this mob.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 27 August 2010 6:16:48 AM
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