"I asked a handful of people what gender the holy ghost is, all replied male"... well, they must all be a bit daft.

Father, Son and Holy Ghost... they are all the same as each other, God.

And God is genderless because God is simply 'God'.

Unexplainable by us, or else we could be God too.

So, less of the gender stuff please.

pelican:>> Are you serious sonofgloin - or are you tongue in cheek.<<

Serious in the premise but hopefully entertaining (but factual) in my presentation.

Pelican we who have sensibility know there is absolutely no difference in the ability of the genders, other than those governed by testosterone or estrogen. But my point is that the church as an organization has always had males at the upper echelons, as I said the religious and cultural aspects of that thought process are validated by the texts that governed the formation of the early church. Why should it change because of a gender equality issue that started in the late 20th century.

>> Women did not 'choose' government positions as a first priority necessarily, but government was the first major employer to encourage female applicants at a time highly discriminatory to women.<<

Absolutely, that’s what I said, but it was still a choice, the accommodating public service or the make your own way private sector. I would opt for the path of least resistance, but that transition was forty years ago and the private sector has embraced the positive discrimination practices of the government but women are not represented at top level in the private sector as they are in the govt. Does that draw us to any conclusions on choice of environment and accountability career women are prepared to submit to?

Re the male career predators, they tried everything to keep the girls down, but they lost, and died out, good riddance.

The Blue Cross:>> And God is genderless because God is simply 'God'.<<

Not so according to the bible:
Genesis 1:27
King James Bible
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;"

You may want god genderless but the texts say otherwise.

Dear Pelly,

You asked , "why do normally intelligent people
go along with this rot?"

It's an excellent question.

Most don't, but they choose to stay
within the faith and attempt to change things.

There is of course a great sense of alienation
amongst women. This is made abundantly clear
in, "Woman and Man. One in Christ Jesus,"
a comprehensive report on the participation of
women in the Australian Catholic church,
commissioned in August 1996 by the Australian
Catholic Bishops' Conference (ACBC). The process
involved the largest research and conultation project
ever undertaken by the Australian Catholic Church.
If nothing else, it indicated that there was a realisation
among bishops that something had to be done about
the relationship between women and Catholicism.

Dr Marie Macdonald spoke in August 1999 at the National
Press Club in Canberra, she was the co-ordinator of the
project, and the first Australian woman to
become a Doctor of Theology. She presented the Report
and told the media that during their hearings around
Australia she and her colleagues found:

"A strong sense of pain and alienation resulting from the
Church's stance on women. A dichotomous relationship with
the Church characterised by such feelings as love and
commitment yet anguish and alienation, was experienced by
both individuals and groups. Pain, alienation and often
anger resulted from a strong sense of women's marginalisation...
and lack of acknowledgement within the Church."

She spoke of people's feelings of frustration as they
tried to remain within the church, and of the sadness
of those who felt they had to leave over this issue.
"It was clear," she said, "that many people hope, but
in many cases it is faint."

Many women felt that they will not be pushed out of their
Church. They will not leave, because
by leaving, it would mean they lost the fight, and many
felt it was a cause worth fighting for.

That's why they stay and continue to chip away at the
hierarchy.

The following website may also be of interest:

http://www.womenpriests.org/interact/cuckoo1.asp

The Catholic Church it would seem is a long way from having women priests. Ordination of women is a breach of Canon Law:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/15/vatican-attempted-ordination-women-grave-crime

As noted, it is not merely an issue of what is right for the times, as is the case celibacy; the ordination of women is a significant religious crime.

An interesting dilemma for women in the Vatican team, eh Foxy?

As too for gay/lesbian people, and couples who use contraceptives.

A totally unyielding machine, run by men, says (according to my Dummies for Catholics) that it's not 'about gender' but 'tradition', and 'the word of God.

So, hanging around til change comes is a waste of time, because, according to Dummies, it is simply not possible to change the word of God.

The only sensible path is to give in, give up and succumb to the male God.

Of course, the other option is to denounce the male dominated machine as a total fraud, and set up a far more equal bizzo, that welcomed men and women, or women and men even.

But I can't see that it can be fixed for ever, and worth waiting for change.

The two do not compute