I'm also glad to have received the secret(thanks AJP), having been in awe myself, ever and anon, when some maestro of the medium transmigrates with such omnipresence. TBC; of course your infirm rellie forgot the "jumbo", the essential complement to mumbo.

Poirot,
this changes everything! Now I won't be able to help trying to impress you, along with Pelican :-)

Mjpb,
I'm looking forward to your reply, and I understand about time constraints. Please by all means give me the link to your other thread.

Squeers,

I'm already impressed.

AJP... "the only rewards I can think of are the mental and emotional comfort and security that comes with thinking that the Big Guy’s got it all sorted and that even if the poop hits the fan big time, then there’s always the land of sunshine and lollipops awaiting you at the end of it all anyway".. indeed.

I do understand that sense of 'community' and neither deny it nor knock it, since I too experience that in my own life of secular folly, but that is not a 'Christian' activity. Lions (not the beasts) get this joy, as do Rotary people, and P&C volunteers, and so on, as do people in other religions, and no religions.

The post life is not a Christian monopoly either.

Even those evil non-religiony, and the Pagan devil worshipping, roll-mop eating, environmentalists hope for a better world, albeit here on earth, when they have 'passed on', although not for themselves but for those who are left here (altruism at work?).

No worries AJP :).. I think I detected a mild note of cynicism in your last post... about win win etc.

I don't think that any of the scenario's you portrayed accuractely reflect what Jesus brought to us.. do you ?

I saw a strong note of 'prosperity gospel' aversion there.. happily so.
That was never the Gospel, and never will be.

There is a secret though...that many don't realize... while we who regard ourselves as true evangelicals will speak lots about denying self and not living for this world, or it's vainglory, once you go through that gateway of self denial, and come out the other side...it can be pretty awesome in ways I can't even begin to describe.

But sssshhhhhhh *its a secret* :)

But the bit we can freely tell all and sundry is that there is new life to be had in Christ...but the door (Him) is to walk in His footsteps.

If William Lane Craig is a bit dodgy..(at first I liked him but as some of the weaknesses in his position were pointed out.. I faded)

If you want some fairly solid reformed meat.. try this one.

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?catid=12

James White is quite entertaining with a solid academic foundation.

Have a good weekend.. take a walk.. try the Dandenongs :)

This discussion is based around the principal of equal rights. I don't believe that women have the equal rights in the context of the orthodoxy of the existing Christian religions. Women were clearly defined to a position in the Christian doctrines, and that is of an aid to man. Because of evolving technology and the societal changes that accompany it, women quite rightly are viewed as equals in modern societies, but this freedom has produced the female career predator.

The female career predator has traditionally chosen government departments as their first choice of residence. Govt depts were the first to embrace the ethos of gender equality and positive discrimination. I mention this because of the "easy and protected" career path they offer in comparison to the private sector. Women have now targeted another easy mark, the church. Career lesbians with nothing else in their lives want to destroy the ordained spirit and perspective of a faith because they can.

Adam was created, and Eva created from Adam. The trinity's not "mother son and holy ghostess". After I had read the thread yesterday I asked a handful of people what gender the holy ghost is, all replied male. The scriptures do not berate or subjugate women, but it is plain to see that Adam was the first concept and male was the gender assigned.

Whether you believe in Christianity or not it does not alter the fact that the hub of the church has always been male and that at the meeting of creator and created, Moses was speaking to a male creator, and a male creator to his first concept of humanity made in his own image.

This change is not driven by the need to liberate women in the Christian faith, women parishioners gain nothing from a change. If we were discussing the Muslims I could see a valid reason to have women represented at the top echelon. But I would argue that in the Koran males are aso the chosen heirachy of the faith.

Lesbians with PC agendas are the core of the call for change, ego driven.

Are you serious sonofgloin - or are you tongue in cheek.

Just in case you are serious - "female career predator". What the...! And lesbians no less. Good gracious.

Usuing that logic and analysis men were the first 'career predator' often barring entry for women into many professions. The private sector did not become more egalitarian until much later.

Women did not 'choose' government positions as a first priority necessarily, but government was the first major employer to encourage female applicants at a time highly discriminatory to women.

As an atheist what the Churches do is really none of my concern or business unless their activities impede on other rights and freedoms, however I don't understand how many women can accept the arrogance of some of the attitudes that exist in this very male dominated hierarchy. In particular the tendency to portray women as evil or unclean which also relates to some biological functions. This is the same with Islam - I don't get it.

Why do normally intelligent and reasonable people go along with this rot.