What out comes do you expect, who do you think will win why.
No party surely can give any of us every thing we want.
Maybe the winner has the job of pleasing the most voters.
You will see some say no politician is worth voting for but is that true?
Is an election a trade off between what each of us wants and what we get?

An election is an illusionary perception of a democracy.

Then ginx what is the alternative?
In fact elections bring about unhappiness no matter who wins, at least 40% did not want them to.
I offer ginx post as evidence some, maybe all of us expect too much.
If they had not been brain washed over generations, if they understood I am sure North Koreans would love an election.
Or if it was fair Zimbabwe would like one too.
Some may find it hard to understand but even histories great leaders had some who hated them.

The only lean i see to this post is the question of why we seem to have such little choice. Is it because the parties are well attuned to what the community want and the only decision is whether we need tight budget control or whether we need someone to do something, Or could it be that we are so carefully manipulated by the media, business and the dominate political forces of globalism that any voice that doesn't play the right game is immediately condemned as wrong or was that left.
I do find it disappointing that we don't have a genuinely strong third force that could split the other two up and back to their old corners. Everything we now vote for seems homogenised, it really is a leaders election. How many people do you know that voted for there local labor member at the last election were actually voting for them or voting for Rudd.
I do agree though, it is great that we actually do have free and safe elections, that we will not vote agains't.

Dear Belly,

I believe that Labor will win the next election.
Most people don't want to see Tony Abbott as
Prime Minister. He and his Front Bench represent
the previous Howard era. Few Australians would
want to see the country return to that past.

Howevr, Julia Gillard might be well advised to go
to an election as soon as possible, before her gloss
wear off.

It seems that leadership has become quite expendable.
Out with the old, in with the new. Don't fix things,
like they did in the good old days, simply replace
them with newer models. Are we becoming
a "disposable society," like the US?

Tony Wright, in "The Age," Saturday, July 3rd, 2010,
seems to think so. He writes:

" If your microwave, or just about any other
electrical appliance has blown up recently, it's
a fair bet you didn't bother having it repaired.
Easier, quicker and mostly cheaper to junk it
and buy a new one. It's the age of obsolescence.
Mobile phone gone haywire? Get a new one.
TV? Same thing. We don't stick with things and try
to fix them any more. Don't need to - there's
always a new model. Today's Australians are not like
their parents or grandparents who lived through a
depression and emerged with an obsession for
saving things...If something in the house or shed
went on the blink, they simply fixed it, or called
in a handyman who could do so. They persevered with
what they had, resorting to purchasing new models
only when the old standby was clean worn out, unable
to be revived..."

Well Bells, no more. Out with the old, in with the new,
faster and faster. It infects our society from the
divorce courts all the way to politics.

cont'd ...

I forgot to answer your question about
elections.

What is an election?

An election is where we get to have a say in
which political party we want to run the country.
We don't have a say in who the PM will be or who the
selected Cabinet will be.

Elections are determined by wealth distribution
throughout the country. Areas with higher wealth
appear to prefer the Liberal Party. Areas with
less wealth and unemployment usually prefer Labor.

Unless the choice of the individual likely to be in
charge of the country is so abhorrent people will vote
for the best available choice. As is the case currently,
where Julia Gillard is the preferred choice to Tony
Abbott - who represents the Howard legacy which no
one wants.

In any case, the much touted notion that governments
govern for all, is not believed by significant numbers
of voters. It's all too obvious that governments
actually don't do this. There are vested interests
at play. "Wedge politics," deliberately creating a
division between sectoral interests - is the name of
the game. Hence, interest group self interest and
antagonism between citizens permeates policy making.

There is "them" and "us" rather than simply "us", and
much effort is employed in partisan politics which could
be much better utilised in positive pursuits.

Elections are to that electors can elect the representative they desire to represent them but in reality the elections have been hijacked by the political parties and where the elected representative in Parliament votes as told by the political leader (some exceptions) and as such no longer represent the constituents. We lack a system of accountability because there is none, hence the lies by candidates. We have no fair elections because an INDEPENDENT candidate cannot spend up big on elections not knowing how much he gets per vote while political parties may get more then $12 million each and so can liberally advertise if not saturate advertising to the maximum. We can take it back by voting for INDEPENDANTS as to teach all political parties enough is enough but then filling in every square is what most voters refuse to do as it is easier just to mark a square and there is where the political parties got you because they know you are too lazy to endure the filling in of all squares and use that in their favour. As such endure 3 years or so hardship because you couldn’t bother a few minutes to fill in a ballot paper that is what elections have come to represent.

Ginxy says:

"An election is an illusionary perception of a democracy."

And she is absolutely correct!

Well.. this needs to be qualified a tad.

IDEAL Democracy.

House of Reps... elected proportionally.

Senate ABSOLUTELY devoid of "party" influence/membership/control

REAL Democracy (ours)

House of Reps... Proportional representation. Marginal seats.. preference deals. So.. it is entirely possible for crackpot fringe group (even ours :) to control the outcome of an election in terms of....
-Winning party.
-Prime Minister and Ministers.
-Foriegn Policy.

SENATE.. fringe crackpot parties like Greens and Demawho's trying to have the balance of power over the rest of us.

Well..thankyou very much.. I now feel 100% legitimized IF..I suggested we move toward a Theocracy, representative of oh.. 50 people ?

So.. what we've got is what we've got.. I don't see it changing any time soon. I'm ok with working within the system.. but it doesn't mean my mob win much. Such is *this* life :)

foxy JG will win the election, and well, it will be mid term before her gloss is challenged.
And maybe much longer, her problem when it comes will not be with the voters but internal ones as she controls who rises within the party.
An election?
We have the best type I have no doubt of that.
But I never claimed it is perfect.
Third force? greens are just that, you may not like it but voters support nothing else makes third forces.
I ask those who want more independents to look at our senate.
Liberal or Labor in government represent more votes than our two senators, one is lost in a different world, yet they have power beyond votes worth.
If every seat was won by an independent we would still hate politicians and still more than ever, get nothing done.

(apologies if this comment appears to go off on a bit of a tangent but I believe it is relevant)

An election is supposed to be a way for citizens to excersise a civil right and have a vote. In Australia we don't have this civil right because it was turned into a civic duty.

Voting should be voluntary.

Australia is one of the few democratic western nations that still has compulsory voting and fines citizens who choose not to vote.

There are many arguments in favour and against voluntary voting, I do not wish to go into the arguments here but if others wish to comment that's fine.

I firmly believe voting is a civil right not a civic duty!

If you have the right to vote you also have the right not to vote!

An ever growing number of Australians are expressing theis view so I have just started a Facebook Group called 'No More Compulsory Voting'

http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=145462422130774&ref=mf

Facebook can be a powerful tool to ad the weight of numbers to any cause or argument.

If you support voluntary voting for Australia please go to the above URL and join the Group.

I will be inviting people to join through any online forum I have access to or word of mouth... but of course we need many more like minded individuals to help it go viral.

Interesting post, vociferous.

But….voting IS voluntary!

We are not obligated to vote for any candidate/party. We can put in a null vote if we wish.

What our supposedly compulsory voting system actually does is get us down to the polling booth and make us think a bit about who deserves or doesn’t deserve our vote.

I think that this is much better than just having voluntary voting which would allow a large section of the populace to just stay home or to resign themselves well before the election to not voting and therefore not giving a damn about any party or candidate’s policies or philosophies.

So, I’d say that it should be compulsory for all of us to have our names crossed off at a polling booth and to register a vote, whether it be a vote for a particular candidate or party with all contestants listed in order of preference or a vote for no candidate!

Two things need to happen though:

1. there needs to be a box on the ballot paper for no candidate, so that the voter can formally vote for no one if they feel that no one deserves their vote and

2. we need to dump the compulsory preferential voting system and move to the optional preferential system so that voters can only allocate preferences to the extent that they want to, instead of being compelled to mark every square.

The compulsory preferential system is disgraceful, as your vote can very easily filter down and end up counting for a candidate/party that you have no intention of voting for and have specifically put low in your order of preferences.

Ludwig...

While I totally agree with your points on the problems with the preferential system it is for the most part a separate issue to the voluntary voting issue.

Furthermore suggesting that our system is voluntary because one may cast a null vote is not a good argument in support of compulsory voting.

Also not all people who choose not to vote are necessarily apathetic, some are simply not comfortable supporting any candidate or are not interested in participating in the flawed electoral system you highlighted.

On the other hand obliging people who are apathetic to cast a vote (even a null vote) only increases the chances of I'll informed voting and carelessly completed forms inadvertently playing into the problems you highlighted with the preferential system.

If a person is not interested in politics or does not understand the issues and policies it should be their right to choose note to vote without having to go to a polling booth and slow down proceedings or effect an outcome they don't care about.

It's like obliging someone who has no interest in Autralian Rules Football to cast a vote for rule changes or new league board members, makes no sense.

<< …suggesting that our system is voluntary because one may cast a null vote is not a good argument in support of compulsory voting. >>

But it is not in support of compulsory voting. It is expressing the truth of the situation – that voting IS actually voluntary. Having a formalised null vote option would mean that voting is essentially voluntary to a considerably greater extent than it is now.

Compulsory voting, as I see it as existing now, is where the vast majority of us feel compelled to vote for one of the candidates on offer and don’t realise that they can effectively vote for no one, or they’d feel naughty and unlawful if they did that.

<< It's like obliging someone who has no interest in Autralian Rules Football to cast a vote for rule changes or new league board members, makes no sense. >>

Oh no, I don’t see that comparison as being valid at all. We’re talking about the governance of our country, not some silly game. We’ve all got a stake in our governance. We really should all be strongly advised to vote, IMO. The system should get us all into the voting arena and mindset, rather than encouraging apathy.

Vociferous, what I am proposing would simply get a larger portion of the populace engaged in the running of the country compared to your voluntary voting ideology where a large section, being the most apathetic group, would just stay at home. Those who are REALLY apathetic can still drop in a blank ballot paper, with just the very minor inconvenience of having to go to a polling booth once every three years or thereabouts for a federal election.

Your principle of voting being a civil right rather than a civic duty would be upheld.

continued

<< …not all people who choose not to vote are necessarily apathetic, some are simply not comfortable supporting any candidate or are not interested in participating in the flawed electoral system you highlighted. >>

Yes, but at present, we can’t really tell whether a null vote is accidental, deliberate but apathetic or a deliberate vote for no one, unless the voter writes something on their ballot paper to indicate their intent. And if they do, their intent doesn’t get recorded in any sort of stats.

I think it would be quite valuable to know what portion of voters put in a vote for no one because of discontent with all the candidates, or with the two big ones, one of which would almost always get their vote after preferences have filtered down even if they put these two last and second last!!

The way to do this is to have a square for no candidate….and optional preferential voting.

Hey Ludwig,

In principal I totally agree with your point, it would be useful or at least interesting information; in practice however there are already too many variables to be counted at elections. Simplifying and clarifying the process is preferable I think. So even though the individual reasons would not be known a low voter turnout under a voluntary system certainly sends a clear message to politicians that the majority are uninspired by their words or policies so they need to work harder and perhaps even become more transparent or explain themselves in a clearer more detailed fashion to win votes

As a CONSTITUTIONALIST I refused to be required compulsory to vote, even so I was a candidate in elections, and by this didn’t vote. The Commonwealth then did a 5 year epic legal battle against me for FAILING TO VOTE and on 19 July 2006 I comprehensively defeated the Commonwealth. I do not oppose voting but opposing compulsory voting.
Also, I oppose the swindle of voting where any primary vote nets the candidate about $2.20. Meaning that where my wife and I do not vote then we save $2.20 for the Senate each and $2.20 for the HoR each saving taxpayers a total of $8.80! If this were translated to thousands of electors not voting then this would save a lot of money. A start to teach them not to use a vote for financial purposes.
The whole voting system is rigged where the above the line favours candidates and independent candidates generally are missing out.
I neither vote in State or municipal elections, despite I was a candidate – no more I think – so the only candidate who never voted even for himself!
This time my wife is going to vote for me, not that I am a candidate, but a pretend vote, and I will put a sign up in the front yard to vote for me! Now that can be some fun people searching on the ballot paper for me (the unlisted pretend candidate).
See also http://www.scribd.com/InspectorRikati

The Facebook group I started the other day has only four members so far; hardly impressive numbers but it's a start and it's early days.

So to any of the posters here who have agreed with my views and may want to do a little bit to help me spread the word and pursue this issue... I say, please feel free to join the group, even if you don't have a Facebook account you can join and keep your profile private while adding your vote (pun intended) to the group and the cause. Or if you really do not wish to do the Facebook thing yourself, perhaps you can send the link to friends and acquaintances who might.

http://www.facebook.com/Lord.Of.The.Starfields#!/group.php?gid=145462422130774&ref=mf