*the aboslute MIRACLE of Capitalism is wasted on these ingrates, isn't it?*

Not really, TBC. China has come a long way, things take time.
Thirty years ago they were starving and finally saw the light.
So they converted parts of their economy to a market economy
and look what happened!

Yup, now they are striking, achieving higher wages then they
used to. Who stops those wages going even higher? That
people loving Communist Govt of course. They want even more
$ to roll into the Govt kitty and are nervous of losing their
competitive edge. So the the workers who they are meant to care
about, pay the price. Gotta love those Govt officials!

*How come they build car plants in China, when it's so cheap to ship Beemers from Germany then?*

Because TBC, there are those pesky things around called politicians
and they act in their little patch of self interest, introduce
non tariff barriers or even tariff barriers. Why do you think that
the Japanese produce cars in Europe or the USA? Try shipping products
into the EU. I used to and they play every dirty trick in the book.

So to play it safe, car makers commonly assemble cars in their
destination markets, but actual components are shipped all over the
place. It has nothing to do with the cost of freight.

*No need to ever think with a quarry underfoot is there?*

You are quite correct TBC. Without that quarry, Australia would
for once have to face the real world. Forget the double time,
holiday leave loading, long service leave, termination pay and
all the rest. In the real world that is all dreamland stuff,
but the quarries keep you in the dreamtime. Fair enough.

Not only are the Chinese lifted out of poverty, many are lifted completely away from their families in rural villages and towns and lured to the city. Thousands of children are now being raised by their grandparents in rural areas while their parents live in factory enclaves in the cities - they are lucky to see there children a couple of times a year. The urban population of China is expected to reach 700 million in the next five years, many of these are young parents who have left villages and towns now populated largely by grandparents and children.
I suppose this could be seen as a slight improvement on the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution in Britain where children were brought to the cities and towns and put to work alongside (sometimes instead of) their parents.
It would seem that for the foreseeable future, rampant industrial progress is likely have a detrimental effect of the family lives and cultural and kinship ties of many Chinese.

TBC - blame the downfall of Capitalism on Blacks-Hispanics and women getting loans,

No, capitalism has not collapsed, it has merely rolled over one of the “ripples” it encounters from time to time

But this “ripple” was created by a US, socialist minded government (Democrats) empowering regulators into pushing an illegitimate cause, that of affirmative action.

i blame the issue on a too powerful and meddlesome central government, making rules and then leaving the mess for the next administration to wipe up.

Of course, in 1989 the USSR communist economy did collapse and the aftermath is still being suffered by Russians

Re -Oh indeed, the greedy are truly empty vessels who make much noise to hide their emptiness.

Seems to me the inept economics vessel; of collectivist thinking is the noisiest around these parts, the continual whine, akin to a jet engine.

Severin “I want to thank all the brown, black, yellow and red people for a marvelous three-century joy ride....

What Severin (very) small mind cannot encompass is the effect of non-trade.

Non-trade, the opposite to trade has a single effect. It impoverishes the poor more than trade.

Having something of value to sell (trade) means people can buy what they need.
Having nothing to sell (trade) means they starve.

It was a right wing politician, who said
"Whether manufactured by black, white, brown or yellow hands, a widget remains a widget - and it will be bought anywhere if the price and quality are right. The market is a more powerful and more reliable liberating force than government can ever be."

The bit to focus on is

The market is a more powerful force

Capitalist Trade
creates friendship
establishes esteem
encourages cross border investment
produces employment
creates wealth
Trade helps people eat
And Trade reduces the risk of conflict
Trade is an essential element of capitalist theory

Collectivist isolationism and protectionism, as often demanded by union controlled socialists, does the exact opposite.

the point with $110 shorts is simple.... in a free market, no one is required to buy them, they could all go to Best and Less

Poirot “Not only are the Chinese lifted out of poverty, many are lifted completely away from their families in rural villages and towns and lured to the city.”

Yes that has been what has always happened.

It has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with human expectation

In China, there are something like 200 million people drawn to the city, without the proper internal authorisation to be there (typical collectivist / communist authoritarian bureaucracy).

Same thing happened in 18th century England and Europe, except those days the communists did not exist so the notion of government permission and control to move to the city did not exist either.

But before you get pious about the Chinese being lifted away from their families, ask yourself why?

Answer – to escape the crushing poverty of Communist rural China and to establish a better future for themselves and their children oops – child (– only allowed one under communist law).

It is collectivism which has left them in poverty

Them and everyone else in countries where collectivists thought they could mess with market forces

If people are drawn away from their families, to the bright lights of capitalist cities, it is because they believe the possibility of “living” there is better than the “safety” of collectivist poverty which they leave behind. Of course, they are always free to go back.

Re - It would seem that for the foreseeable future, rampant industrial progress is likely have a detrimental effect of the family lives and cultural and kinship ties of many Chinese.

I think that is a choice which individual Chinese people should be free to make for themselves and not something decreed by their government or you.

But at least now, they have a choice, before there was no hope, no light, just grinding poverty, the jacket boot of communism and nothing else...

an crushing existence worthy of any opportunity to escape.....

Just like the East Germans who climbed the Berlin Wall

Stern

>>>... Trade is an essential element of capitalist theory

Collectivist isolationism and protectionism, as often demanded by union controlled socialists, does the exact opposite. <<<

You have not considered a single point that anyone has written here. No one, not a single poster who takes issue with your laissez-faire neo-capitalism has promoted the above ideology.

There is little point in attempting to communicate with someone, who when not ignoring everything that has been presented resorts to personal invective. I have no more argued for "non-trade" than I have given any reason to be considered "small-minded".

In short, you are a waste of time.

Yabby

You stated that TBC has no concept of modern China, AFTER he presented a post totally concerned with the multi-national opportunistic infiltration into China happening right now. While wages remain low, that is. You are not paying attention either.

Both Yabby and Stern have revealed that they are incapable of reason, cannot review their opinions in conjunction with the long-term effects of unsustainable growth.

Planet Earth is finite. And so are you and any family you may have. If you are incapable of planning for the long-term for yourselves, are you not at all concerned for the future of your grandchildren and their children? Yabby, I know this doesn't apply to you, being a genetic dead-end and all, however, Col, I mean Stern has regaled us on many occasions how he has raised his daughters to be successful little neo-capitalists.

Fiddling while Earth burns, I suspect.

That about sums it up, Severin, thanks.

I'm all for debating issues but we all have to be prepared to be open-minded, and that goes for me too of course. If the opposition can table some valid argument that renders what others have been saying doubtful, let's hear it.
Otherwise, I have better things to do than go on with a slinging match--pleasurable as that can be.

I think Peter Hume should follow up and start his own thread on his terms; terms that, let's not forget, we are all properly bpound to abide by.

Mitchell is Squeer's alter ego by the way when at UNI :-)