While the full details of the deal are to be revealed this morning, it is clear that Gillard has caved in to just about every demand of the big 3 miners.

This is even better for the miners than what they were lobbying for a couple of weeks ago, and then the reduction in tax would have been from $12bn to $2bn in the first 2 years.

After all the damage to labor, they walk away with probably less take than with the increase in tobacco tax, and not having included the small miners, she has not completely silenced criticism either.

Lets see what further backflips are on the cards:
- Asylum seekers
- Building education Rort.
- ETS

SM,
Give it a rest SM, you don't want discussion you are just wanting to push are just being a political mouthpiece for the LIBERAL party.

Most of which is hypercritical BS .

Shadow M...if she does NOT 'backflip' on the issue of ETS as in the TRADING aspect (ie..make Bob Carr and Labour rich through the back door)

then..she will incurr my absolute *wrath*.. (as if she even knows I exist :)

But I can still do my thing in public places in a way which should contribute to some unmeasurable degree to Labor's demise this next election..if not at Fed then at State level.

grrrrrr..

I'm also on the warpath about Assylum Seekers(Country shoppers/jobtakers/Centrelink sponges) who have opted OUT of protection by the UN convenion by virtue of Article 31..i.e..

a) They did not go DIRECTLY to a place of safety
b) Many of them have engaged in behavior of an illegal nature.. piracy and intimidation and riotous acts.

Really, SM? The reports I've read say that the resource rent tax has been reduced to an acceptable 30% (from 40%) and had its name changed to Minerals Resource Rent Tax (MRRT). Hardly a "backflip" - more of a negotiated outcome, I'd say.

Of course, if Gillard had refused to budge on it you'd be bleating about that, wouldn't you?

Boaz - if I was an ALP supporter, I'd be quite delighted to see hateful frootloops "doing their thing in public places" about loony conspiracy theories, and putting the boot into unfortunate asylum seekers.

<< Assylum (sic) Seekers(Country shoppers/jobtakers/Centrelink sponges) >>

What a great advertisement for Christian compassion you are!

Australia's resources are your resources. You should get a fair share of what belongs to you. These companies can just come onto your land and take what's under it.

This is a HUGE set back for the people, but HUGE step forward for private enterprise and their confidence in being able to pressure the people who we trust with power to do what's best for us.

She gave the mining companies a better deal than what they were lobbying for.

The lesson we might all take from this is that Swan, as treasurer, failed to sell a badly explained tax, which then allowed the wealthy to dictate the terms of what they were prepared to pay.

We have lost out badly here, whatever the rate now is.

Our tax system already has loopholes galore in it that clearly allow the miners to evade their tax responsibilities, but that was not enough for them.

The rate has lifted from 5% to 12% too I think CJM, and they still get a lower tax rate too.

Meanwhile, 'the wurkers' will be engaging in wage offsets to lift their super, still have no escape from taxes open to others, and still swathes of people will be gifted tax free zones..salary sacrifice, negative gearing lurks, no tax on religions, and so on.

The idea of 'tax reform' has totally evaporated under Swan's heavy handed dealings and the Rudd-ALP visionless failure to tackle the topic seriously.

What Queen Julia did was probably the same as what Rudd was about to do.

Let's hope Bob Brown tightens it up somewhat... no company tax reductions for a start... and how come 'gold' escaped the tax?

The one good change is the title of it, and only a gormless nitwit would ever have called it a 'supertax' whilst running a neo-liberal government that supported super profits by encouraging so much tax rorting and hating the 'deserving poor'.

Too funny.

Only a Shadow Minister would come out with that one - Gillard couldn't win if she compromised or if she stood fast as CJ rightly points out.

If Abbott had done it you would be on OLO admiring his high-level negotiation skills.

That is what is called a negotiation which should have happened in the first instance for what is basically a fair and good idea, one that BHP was willing to discuss prior to the announcement but was ignored.

Well, I think that Julia deserves a gold star here :)

Life is about compromises and she's shown that she
can cut a deal, where everyone comes out ok.

Kevie made the crucial mistake of listening to Henry's
word as gospel, rather then listen to a number of opinions.

If he'd sat down with Kloppers and discussed these things
before announcing his Super Profits tax as gospel, all
this drama could have been avoided.

Holy Flying Pigs, Batman.

I agree with Yabby.

Not to worry, probably won't happen again.

As I said when the tax was *first announced* that there was too many undefined parameters to get excited about the tax. I made the point that it was all about negotiation and by the time it got to parliament would be different. To me that was as predictable as day follows night.

Rudd would have compromised in the end, take a look at what 'twiggy' Forrest has said.

I don't believe that the Labor trolls were the only reason for Rudd's demise.
The factors included
- his hairy chested painting himself into a corner because of his style.
- the opposition because it played tawdry hypercritical politics.
- the public because it believed the numb nutted Liberal scare mongering

Shadow Minister great!
I get a kick out of the lost and uninformed nature of your posts.
Julia did what Rudd should have, and won an election doing it.
Have you considered running for leader?
Polls at the end of this month are the tipping point.
Reality may unseat Rabbott.
Your mob will have to confront 3 more years of mud throwing or put Turnbull and Hockey up to say sorry and do much better than Rabbott.
Again thanks, your increasingly unrealistic posts charm me, well done.
Go Julia you good thing.

Well I to think madam PM has done well in that she has seen the need for compromise.

She has also made the tax 'non-retrospective' which is a good thing as well.

What I am concerned about is whether she has made the 'cut in rate' at 7% above the gov bond rate, or, whether it is simply now at 13%.

Surely she is bright enough to have chosen the first option.

Now all we have to do is work out where they intend to find the money needed to fill the void left from the original 'super tax' revenue.

Any guesses?

*I agree with Yabby.
Not to worry, probably won't happen again.*

Ah well Severin, things are looking up. At least
you got it right once in your life :)

Examinator, it was exactly because people working in
mining DID get excited, especially in a number of
marginal seats, that Caucus acted, Rudd was removed
and the rest is history.

Rudd screwed up badly, he's paid the price. Julia so
far is certainly a refreshing change

And then Yabby goes and spoils it all by saying something......

Stupid.

Rehctub, I think that that the Govt would be foolish to budget
on nearly any of this money, but they won't tell you that
before the next election.

At the moment there are something like 39 iron ore projects
globally being built, which will come onstream in the next
three years. That will increase supply by around 500 million
tonnes a year. Now even the Chinese won't swallow all that,
so given supply and demand, the price of iron ore could well
again crash, like it did when the Japanese played us against
Brazil in the 70s.

Coal is much the same. We saw what happened to prices during
the GFC, they basically dropped by 50%.

As nobody can predict the future, it would be foolish to
pretend that they can predict income in a few years time.
Its basically nothing but a guess.

The increase in super will be paid by employers. Some
will be able to pass on their costs, some, like farmers,
won't.

I was a bit busy today, so only heard a bit of news. However, I think I caught that the super proffit tax, a bit scaled down, will apply to only coal, & iron ore.

With the rate of increase in power charges recently, this is still not great news. The mining companies will have to increase prices, to try to make up their profits, so I think people had best sit down before opening their power bills in future.

We wouldn't want anyone being injured, if they faint at the shock.

The ten % that's missing, and what wheels are turning?

TTm.

The most salient point about the mining tax brouhaha to me is that it demonstrates the extent to which Australia is run by transnational mining and media corporations, rather than by notionally democratic governments.

CJ Morgan

I do take your point and had Yabby actually been amenable to discussion, I would've elaborated that I agreed with Gillard's actions, but for different reasons to the crustacean's.

I don't see how the Federal Government could've compromised any less, given how symbiotic has the relationship between government and big business become. This relationship has become entrenched over decades and not likely to change.

While, I am relieved that Rudd has gone (his responses in a number of interviews to which I listened were increasingly brittle) and am very hopeful for the leadership of Gillard, I will still be giving my first preferences to the Greens. However, with Gillard at the helm, I believe a number of people who were probably going to swing towards the Greens will now go back to Labor. All of which means we will remain a 2 party state.

Again I will vote below the line, being very mindful of my preferences.

Severin... we are lumbered with deadwood at the top, middle and bottom of the voting tree, and political oak.

How an ALP voter could swing back to the ALP from the Greens is beyond me, after all, what has actually changed since Rudd left, apart from ridding us of Rudd (thankfully)?

I hope everyone is going to send in questions to Q&A to the Roman Catholic in charge of 'sustainable' population... now we do all know that was a Gillard joke don't we?

A bit like having the Pope in charge of enquiring into child abuse isn't it?

The Pope will find nothing but badly behaved boys and kindly priests who struggle in difficult conditions (I think I heard some Arch(fiend)Bishop saying on RN just now), and Burke will discover that to be 'sustainable' we have to increase the levels of population to keep mines working...to about 36-50m people by 2050...never mind the lack of water and top soil.

SEverin, you wrote about the symbiotic relationship between government and big business... that's known as 'organised crime'.

I think we could do with some of what Squeers was talking about in another thread, to change the path of our 'democracy' away from the current empty circus tent it has become, towards a more involved and engaged activity.

It won't happen because it would require effort, and our electors shy away from 'effort' preferring to stick to 'personalities'. Much easier to handle, and understand.

Ooops.... two posts in a row.

If you all want a larf... go to JUlia's blog and read all the bon mots from the Belly types over the 'tax reform':

http://alp.org.au/resources-tax-reform-%E2%80%93-delivering-better-share-australians

The most "immediate" consequence to the Gillard/miners deal is that Mr Abbott is now a lone wolf, with nowhere to go but down.

He's been "pretending" he's on the miners' side and "pretending" that he and the miners are as one. Now it's been shown that the miners and Labor are as one (and they've got it in 'writing'). Mr Abbott has promised to rescind the deal if the Liberals win the next election, therefore he'll be battling Labor AND the miners AND the Aussie public in the election campaign.

In other words, Mr Abbott would be the KISS OF DEATH for the Liberal Party at the election.

Therefore...................

My prediction is that the Liberals will NOT go into the upcoming election with Mr Abbott as leader. Mr Hockey will be leader. They will of course lose the election, but the damage will be lessened NOT because Mr Hockey is the leader, but because Mr Abbott is NOT the leader.

Later on they'll dump Mr Hockey (for obvious reasons). There are no "real" leaders currently among the parliamentry Liberals.

There's a chance that later on Mr Costello will return, but while he's a good money manager, he's also no leader. Currently, there's only 2 other alternatives Mr Howard and Mr Turnbull (both of whom are very strong leaders); but neither will return to politics.

Errr... Turnbull has not left though.... and he could lead the Liberals again but not while people like Abbott, Minchin, Robb, The Bee Hive and others remain clogging up the Liberal lifeline and keeping decent people out of parliament..oh yea, and goons like Hefferlump and Tuckey too.

Time for a few swags to be rolled.

"At least you got it right once in your life" :)

Posted by Yabby, Friday, 2 July 2010 5:55:59 PM
_________________________

"And then Yabby goes and spoils it all by saying something......
Stupid."

Posted by Severin, Friday, 2 July 2010 5:59:00 PM
________________________

Actually Sevs,-its ALL WRONG. Yabbs got his statement WRONG -
you've always had it right.

But when you say Yabbs says something stupid, you seem to imply that this is the first time........

Now that's plain WRONG.

Acute observation Benq.

TBC - well it is not going to be boring. Also I am way more impressed with Gillard than any other pollie from either the Labor or Liberal camp. She has left Abbott with nowhere to turn with regard to the mining industry. If he carps on about her being atheist - she has already covered offending the religious mafia by (currently) not supporting gay marriage, and I think the placement of a Catholic as Minister for Sustainable Population very clever indeed - not the oxymoron it may appear.

I predict a new ETS drawn up with the backing of the Greens and business as usual on immigration- prior to the election. Immigration will be overhauled AFTER Gillard has one the election.

While I do still predict a shift of Labor supporters back to the fold, many wavering Lib voters will either support the Greens or even Labor. The Libs have nothing to offer. Only the extreme neo-cons would want Howard back.

Ginx

You are right.

I was being kind to the crustacean, lacking a spine he over compensates with hostility to any hint of intellect.

*The most salient point about the mining tax brouhaha to me is that it demonstrates the extent to which Australia is run by transnational mining and media corporations, rather than by notionally democratic governments.*

Not so CJ. Your average voter is just a bit more pragmatic these
days, then your average Green party voter.

People generally understand that if corporations arn't doing well,
their super fund won't be doing well and they might not have a
job either. At least Gillard is pragmatic, unlike Brown.

IMHO Brown has yet to realise that there is no magic jobs fairy.

*he over compensates with hostility to any hint of intellect.*

Hostility? ROFL Severin. Clearly you missed out on the
sense of humour gene when you were made. Ah well, you can't
help yourself I guess, that is just how you are.

Dear Yabs

My posting history attests to a well developed sense of humour. Also I am able to give as good (if not better) as I get.

All I ever get from you are insults - even when I f*ckin' agree with you - you love to dish it out but clearly can't take it. Whereas, I can.

Now we could've had an interesting discussion on Gillard's demonstration of pragmatism and what her recent decisions mean for Australia, instead you just had to go with the insult:

>> At least you (Severin) got it right once in your life <<

That is not humour. It is just bullying.

*That is not humour. It is just bullying.*

Sheesh, I stuck a smiley in there and you claim it to be
"bullying". I think others called you "difficult", sounds
like they are about right.

*Also I am able to give as good (if not better) as I get.*

Well in that case your claim of "bullying" is total rubbish.

Here we go again, as I predicted, the asylum seeker back flip.

I see that NSW is already cutting back on the "management" fees to its buddies that often far exceed the cost of the buildings.

Let's see what Gillard does with the Building Education Rort.

Yabby

Your posting history is littered with your frequent personal insults towards others. That you did place a 'smiley' means nothing, given your consistent bullying on this forum. In fact if I see that you are the only poster on a topic, I will wait until someone more amenable also comments - life is too short to waste on the belligerent.

My close friends can make jokes at my expense. You are not one of them. You are a mostly anonymous poster who regularly taunts others rather than engage in discussion.

If you were sincere in conversing with me, your post would've contained relevant comment and an invitation for my opinion.

Shadow Minister

>> Here we go again, as I predicted, the asylum seeker back flip <<

As I stated previously, wait until AFTER the election.

"...Immigration will be overhauled AFTER Gillard has (won) the election."
Posted by Severin, Saturday, 3 July 2010 3:47:49 PM

Also, SM, I would've thought that given your complete support for all things Liberal and antipathy for all things Labor, you would've have voted for Howard during his term of implementing the 'Pacific Solution.' Perhaps, I am not crediting you with sufficient objectivity.

Severin, for the benefit of the record, I was going along quite
peacefully on this thread, posting nothing but my opinion on
the subject.

You could not resist, you piped up with a sacarstic comment,
implications of which are no different to what I responded
with. I responded with my sarcastic reply.

Now you are pulling the "little girl gets bullied" tactic.

Forget it Severin, you're a grown up old dragon, quite able to
defend herself, its not going to work.

As it happens, no I don't really value your opinions, IMHO
there are far smarter and more interesting posters then
yourself.

One word describes you - difficult.

Now, could we get back to the topic please, as I was going
fine without your input and on topic as it happens.

Severin:

"As I stated previously, wait until AFTER the election.

"...Immigration will be overhauled AFTER Gillard has (won) the election."
Posted by Severin, Saturday, 3 July 2010 3:47:49 PM "

You obviously missed the newspaper headlines. Do well at the races?