Yuyutsu

>>> but we should support and pray for the success of our soldiers who are bravely fighting for those most worthy goals <<<

We can continue to bomb Afghanistan "back into the stone-age" but we cannot bomb it into peace.

I am in full agreement with Examinator's POV here. Heroin is a useful drug (as I have stated previously) we can make use of it by paying the Afghanis for their crops, this would eliminate the middle men (Taliban & organised criminals), boost the economy, wrest power from the overlords and support the locals.

But don't let common sense get in the way of warfare, too bloody obvious.

"We can continue to bomb Afghanistan "back into the stone-age""

For someone already worse-off than in the stone age, this would prove to be a boon. At least in the stone-age, one can roam around as they please, hunting and gathering and dying only of natural causes.

Of course poppy/heroin tactics are welcome if they can help, but that could only part of the solution, as I don't believe that fanatic Islamic die-hards will just give in without battle.

They won't give in without a battle, the best thing that can be done is to let them start it, out in the open, where the foolishness of their approach can be demonstrated.

Yeah, opiates are useful drugs, Tasmanian opiates provide the world's legal supply and are more than capable of increasing production without the corruption and bloodshed that they cause in Afghanistan. There is no way known that the place will ever change while the poppies remain, no way, no how. There are too many opportunities for the corrupt/greedy to intercept/misappropriate the drugs between farm and market.

For god's sake, the 'enforced' changeover to poppy-farming has left the place incapable of maintaining its own food needs. The farmers, given the correct combination of incentive & disincentive (2nd payment for the poppy crop they've already been paid for, destruction thereof, then harsh penalties for growing/possessing poppies or poppy seeds) will be rather simply moved back to wheat/etc. production.

That is of little difficulty, in practice... What is difficult is to remove the Warlords/Taliban thugs so that the place(s) can become socially and politically viable. Like I said, take volunteers to assist in the rebuilding and reward them, not those who refuse to take part, for having done so with training and jobs in the reconstructed community.

That will marginalise the non-compliant members of the community, those who back either the Warlords/Taliban, neither of whose needs/wants would be served by stabilising the region(s).

Marginalization does in fact work as a tactic, isolate the thugs and wait for them to respond. The fact that they are isolated will assist the Armed Forces to recognise/identify them, which will assist in targeting them.

I am bemused by the tone here, its either "all too hard" or "kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out", surely we have something more to offer than that?

"That is of little difficulty, in practice... What is difficult is to remove the Warlords/Taliban thugs so that the place(s) can become socially and politically viable FROM A WESTERN POINT OF VIEW."
Fixed your post for you.

"That will marginalise the non-compliant members of the community, those who back either the Warlords/Taliban, neither of whose needs/wants would be served by stabilising the region(s)."
Then what? You keep refusing to address this point. The Taliban aren't going to magically disappear into fairy dust if they lose popular support (putting aside they never needed it in the first place). Nor, for that matter, do they NEED to stay in Afghanistan (which anyone paying attention to Pakistani events over the past few years will happily tell you).

"Marginalization does in fact work as a tactic, isolate the thugs and wait for them to respond. The fact that they are isolated will assist the Armed Forces to recognise/identify them, which will assist in targeting them." Because it's worked SO well every other time we tried holding other countries and designating peoples for marginalizing.

"I am bemused by the tone here, its either "all too hard" or "kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out", surely we have something more to offer than that?"
I'm bemused by the fact that these two assumptions are all you can perceive.

What else are you offering? Withdrawal? Well that equals let god sort 'em out for mine. I'm not saying they have to become a Western Democracy, that is your spin not mine mate.

Afghanistan has the opportunity to become every bit as peaceful as maybe, India or Pakistan. No, the Taliban and the bandits/Warlords aren't going to turn into fairy dust, dust maybe.

Why are you so sure that the people, given the first opportunity in their history, to be rid of their feudal overlords and/or the Taliban/Mujahadeen or even the Soviet Empire, wouldn't take to democracy the same as their ethnic cousins in the rest of Asia?

Or is it that you think they are incapable of it (the same old white mans burden argument (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/kipling.html)?)? Well, I dunno... I'd have to say that to endure what they have endured over the last 30 years, they are tough, determined, inventive and fearless, there's some awesome character traits there.

Can that be harnessed? Can we give them the opportunity to put that to good use? I think we'd be mugs not to try, I mean after all, that is "ostensibly" the reason we went there, it'd be a shame to see the Taliban or somebody else waltz back in when we leave... All they really need, given the fact that they are farming now, is security, training and help. Or shall we just send aid for the next 100 years?

Yes, I AM saying "cut and run". Leave the place and let the Taliban resume control after negotiating with them that they must fully withdraw from Pakistan and ensure the Afghani opium trade is ceased (such a place has little guarantee of NOT working with mafia groups). THis is simply because aside from all of our attempts to improve the place blowing up in our faces (complete with a corrupt vote-rigging government putting on a spectacularly poor job of selling the so-called democracy the rest of the middle east accuse of- not to mention the amount of drug-runners and warlords in the government and candidacy), and of all the places the Taliban have been (including where they are NOW- hint, not Afghanistan in case you are actually still wondering), Afghanistan was the only place where any positives have come from them being around.

You have provided no evidence nor even practical solutions that convince me the place will change, and the best answer you could give me about the Taliban's fate was they'd simply disappear into 'normal' dust with no explanation how (let me guess, we'll just find em all, right?)- shows how little attention you have been paying. Not to mention you have given ZERO consideration to the consequences outside Afghanistan which we have helpfully provided.

My problem is we greatly DE-creased world security and spread the initial damage that happened under old Afghanistan over a much wider area. And we had almost 10 years to make a positive change.