david f,
<<AGIR and proxy are true Christians as their attitudes are inspired by their religious beliefs.>>
I have no religious beliefs, which renders your statement even more meaningless than it already was.

Evidence of Jewish perfidy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg&feature=player_embedded

Dear AGIR,

You said “So.. with this background, Israel's reaction is entirely understandable. It also means that criticism of it, is entirely irrational and could be said to be supportive of a 'death camps for Jews' mentality.”

By inference Israel is within its rights to use what ever means at its disposal to halt these boats including murdering peace protesters. Might this include torpedoing?

But yes I may have deemed your comments as more sinister than what they deserved. There is a simple way to clear it up. You could, if you were so inclined, agree that Proxy's call for the sinking of these ships is definitely unchristian.

And if he turns out to be an overseas contributor to OLO you could then agree that his calling for slaughter on such a grand scale of peace protesters be deemed a sufficient reason to bar him from entering this country, because compared to the comments of Cat Stevens this guy is a hell of a lot worse.

Simple.

Dear davidf,

I am fully cognisant of what you are objecting to and I find it just as subjective as my idea of what a christian act means to me and, as I have stated, to many of my fellow cultural christians.

I must ask, do you celebrate christmas or is the whole idea of coming together as families on the day that Jesus was supposedly born far too drenched in the history of European pogroms?

Or can you have some sympathy for the Dickensian notion of a christmas spirit, one that is universal and even healing, where even overt religiosity is put aside for a day?

Perhaps the government of Israel needs a visit from the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come to show them the "shadows of what may be." In fact the entire cabinet could benefit by noting the lessons in the book.

I regard the notion of a christian act in much the same light. It is not a term I should expect you to be comfortable with but I am, it is part of the language of the people I know and I have yet to hear a convincing argument why I should not be.

Of course I would not think of directing the term at you but I am more than happy asking the question of Proxy.

My apologies for the rambling nature of this post but it is a little past my bedtime and I'm about to hand the computer over to another.

BTW when you said “If you can establish that they were gunned down and the IDF (I prefer to call them the Israeli Armed Forces - armies can do many other things besides defending themselves) reacted without provocation you could be right in calling it a Jewish ethic.” I was a little shocked. If you meant it as it stands then I my heart goes out to you and I'm sorry.

Dear Proxy,

Since it appears it is not a religious belief that drives your obvious deep anger, hatred, and possibly fear I was wondering have you lost a loved one to a drone missile, or to inhumane sanctions on your country, or through a phosphorus bomb, or waiting at a checkpoint for medical treatment that never came?

Okay they might have been a touch facetious. Lets try to a hijacked jet hitting their building, or to a roadside bomb, or to a bomb in a Bali nightclub?

Or are you an Israeli?

Any of the above would make your attitude understandable but without something of their import impacting on your life I'm afraid I am left with the sense of an individual I would deem as unstable.

Dear CSTEELE

"Proxy's call for the sinking of these ships is definitely unchristian."

You saw Proxy's reply. What has Christianity got to do with this ?

You can observe that Proxy who expresses "no religious belief" and myself having strong religious belief.. making similar points.

I've met and worked with thorough going atheists who are FARRRRR more 'rabid' than anything you might see from me or Proxy or even both of us together.

So.. this should alert you to an important point. "Perhaps there are things which are of concern purely in 'humanitarian' terms" here ?

There's no point in pursuing that in detail as it will inevitably evoke hysteria from some usual suspects.

CHRISTIANITY.... since you mentioned it.. might be worth making some kind of position statement.

If you follow a theme in the new testament of "The Kingdom of God" you will find many references to the fact that it is not an earthly political kingdom. As such, it does not have an army and does not do any of the things you observe happening between Israel and the Arabs.

However.. the New Testament does have a firmly outlined position re 'government' and that's found in Romans 13 (have you read this?)

Other than that..Jesus oft quoted "Give to Caesar that which is Caesars" and remember.. Jesus brought Centurians into the kingdom...but their 'job' was still to keep order and at times this would mean killing. (Under the 'Romans 13' framework/Emperor)