Dear Proxy,

I'm afraid Mr Condell's humour escapes me, perhaps in this instance he wasn't trying to be funny. While I don't expect you to know where his 'obvious deep anger, hatred, and possibly fear' comes from I'm sure you have a little more idea about your own.

I truly am struggling to understand how such hatred has materialised within yourself without some deep seated cause. The best I have is irrational fear. I will admit to knowing some pretty far right people, some of whom I get on rather well with, but you are quite a few steps past any of them. It actually makes you a little more interesting than AGIR. Some of those who find religion late can often be susceptible to being led by those less savoury types who tend to inhabit the more fundamentalist of our religious establishments. There is a sense of withdrawal from the wider world, seeing it as evil, that provides the incubator of isolation where many aberrant ideas are allowed to flourish.

But you make it quite clear religion was not the factor in your case. What if anything is/was your isolatory circumstance? Relationship breakdown? A rural upbringing? I would prefer to hear it from you rather rather than having to comb your past posts.

Dear AGIR,

Forgive me for saying but I am saddened by what a blighted, enfeebled vision of Christianity you portray. You regurgitate Proxy's “What does Christianity got to do with this?” and then throw a quote from Paul, a Roman citizen, at me.

Where does Jesus' 'Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called sons of God.' or 'Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven', fit into your idea of the faith you claim to observe? Jesus was unequivocal, he saw himself as being sent 'to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed'. These things were not to be done in the afterlife, rather they needed doing in the now. Given the opportunity any Christian worth his or her salt would have been there aboard one of those boats.

But then again Jesus did say “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.” and might it be the likes of Proxy who are doing the trampling of any goodness from you? So what good is your version of Christianity for when it is just like a clanging cymbal?

You need to think about the following; if Jesus was to have witnessed the murders that took place on the convoy of peace activists or the oppression of the peoples of Gaza do you honestly think he would have said 'Well done Israelis, you have acted like the Romans in my day and moved swiftly to keep law and order.'?

Christianity's position should have been in the bowsprit of the lead boat not finding excuses for the evil that has occurred. Anything less verges on blasphemy.

Dear davidf,

Answered in a Jewish spirit by one who knows the best of, and wants the best for, their cultural fount, thank you.

The warmth with which you talk of the Jewish festive occasions is obvious and if I am ever in Brisbane at Passover I will be sure to take you up on your offer.

It is where I find myself at the moment, almost uncomfortably, defending notions of a faith my grandparents held dear. It spoke of compassion, charity, railing against oppression, delivering from want. Not of war nor revenge nor killing, all things that seem to come from the mouths of the most vocal, modern, self-called Christians.

The despoilers are at the gates!

To your other points, although I get the sense you might not only be polishing my soapbox but giving my megaphone a little touch up as well with these easy passes. Are we playing to each other or the audience? I'm not sure, but thank you anyway.

I was of course not asking if you celebrated the birth of Jesus but rather if you celebrated and appreciated Christmas in the spirit described by Dickens. As you have said “I celebrated Diwali with Hindus and Chinese New Year with Chinese.”, so is Christmas truly out of bounds for you?

You get no argument from me when you say “Christians might benefit from a visit from the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come themselves.” but it would be a shame if you were not open to a very universal message contained in Mr Dickens' book.

You wrote; “I resent the flaws of Israel being put on me” and it needs to be asked where your greatest resentment lies, is it with the Israeli government for creating the stereotype or on those applying it?

And as to Veritas may she be dragged from her well and placed under the bowsprit of the next blockade runner.

Dear csteele,

You wrote: "Not of war nor revenge nor killing, all things that seem to come from the mouths of the most vocal, modern, self-called Christians."

There are Jews who do things I don't like. I don't refer to them as self-called or socalled Jews. They are still Jews as much as I am. Christians who do things you don't like are not self-called Christians. They are Christians as much as you are. The Jesus of the Bible didn't disavow people he didn't like. He associated with 'publicans and sinners.'

Christmas, Diwali and Chinese New Year are equally not my holiday. I have celebrated Christmas with Christian friends just as I have celebrated other holidays with friends of those persuasions. You seem to be missionising and want to push your holy day onto me.

Christian attitudes towards Christmas have differed. In colonial days Puritans in Massachusetts would fine people who took Christmas off. They didn't celebrate it and didn't want others to do so. I hope you have many Merry Christmases. I do not have the restrictive attitude of the Puritans. However, there is no more reason for me to celebrate it than for you to celebrate Purim which is a very joyous holiday.

The Israeli government is the government of a foreign country as is the government of Pakistan, France and China. None of those are my country. Get it! I support the good things they all do and oppose the bad things they all do. That is exactly the same attitude I have to my own country, the United States. I have been blamed for actions of the United States. I resent that also. George Bush never consulted me.

China has the death penalty, has persecuted and has killed an estimated 65,000,000 people in suppressions of restive provinces, the Great Leap Forward, the Culture Revolution and other madness. It is far worse than Israel. However, I see no reason to blame anyone of Chinese origin for that madness. It is not their country. By the same token Israel is not my country

Keep up your pro Zionist propaganda, Custard, supporting Israel and Jews with legalistic nit-picking but without common sense or compassion, and you will help provoke the next holocaust!

Dear davidf,

Your arguments, including those for personal disengagement, certainly had some validity until, may I suggest, you said “I feel a Christian is not in a position to lecture Israel”.

Echoes of 'Ye who is without sin cast the first stone' and possibly a touch hypocritical.

Whom would you regard as being in a position to lecture Israel? Only those like yourself who have renounced a belief in a deity? Well that would include myself so it must be more than that.

Perhaps only those who have disavowed themselves of any form of tribalism, who have become purely consumers of the 'baubles' of the various faiths, able to, with shall we say not an insignificant degree of disdain, dismiss the rest. (Okay, I recognise I could equally be charged with being dismissive but moving right along.)

By putting yourself in such a rarefied club might you be guilty of the sins you see in others?

Perhaps though you have sympathy for the words of Mendele Mocher Sforim; “To influence a people one has to be the bone of their bone, flesh of their flesh; one has to have suffered their sorrows and felt their pain.”

Even then as Noam Chomsky found out last week after being barred from entering Israel, this is not always possible.

Oh by the way I do get it.

Cont..