A 13 storey mosque is proposed to be built within two blocks of the twin towers site.
The developer of the site claims that his project is an attempt to encourage understanding between followers of different faiths.
Yet the same man has life-long ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, which has the stated aim of "destroying the miserable house of the West from within".
Should the mosque development be allowed in the interests of increased understanding or rejected as an affront to the relatives of the thousands who were killed on 9/11?
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-ground-zero-mosque-developer-muslim-brotherhood-roots-radical-dreams/?singlepage=true

The criminal and deceiver should not represent the wider community, so morally there can be no objection other than environmental to the mosque being there. I fail to see what 911 has to do with Moslems, because if we are pointing fingers the U.S. administration at some level helped, a lot. Given that should we stop a church being built in the mosques place?

Given that second post in the thread I truly must ask myself why am I here?
Why bother.
The question is not a bad one, it will never truly get an answer some can believe in.
Conciliatory or is it just another place of worship both sides will claim it is the other.
Lies are a weapon, often used too, we know surely that not all Muslims are a problem.
Far too many however are.
It is how ever not ground zero, close but not close enough, now both sides can tell each other it is provocation that drives a new war of words but in fact we let PC and such blind us to one point.
A great number of us think with great Passion any religion any at all, has far too much influence on humanity and that we must evolve and not let followers of any faith bind us to fantasy's.
And sonofagun you get the order of fantasia for your inferred post.

I think they are feeling very guilty since the truth is slowly coming out.The Muslims had very little to do with 911.I think they had no hand in it all.There needs to be a thorough investigation into not only the towers but building 7 186m tall,which came down in a controlled style demolition.Vey few people know about WTC 7.It took 6 yrs to put out a report on it.

Prof Niels Harrit along with Aust Dr Frank Legge and 7 other scientists,produced a peer reviewed paper on nano thermite which has not been challenged.Nano thermite military grade explosive was found in the dust and rubble of 911.

Prof Harrit will be in Sydney 17/7/10 @ the Mitchell Theartre.Syd Mechanical School of Arts. 280 Pitt St Sydney. Admission free but a donation of $10.00 is requested.

For further edidence see http://www.ae911truth.org/ I shall say no more.Make up your own mind.

Dear Proxy,

This is a decision that only New Yorkers can make.
We should leave it up to them to do so.

I do have a question though - will the mosque
and cultural center blend in architecturally
with the surrounding buildings (i.e. will
it look like a mosque or simply like any
other building in the area?), and will it be in
the line of vision of ground zero?

Are we going to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few militants. Christians in the main, are not judged for the atrocities committed by others in the name of Christianity - why don't we offer the same rights to Muslims (or any other group).

America is a secular nation built by immigration, as such there will be a number of different religions in residence. Where the Churches, Mosques, Synagogues are built is a matter for planning authorities in those States.

A Mosque near the ground zero may go a lot further to ease tensions and interfaith tolerance than an adverserial approach.

According to the links below the Imam involved was instrumental in establishing the Cordoba Initiative to ease tensions and called for greater understanding betwen the faiths.

As for the Muslim Brotherhood and terrorism - there are laws and enforcement bodies employed to prevent and apprehend terrorism - that won't change. In fact, tolerance and acceptance might turn out to be the greatest deterrence. People don't tend to terrorise if they have dignity and respect.

http://www.cordobainitiative.org/

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/05/06/2010-05-06_plan_for_mosque_near_world_trade_center_site_moves_ahead.html

I owe you a vote of thanks arjay.
you reminded me of my first reaction, I have no answer why I came.
But In your post and sonof a gun I see why I go.

While they’re at it why don’t we let them set up a swastika and a huge statue of Hitler in a Jewish cemetary.

The absolute arrogance and insensitivity of some of these Moslems in Western countries is breathtaking and the reason Westerners don’t like them much

Sonofgloin <should we stop a church being built in the same place>

Yes, if it is going to produce more religious fundamentalists who use God as an excuse for murdering and killing, by decreeing it a holy cause.

Let religion be between God and the individual not something decreed by todays equivilalent of some nutty witchdoctor called an Iman, a Priest or a Pope

Arjay<THE MUSLIMS HAD VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH 911>

Yes , and Elvis is not dead either.

You say Professor Harrit and seven other experts say that Nano Thermite military grade explosive was found in the dust and rubble.

It sounds to me as though the men who drove the planes into those buildings may have been carrying some of that stuff to make sure they did a good job on destroying those buildings.

Men and women on those planes who were in fear of dying rang their wives, husbands and sweethearts on mobile phones before they died stating that the terrorists were all middle-eastern in appearance.

I would believe those people before I would believe some dubious conspiracy theory. I have seen quite a few of these loved ones being interviewed after the twin towers and they all say that the people on those planes told them the terrorists were middle-eastern. Why would you lie about that to your loved ones and family when you rang up to tell them goodbye because you thought you were about to die.

For western governments to kill such a big number of their own people like that is not their way, but it is the middle-eastern way as you can see by Iraqis killing other Iraqis in Iraq.

Dear Cherful,

We shouldn't make assumptions about things
we don't know much about.

In this particular case - according to the
Herald Sun - very few New Yorkers actually
turned up at the Meeting when this proposal
was presented to the New York City Council. Plus,
the City Council passed the proposal
unanimously. It appears that the so called
"mosque" will actually be more of a
"cultural centre," and won't have an Islamic
appearance but will blend in with the surrounding
buildings. Therefore it won't be an "in your face"
type of confrontational structure by any standards.
And who goes into that building won't in any way
deter from the sanctity of "ground Zero."

But, as I said earlier - it's up to New Yorkers
to decide if this proposal is to go ahead or not.
Making judgements without knowing the full facts
for us, is not very intellgent, and tends to give
a narrow slant to our opinions.

Cherful. We are not going to turn this into a 911 debate.Just view the evidence and put your brain in gear before you shoot your mouth off.

ARJAY

DITTO

Firstly, let me state that in my world, all building developments would only be done with the permission of all locally-relevant persons and communities- but that aside being New York, I'm not so sure if the culture places strong emphasis on the right of free enterprise/ development etc- either way that's all I have to say.

To answer the question, depends on the people pushing for the cultural center doesn't it? If it was by some integrationist guy that's been trying to build bridges and staunchly opposed any extremist actions, then obviously it would be reconciliatory, if it were being put forward by CARE, Nation of Islam, Hizb ul Tahir or the Saudi Royals- it's obviously a provocative 'victory' political point-scoring excercise, otherwise it's just a big publicity stunt to get attention and advertise the center.

King Hazza.This development could be used as a wedge for power groups
to divide the US people or as a means of reconciliation.The USA is in a real mess.Congress is very corrupted.I just do not see a way out of the mire they have created for themselves ,yet the world is subserviant to the most powerful military machine on the planet.

Can a few honest men and women turn the tide of this depravity before it is too late?

It's a clash of civilisations. This sort of thing has been going on for millennia and will continue to do so. This is one downside to globalisation and access to different cultures. This conflict is a puppy.

Should they build this mosque?. No. Not yet. Maybe when these so called "moderate Muslims" take the fundamentalists by the short and curlies and give them smack down.

The good news is that the God of Israel will not be mocked for much longer. Secularist have much in common with bloodthirsty Islam. America like Australia will be judged as they have allowed godless secularist create a totally immoral society. Christ was and still is the only way of escape for those not to arrogant to humble themselves and receive forgiveness. The God that made America great is slowing lifting His hand of blessing of that once blessed nation. As their support for the nation of Israel decreases and they murder their unborn and they embrace godless Islam they are headed down the tube. Hopefully they will experience revival before it is to late. The spread of Islam is and will be God's judgement upon countries stupid enough to embrace secularism. Just look at Europe. Imagine living in Germany in 50 years time (especially as a woman). It seems it is far to late for Europe who have rejected Christ and embraced the idolatry of secular humanism. They are already reaping what they have sown with many no go zones and the ever creeping Sharia law. Thankfully in the end Islam will be destroyed but many will lose their lives before that happens.

Belly, <<And sonofagun you get the order of fantasia for your inferred post.>>

Bellly my apprehension in regard to 911 comes from thirty years earlier. When a guy named Jack Ruby who shot Oswald shortly after the Kennedy assassination was found to be a lifelong criminal who ran strip clubs and had an ongoing association with Marcello and Trafficante both godfathers in the Mafia. Further he spent time in Cuba with Mafia gambling boss McWillie who was later involved in the plot to have Castro assassinated. Suddenly he out of 160 million Americans outraged at Oswalds actions decided to fix the problem by killing Oswald. Suddenly the biggest patriot of all. Belly do not believe what the media spin, look behind the news, the best place to start is looking at who gains from the event, then make a judgment on who the instigators are.

Another "Whack a mozzi" post from Proxy.

However, it would not be the most sensitive idea, given that the 911 perpetrators were claiming to represent Islam.

Indeed.

>>Another "Whack a mozzi" post from Proxy<<

Sadly, they are becoming ever more frequent.

And on the flimsiest of excuses, too.

Pericles,
How so flimsy?
If a group of Christian fundamentalists flew multiple passenger jets into skyscrapers
in Riyadh screaming "Jesus Christ is Lord!!" would you grant the inhabitants
of that city the right to raise objections to the building of a 13 storey church near
the site where thousands of their fellow inhabitants had died a fiery death?
Or would they be racist "Whack-a-chrissies"?
But wait.
Problem solved.
The Saudis don't allow any churches to be built in their country.
Silly me, I am a racist.

It is a reasonable question and there is a need to work through the issue to get as many people as possible on board. Thousands are still suffering through the loss of loved ones and many live in constant fear. Muslims must wonder why they are being put in the frame with terrorists and would be concerned what they have to do to ever set things right.

That is not healthy and it is not helped by taking sides.

Americans are a very generous, forgiving and tolerant people, so I doubt that the majority would go along with some of the comments encouraged by shock jocks and media hacks.

Notwithstanding that, Shadow Minister is right in my view to question whether it is the most sensitive thing to do in close proximity to the scene of previous devastation.

The media thrives on sensationalism and we have no idea what is proposed other than the basics. If the mosque had artwork or a message imploring world peace, tolerance and acceptance would that make a difference? It would do so for me, especially if some of the peak churches could come together along with the Muslims to create a symbol of peace outside/near the mosque. Peace has to be made with America's Muslims too - what did they have to do with 9/11 anyhow?

Proxy, don't you know that 9/11 was a CIA/Mossad joint venture, and nothing whatsoever to do with Islam?

>>If a group of Christian fundamentalists flew multiple passenger jets into skyscrapers in Riyadh screaming "Jesus Christ is Lord!!...<<

Ask daggett, or Arjay - they'll put you right.

But leaving conspiracy fantasies aside for the moment, let's have a look at your "justification" for your anti-Muslim diatribes.

>>...would you grant the inhabitants of that city the right to raise objections to the building of a 13 storey church near the site where thousands of their fellow inhabitants had died a fiery death? Or would they be racist "Whack-a-chrissies"? But wait. Problem solved. The Saudis don't allow any churches to be built in their country.<<

As I understand your argument, you would prefer that we adopt the Saudi approach, and allow only one type of church to be built?

I personally prefer to live in a free and tolerant country, that does not impose a single religion - or indeed any religion - on its people.

Fortunately, New York also values these freedoms.

"The 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center was unanimously endorsed by the 12-member Community Board 1's financial district committee."

Clearly, these folk don't want to become as closed-minded as Saudis, any time soon.

You also omit to mention that the Pope is working with King Abdullah to change the situation.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=57276

But, back to your original point, re excuses to expose here your fear and loathing:

>>How so flimsy?<<

You have taken a perfectly straightforward real estate transaction, that occurred in another city in another country, one that has received the unanimous support of the local Community Board, and applied to it your own fears and prejudices, in order to make a whack-a-mozzie topic from it.

I call that flimsy.

Have a fearful day.

A proposed mosque near Ground Zero is conciliatory.

I agree with the Americans in that they can't be seen to favour one culture or religion over another in a multicultural country.

Refusing to build Mosques will only further inflame rivalry between Christians and Muslims.

Proxy, do you ever think about any other subject?
Maybe you need to see someone about these irrational fears you have?

suzeonline,

What's irrational about fearing a "religion" which has the stated aim of global domination and exhorts its followers to kill those who don't submit to its dictates?

<<Refusing to build Mosques will only further inflame rivalry between Christians and Muslims>>
That's like saying refusing to ban Mohammed cartoons will only inflame rivalry between Muslims and cartoonists.

so so funny that the same people who are happy to have a mosque mock those murdered by Muslims threw such tantrums when creationist wanted to build a museum showing how foolish evolution is. Secularist really do have more in common with 'the religion of peace' than they care to admit.

Pericles,the invitation to meet Prof Neils Harrit is still open.I will pay for your entry.17/7/10.In fact you can come armed with all the venom and hate of a billion muslims/jews and we will allay all your fears.

The truth is the most powerful tool on the planet and when love walks by it's side,justice will prevail.

Runner, I have far more respect for Muslim requirements for Mosques than I ever would for a crazy 'creationist museum'.

If your mad ramblings are an example of creationist thinking, then a museum of this nature would be a frightening place indeed.

suzieonline

I am sure you would look good in a burqa. I can't say I would feel all that good having mu kids around the morality you espouse.

I'm rather inclined to the david f view on this, Arjay.

>>Pericles,the invitation to meet Prof Neils Harrit is still open.I will pay for your entry.<<

He pointed out, rather pithily, I thought:

"I am not obligated to examine the evidence of a crank who carries a sign on a street corner announcing that the world is coming to an end next Thursday."

Thanks for the offer to pay, by the way, but it isn't the cost that deters me.

It's the fact that it will be an hour of my life that I will never get back.

And what's this all about?

>>In fact you can come armed with all the venom and hate of a billion muslims/jews and we will allay all your fears.<<

There's obviously a point in there struggling to get out. But I couldn't find it.

Care to explain?

>>The truth is the most powerful tool on the planet and when love walks by it's side,justice will prevail.<<

Aaaah. Sweet.

But what has truth got to do with your bizarre 9/11 thought-bubbles?

Much like Judicial opinion reflecting the politics/social agenda of the party which appoints the judge (US supreme court).. I sense that the interpretation of the opening day for the mosque..being 9/11 could be seen either way.. "provocative" or.. "conciliatory"..

Perhaps one needs to examine more evidence to seek a balance of probability answer ?

The battle of Vienna in 1683 where the Ottomans were finally turned back..occured on the 11th(and 12th) of September.

If ur a Muslim ? this date might be significant and be a factor in not only the original attack date, but also the opening date for the mosque.
If ur secular person.. and unaware of history, quite likely you would see 'conciliation' in the chosen date?

Oh, so it IS you, BOAZ_David.

Welcome back!

Dear Proxy,

Are you really BOAZ_David?

Foxy,

I’m not sure that Proxy is Boaz, but with the two dot ellipses, the spaces either side of the question marks and ‘you’re’ spelled ‘ur’, I’m pretty certain that the “BD” in “no_THIS_ismeBD” stands for BOAZ_David.

I think there are some lovely Muslims who would definitely see such a mosque as conciliatory... and never allow their minds to be influenced by the hard liners.

Sadly..there are those hard liners who will take a different view.

On our side we have Proxy and Runner who take a rather stern view of it all..and various others who feel they are over-reacting.

Takes all types to make a world.

Perhaps we need the wisdom to know the difference and not treat one group as if they were the other ?

It certainly is a difficult challenge to react uniformly to. It might even depend on which 'faction' happens to control the mosque at any time... nothing seems to stay the same these days.

I suppose I could always throw a lot of money at them and say "be kind and I'll give you more" :)

Do you know what really get to me is -
how come the New York City Council
unanimously approved this proposal?
Surely they would be the ones who
should be concerned about this issue,
and yet apparently they're not!
Why is that? And yet here we all are,
arguing about the matter - when in
fact we don't live there, it doesn't
affect any of us, and the people who
should give a damn - apparently don't!
Why not? Could it be that all this is
just a storm in a teacup? If the
New York City Council doesn't see a
problem with this proposal, then why
should any of us?

Hey Foxy

it occured to me that your logic "if they don't see a problem with it..why should we?" could be applied to the "Obama Accelarates" thread.

Israel see's no problem with what they do... why should we ? :)

Foxy, Proxy is the latest incarnation of HermanYutic, KMB etc.

ALGOREisRICH is the latest incarnation of BOAZ_David, Polycarp, no_THIS_ismeBD etc.

I hope this helps. If either of them was honest they would have answered your question.

Foxy,
You appear to be stating that any decision made by anybody of authority anywhere should not be questioned.
Or is permission to comment an inverse function of distance and degree of consensus?
Please explain.
Would you accept as valid the opinion of an ex-Muslim woman who is now a resident of New York?
http://www.hudsonny.org/2010/05/mosque-at-ground-zero-equals-victory.php

Dear AG,

The difference between Israel and
the New York City Council should be
obvious to you. As should the reasons
for why we need to be concerned
about the affairs of one and not the other.

Dear Proxy,

You should really analyze the situation in
New York City. And make a more intelligent
summation of the facts involved. The New
York City Council voted unaanimously for
the proposal. They represent the Community
and its people

Dear Foxy

New York... WTC attacked in 1993 attacked on 9/11 2001

Israel.. attacked on more occasions than I care to remember.

Difference ?

Councils NEVER represent "the people"..they represent political and social interest groups..

In order to get elected they 'posture' themselves as caring for the downtrodden.. hmm like Margaret Hodge the Labour Member in UK who almost weeps when talking about the downtrodden unfairly treated marginalized lot.. and the poor workers .. and guess what.. she is the RICHest woman in the Labour party with a personal fortune of over 50 million pounds or thereabouts. (PS..her brothers steel company is worth over 200 million pounds and guess what.. most of his investments/expansion this year will be 'outside' the UK. way2go representing 'the people'.

Here is how she 'represents' the people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Hodge#Child_abuse_controversy

"SPIN" and broad vague promises get people elected.. 'sloguns' etc. but seldom is it 'represnting the people'. They definitely represent 'some' people.. but 'which ones' is the key.

OOOOH.. just remembered..here is another :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Mason

WOW.. not bad.. from 'almost' convicted terrorist bomber... to Labour Equalities commissioner ? :)

Ah yes.. 'Councilors (Politicians) represent the people'....

After all..the evidence is right there before us :)

Dear AG,

We're talking at cross purposes here.
These are two separate issues.
I won't go into human rights issues,
or the history of the Israeli/Palestinian
conflict. There's no need.

As I've written in my other posts - this
matter is for the people of New York City
to resolve. It is not an international issue.
But a question of real estate.
With Israel it's a different matter - the
humanity of Palestinians should be of concern
to us all.

Up to the old tricks, I see ALGOREisRICH. Didn't take long, did it?

>>[Angela Mason] not bad.. from 'almost' convicted terrorist bomber... to Labour Equalities commissioner ?<<

(Do you mind if I go back to calling you Boaz, by the way - so much easier to type.)

So, what do we have here?

Innuendo - tick.

As far as you are concerned, she was obviously guilty back then, when in her twenties she was tried as part of the Stoke Newington Eight. Am I right?

This was the Angry Brigade we are talking about, don't forget. Their rampages through the length and breadth of the UK yielded but one minor injury, but got four people ten-year sentences. A piece of quaint British media-fuelled paranoia, treating the Keystone Cops as if they were a death squad.

What else...

Dark hints of evildoings - tick.

Ah, yes - the lady was awarded first the OBE, then the CBE, for her services to... uh oh. Gay rights.

No wonder you are upset, Boaz. We all know your feelings on THAT topic, don't we? Short of being a founder member of NAMBLA, there's no greater sin in your book, is there.

Anything else?

Veiled allusions to a thoroughly broken society...

>>Ah yes.. 'Councilors (Politicians) represent the people'<<

...suggesting, of course, that they do no such thing.

Newsflash. Those you have mentioned do not represent you, Boaz. And they are probably exceedingly glad that they don't have to.

It's refreshing to see that you bring all your old prejudices back with you. A tribute to all that is stable and predictable in this world.

So, do tell. Are you also no_THIS_ismeBD?

How did you pull that trick?

PERICLES:

QUOTE
This was the Angry Brigade we are talking about, don't forget. Their rampages through the length and breadth of the UK yielded but one minor injury, but got four people ten-year sentences. A piece of quaint British media-fuelled paranoia, treating the Keystone Cops as if they were a death squad.
ENDQUOTE

WIKIPEDIA

The Angry Brigade was a British libertarian communist militant group responsible for bomb attacks in Britain between 1970 and 1972.

Strongly influenced by anarchism and the Situationists, their targets included banks, embassies and the homes of Tory MPs. In total, 25 bombings were attributed to them by the police. The damage done by the bombings was mostly limited to property damage although one person was slightly injured.

COMMENT
I see Pericles in his balance and consistency and accuracy has singled out the ONE fact which is the least important when 25 bombs have gone off. "only one person was slightly injured" Of course.. "intended outcomes" mean nothing to you..do they?

Well done Pericles.. nothing biased in you is there?

But wait..there is more on Mason:

QUOTE
During the late 1960s and early 1970s Mason was a supporter of the Angry Brigade terrorist group. She was one of the Stoke Newington Eight charged with planting or sending bombs which aimed to maim or kill government Ministers, their families and Conservative Party officials. She was one of the four accused who managed to gain an acquittal as a result of a long and still controversial trial[2]. Mason still refuses to discuss the trial in interviews today.[3]
Mason was an activist in the trade union and radical movements.
ENDQUOTE

Yep..Pericles, nothing biased or selective or prejudiced about you :)

Fortunately the readers can 'read'.

They can also 'read' your own vested interest here..and it certainly is not in the interests of balance or truth...hmmm perhaps a bit of political solidarity? c'mon..which union is it Pericles? Unite?.. fess up.

Same old Boazy. Why don't you "fess up", Boazy?

Why the deception?

Dear CJ,

Thanks for setting me straight earlier.

But are you sure about AG?

Surely if he's BOAZ_David he'd tells us,
I mean, As you posted,
why the deception?

Just putting things into perspective for you, Boaz.

>>I see Pericles in his balance and consistency and accuracy has singled out the ONE fact which is the least important when 25 bombs have gone off. "only one person was slightly injured" Of course.. "intended outcomes" mean nothing to you..do they?<<

True. In terms of "intended outcomes", they failed. They never actually intended to hurt anyone at all, only to destroy property, in the grand "property is theft" tradition.

>>During the late 1960s and early 1970s Mason was a supporter of the Angry Brigade terrorist group<<

I'm sure we all did stupid things in our lives that we later regret. In fact, society is all the better for accepting a reformed person, who goes on to do "good works" for many decades.

Now that I think about it, isn't there one of the world religions that builds quite a strong selling-point around its attitude towards sinners?

And the forgiveness that they may receive, if they truly repent?

You are more attuned to religious stuff than I, Boaz, perhaps you can enlighten me as to which one that is?

And you're bringing in the Unions now? On what grounds?.

>>Yep..Pericles, nothing biased or selective or prejudiced about you. Fortunately the readers can 'read'. They can also 'read' your own vested interest here..and it certainly is not in the interests of balance or truth...hmmm perhaps a bit of political solidarity? c'mon..which union is it Pericles? Unite?.. fess up.<<

I love the way you impute motives to other people - almost at random, it would appear.

No, Boaz. No ulterior motives. Just a desire to present a balanced view.

And you are absolutely right about one thing.

Readers can and will work out for themselves who is being economical with the information provided, and who prefers to see the whole picture.

Pericles said:

"innuendo" ? ROFL (first time)

//No ulterior motives. Just a desire to present a balanced view.
I'm sure we all did stupid things in our lives that we later regret.//

Yep..I DO regret heisting a crate of soft drink from the truck up the street one night when I was 14... evil stuff for sure.. hmm what's the penalty for that huge crime ? ummm.. "severe talking to by the magistrate" ?

BALANCED ? rofl you really are good for a friday dear Pericles :)

You regard a person who supported a bombing campaign as 'just one of those stupid things we do' ?

That's what I mean.. people can read that.. doncha know ?

I'm not going into the religious aspects of it at all.. nothing to do with it.. just pure politics.

Bomber is now equalities commissioner- she is also a lesbian.. hmm

yep..I can see the Bishop of Herefordshire walking out of her inquistion shaking his head muttering to himself "Gee.. 47,000 pounds! I didn't see THAT coming-seems just a tad harsh"
(for his rejection of a gay applicant for Christian youth leader)

This kind of insanity makes as much sense as my favorite - "The impartial aboriginal judge on the Federal court deciding on land rights" :)

FOXY
I suggest a walk along Camelia track.. in those favorite hills of yours. but if you pass a kind of bog hole.. watch out for the Wallaby..it scared the hell out of me when it jumped up and ran off. We can agree to disagree on the representativeness of councils. I'm a total bigot there :)

I'm going to sleep very well tonight.

Dear AG,

Thanks for sharing the fact that -

You're going to sleep well tonight.

Of course you are, and so you should!

Any day above ground is a good day!

Dear oh dear. It seems that Boazy's time out didn't have any therapeutic effect at all. Indeed, this latest sockpuppet is almost a caricature of his former odious self.

Others can play with him if they want, but I couldn't be bothered. Mind you, I will undoubtedly lampoon his more egregious offerings when I can't resist.

As I recall, one of his redeeming features is that he always provides a few inadvertent chuckles in a Schadenfreude kind of way.

Folks.. look up "Shadenfreude"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

It will give much insight into the mind and heart of mr Morgan...and why he laughs. It might also given some inkling on why he 'thinks' as he does.

Dear AG,

Re-read CJ's post.

You do have a perception problem.

Foxy :) ur right..I don't have the slighest clue what either you or CJ meant *smile*

PROXY....

The battle with your 'usual suspect' combatants is most clearly illustrated by 'where' they would like to take us all.

That awful destination is shown here.

CANADIAN HUMAN REICH COMMISSION.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Human_Rights_Commission_free_speech_controversies

Finally, the Post criticized the procedures and structure of HRC hearings, citing a number of specific problems:

* Third parties NOT involved in the alleged offences may nonetheless file complaints.
* Plaintiffs have sometimes been given access to the commissions' investigation files and given the power to direct investigators.
* Truth is NOT a defence.
* Defendants are NOT always permitted to face their accusers.
* Normal standards for assuring the validity of evidence do NOT apply.
* Hearsay IS admitted.
* The GOVERNMENT funds the plaintiff but the defendant is on his/her own.

Could a Commission EVER be more stacked against rational objectivity and natural justice ?

IMAGINE if someone placed the following online in Melbourne with our RRT2001

"If the Muslims, Buddhists and Jews, refuse to answer the call of Christ, and will not pay 10% income tithe to the ArchBishop , then it is obligatory for Christians to fight them if they are able.
Islam is a religion of lies, which is responsible for all of our perversity, corruption and adultery.The incredible number of gays and lesbians (may GOD curse and destroy them in this life and the next) who sow disorder upon the Earth and who desire to increase their numbers should be executed."

There would be an outcry and outrage and law suits uncountable.. the police intelligence would be all over the speaker of those words like the worst rash he ever had... and the Human Rights Commission would probably go apoplectic and pass a new law for 'Stocks' to be re-introduced specially for the speaker/writer of such things.

But when you see 'who' spoke similar words.. and how the Human Rights Commission actually treated him.... you will see just what the rational thinker is up against.(just compare and contrast the actions and outcomes in the link below) Al Hayati and Chiv Chopra in particular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Human_Rights_Commission_free_speech_controversy#Recent_cases

This...dear Proxy, is our real enemy.

PS... if you look up... up.. a bit further..to the ADVERT in the banner..one of the ads is for

16 July, Monash. Human Rights 2010...

I might be there :) just off the property line *wink*