The Mad Mufti – Again!

Now, according to this person, Muslims have more right to be in Australia than “those with a convict heritage”.

Muslims have a right to be here only because our silly politicians allowed them to be here. The convicts had no choice.

The silliest part of the latest outburst in Egypt is that a mere 3% of Australians have any connection at all to convicts.

Allying European Australians with convicts is like allying all Muslims with terrorists.

The director of FAIR, Forum on Australia’s Islamic Relations, suggests that the Lebanese community should give the Mufti the boot.

Fat chance! The Lebanese clearly support the man or they would have done that a long time ago.

The fact that this idiot is in Australia at all is down to Australian weakness in the form of Paul Keating.

Don’t blame the Mufti who is obviously an extreme example of the backwardness of Islam. Blame our stupid politicians and demand that they do something about him. It’s all very well for Alexander Downer to say that noone takes any notice of the comments, and we all know that John Howard is keeping his head down prior to retirement.

The bludgers in Canberra need to be jolted into action. They allowed him into the country. They should clean up the mess

Graeme Campbell was kicked out of the Labour party for predicting this stuff 10-15 years ago. The Greens, Democrats and Labour are as weak as water on immigration policy. They want to appease everyone except those who have lived here for generations. Their ideology is more important than protecting and enhancing Western values. Unfortunately the Liberals are the best of a very poor bunch when it comes to Immigration. I think the problem is that the Liberals know this which means they don't need to act until it hurts them at the ballot box. I hope it does not take any more Cronulla Riots to get through to the politicians.

'They want to appease everyone except those who have lived here for generations.'

Wow, how many generations have you been here for? I've only been here for part of one generation, on account of the fact I'm only one person. So either you're really, really old, or you're under the mistaken impression that you have more of a right to a country because of the location in which your parents had sex..

The Mad Mufti (love It)
He was looking so relaxed with his little hat perched up on his head and espousing once again that we are scum and they are not.(yes, us and them)

It would be laughable if it were not so serious. This man holds what I and many others would consider the highest office of muslims in Australia so in that context is the most influential of the lot.
Mad or not thats a fact or he would have been removed from his position long ago. If he thinks this crap then logic dictates that a majority of muslims also believe this crap.
John,Alexander,peter, Im pretty sure we have a big problem here.

Question. Is the government going to do somthing about it or are they going to move the peoples hand and force us to fix it for them?

Your next Cronulla may well be a crowd in the 10s of 1000s in multiple cities.
I say roll on Mad Mufti, p*&s us right off, the resolve of the Skip is hardening especially when we catch your BS with our coffee in the morning.

There is only one thing that needs to be done

remove his Australian Status and get rid of this peice of garbage who is not only a discrace to his own people but to all Australians.

This moron is inciting violence and what is next an terrosit atack in Australia,

Hang on us poor pathetic people who have no right whould just be told if this happened its ok you took it out of context.

Yeah right our government are morons to lazy and not having the guts.

Its about Bl##dy time a real party was put in place to remove the garbage like this, But then the people are probably too scared too ashamed to try.

Email: swulrich@bigpond.net.au

Australian Peoples Party

Spendocrat, I was born here, therefore I have an indisputable right to be here. If you were born elsewhere, you have the ability to come here, but not the RIGHT. Big difference. If you subsequently become a citizen, that gives you the right, but I dont think its the same right, unless you renounce any other citizenship that you have (Australia does not require this at present, so we have plenty of dual citizens, with potentially questionable loyalties). So yes, I think it DOES matter where your parents have sex.

From what I understand after the last outburst from this twit (the mufti), he is only here on visa. Not a citizen. So revoke his residency status. Or at the very least publicly set parameters that define when his residency will be revoked (eg one more comment whether misunderstood or not, about rape). He cant be allowed to carry on with the type of comments that he has been making and simply be allowed to make an apology (or rather, have his henchmen apologise for him). He needs to understand that he is a guest of this country, and should therefore behave with the decency of a guest, otherwise should expect that his host show him the door.

What astounds me is the extent to which people will go to erect concentric circles of denial around Taj Al Hilali. This is a man who holds the highest office in Australian Islamdom. His opinions do not exist in a vacuum they are in fact representative of the entire muslim world's stance on matters of rape. They were the views of his father and his mother. They are also the views of his children and the 10,000 muslims who protested his being censured outside Lakemba mosque soon after his first round of pro rape statements were exposed.

Taking for example France which is destined to demographically enter the Islamic world within the next four decades a hobby has emerged amongst the Islamic youths of the growing slums called "tournantes" which roughly translated into english is called "the turning". It is a slang expression for gang rape. At least initially this phenomenon in France was confined to Muslim women who made the unfortunate choice of trying to pursue a hijab free western lifestyle. Increasingly it is being directed at western women in France owing to the offenders ability to retreat to anyone of the 2,500 no go Muslim zones that the French police find impossible to enter. If you don't believe me check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CltFn/Samira_Bellil
and
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20646

Leigh, thank you for this thread.

I agree with you that this mufti should be given the boot by the Lebanese community. I’m sure they can find someone better to represent their community.
Is Sheik Taj al-Din al-Hilali too stupid to realise that he may be damaging the Muslim society by these comments?

I’m pleased to read that Australian Muslim communities are distancing themselves from the sheik. Now our government has to do something about him, too.

However, we should take care not to blame Muslims ‘as a group’ for al-Hilali’s comments.
Too many Australians are anti-Muslim; stupid and unsubstantial comments this Mufti has made do not encourage other groups in Australia to respect the Muslim community.
For this reason al-Hilali should be booted out.

I have said in other threads on OLO that I do not feel adversity towards the Muslim religion as such- it’s individuals like Hilali who should be pointed out as ‘bad apples’ and dealt with. And this Mufti is a bad apple.
That Muslims have more right to be here than those with a convict history is just as a ridiculous statement as the comment that Australian women are comparable with meat.
This moron is a repeat offender. I think it’s best if we don’t take this moron seriously.

The ‘group’ of Muslims has no more right to be here then groups of groups with a convict history, and vice versa.

Whether someone has the right to be here or not should be based on his/her individual circumstances and not the group s/he belongs to.

Spendocrat: Hehe, I like your logic ;)

Leigh said: "The silliest part of the latest outburst in Egypt is that a mere 3% of Australians have any connection at all to convicts."

Another convincing reason why potential citizens need to take an Australian history test.

Celivia, your a fool if you dont think we have more rights to this country than muslims.
Ever been to the war memorial, we earnt the right to this land its ours and I for one dont care how they came here . My grandfather was beheaded by Japs fighting for this country in PNG,WW2. The sacrifices of the old fellows means that we do have more rights, that was thier legacy to us and now we have a breed from within trying to sell that legacy to the dregs of dyfunctional countries who want a place to breed and live off us like the parasites they are.
Spendocrat Im assuming your parents didnt have sex in this country. Otherwise you might actually care what happens here or perhaps you dont plan to breed so its of no conseqeunce what happens after your gone. Some of the posters in this forum are a bunch of oxygen thieves you know who you are.
We should leave Hilali in place im thinking, that way at least we can get an accurate account of what muslims think of us,probably the only immigrant poobag the left cant alighn itself with but they have tried.
Trad should be kept there as well its always funny to here how he is going to defend his nutbag boss

Well said, Runner. Unfortunately the Liberals have also let us down – all mouth and trousers - and Amanda Vanstone is a complete dud as Immigration Minister. The Liberals caved into their lefty backbenchers.

No, Scotty. It appears that the government will do nothing until it is too late. I hope though that we will not have more Cronullas, but that sort of public action is always on the cards.

Tapp,

Another thing we agree on. There is really no such thing as the Mufti of Australia as this nutter styles himself, incidentally.

With any luck, he will see or hear Australian news in Egypt and decide to stay there. We cannot expect any action from JH and Co.

Unfortunately, CG, I think he now is a citizen. But, if governments have the guts and the backing of the people, they could soon enough take that away from him.

Yes, Homefront. You have taken the trouble to find out for yourself that there really is a great deal of difference between them and us, no matter what the deniers and apologists say.

Celivia,

I would like to think that we could separate Hilaly from most Muslims, but Islam and its practitioners play their cards very close to their chests, and it is impossible to take them at their word.

Glad that we have agreed on something, though :)

Cheers, glad someone likes it...

I hate when the word 'rights' gets thrown around so disposably.

People kind of forget what human rights are. We have a right to live the life we choose, yes and live in peace, totally, but no one has more of a right to land than anyone else - how can anyone actually own land? We belong to the land. Not the other way round. Just because we're smart enough to write up bits of paper to say we own land doesn't make it any more true. We're still just decaying matter like everything else.

The other point is - if you accept you have a right to land, with that right comes a responsibility: in this case, to share your incredibly good fortune (pure luck of where you were born gave you the life you have. You didnt earn it) with those who weren't so lucky. You cant hold your rights to your chest and ignore the responsibility, they are inextricably intwined. Otherwise its called...um...greed, I believe :)

Yes, and that hooby jeeby guy is a moron. Doesn't take a genius to realise that. I suggest ignoring stupid people. Relax. Giggle, shake your head: 'geez some people are idiots', and get on with appreciating your own good fortune.

I wish I could say: Appreciate it NOW, or it'll be given to someone who will appreciate it properly. Unfortunately life isn't that fair.

Urgh, yes, my parents conceived in Australia. Grandparents too. Logically it follows that I must be Australian.

But more than identifying myself as an Australian, I am a human being first, and am concerned about matters concerning all of my fellow human beings, not just the ones who happen to be in my immediate vicinity.

And for the record, all my oxygen is acquired legally. Meany pants.

There is one option and one option only and it seems the government can only say if you dont like it dont come back.

How much more of mufti the moronic clown do we have to tolerate.

His re entry to Australia should be revoked for good.

Also any one else who does not uphold the rights and beliefs then I will personaly show then the door.

I make no excuses for my words as being ex army i do love my country and my way of life and some moron is not going to tell me i dont belong.

do you really want him back.

email. swulrich@bigpond.net.au

Leigh,
Yeah with many people we may agree on one topic but not on another. It’s not a personal thing and I’m happy to agree with part of what you say : )
I do understand where you come from when you say it’s impossible to take their word, but I do believe that some morons like this Mufti cause a lot of unnecessary trouble for Muslims.
Spendocrat is right: firstly, we are people and as people we have rights. Human rights.

Scotty,
“Celivia, your a fool if you dont think we have more rights to this country than muslims”
What Muslims?
I refuse to talk about Muslims as if they were not individuals and blame them all for what a stupid sheik says.
I see Australian Muslims as I see other immigrants; some are wonderful, others are idiots, just like other Australians and people all over the world.

Australia is full of immigrants and as individuals they all have a right to be here- the Australian consulate accepted them because they had something to offer Australia, didn’t they?

Aren’t all immigrants thoroughly checked out including police reports? If they were accepted as immigrants by the Australian consulate then they have as much right to be here as other immigrants or Australians.

Don’t we, as an Australian nation, all need to work together and try to be respectful of one another to be able to be a successful nation?

Australia welcomed immigrants because they were needed not only for their skills and knowledge but also to prop up a declining population and to boost the economy. Without immigrants Australia would not be what it is today. That includes ALL immigrants- I don’t like to exclude Muslims just because of their beliefs.

continued below

There are lots of wonderful Muslims living in Australia who just live like we all do: they started a family, they have jobs, they educate their children, they practice their religion just like Christians. They really do not deserve to suffer verbal abuse and rejection because of a few ‘bad apples’ in their communities like their moron Mufti.

As an atheist, I can see some good and bad in most religions. I do not like Islam at all but I can see lots wrong with Christianity as well.

Oxygen thieves- funny man- perhaps immigrants can bring their own oxygen (and water) from now on.

Anyway, we all seem to agree that Sheik Taj al-Din al-Hilali should get the boot because of his stupid, insulting comments.

Yes the Mufit may have said something out of kilter, but the anti-muslim crap here surpasses anything in bad taste he has said.

No I would have to disagree not anti Islam anti

MUFTI THE MORON CLOWN

If you wish to include the rest of Australias Islamic community who would now be australians then it is you trying to rain in on your own parade.

He reeps the seeds that he sows.

Those that wish to join his circus then they deserve the criticism as well.

We dont want him

get rid of the clown

this guy is a joke if anyone thinks he wont open his stupid trap again is kidding themselves. You can set your watch by him.

The govenment should not let this guy back in. while there at it round up all of his 'cats' and get rid of them before they start taking the meat out of our freezers.

Tapp,

And then after the Mufti is gone, who then?

The next Mufit, and the one after him?

There have been elected Anglo politicians who have said worse

things - but do you guys call for a lynch mob then?

Your weasel words and diagonal insinuations don't fool me for minute.

Your tin-pot political party (that no-one wants to join) is just a

cover for a k-mart version of One nation.

And did you know less than 20% of you can claim to have convict heritage.

A pit you can’t be as vehement in advocating for the rights of refugees who arrive on
leaky boats.

But this would mean you’d have to grow a heart wouldn’t it. And there’s no chance of that this side of the next 100 years.

You’re all a bunch of sad misfits in your own society.

If you like I will come down to sydney and tell them what we think of their mufti.
do you think they will be tolerant.
do they wish to accept australia values.

Like we had at cronula Islamists beating up lifesavers, what did they do try to give mouth to mouth to one of their peices of meat.

We are tolerant now wake up to yourself.

You can call the Australian Peoples Party whatever you like but i can see that tolerance from those that live in australia, and call themselves islamic do not hold anything of australia precious.

The only alegience they hold is to islam.

If you dont like it you join them.

Just like his cousin had said its all taken out of context.

What a moron.

Everyday i recieve extra members.

All,
In the past I’ve been critical of aspects of Islam & many of those who “represent” - & I do not resile from that.

But in fairness -I’d like to acknowledge & thank the spokespersons for the Forum on Australia’s Islamic Relations for their quick & succinct condemnation of al-Hilaly.
They have shown backbone & sound judgment -THANK YOU! (or maybe even, thanks mate(S)!)

……………………………….........................................................
I didn’t hear the interview -perhaps some who did can tell me.
How were al-Hilalys comments received by the interviewers on Cairo TV ?.
We can image how interviewers from SBS or ABC, or even the commercial channels( NOT TO MENTION RABBLEROUSERS LIKE RAINIER) , would have reacted to someone saying whites/Anglos had more claim, than some other race in Aust or for that matter the USA or the UK or NZ. And following on from the interviewers response, we can also envisage the Australian “ publics” response via the broadcasters switch board & letters to the editor etc.etc.

But what was the reaction in Cairo ?

MY great great grandfather fought in the first world war doing his duty as an Australian over 80 years ago protecting this great land and played his part as a great Australian.

His grave lies on a cattle property in the gulf of Carpentaria (about 4000ks from western sydney) and the rest of my family have lived by the Australian values the he helped establish for this country.

Rainer if you so call us a lynch mob because we stand for what we believe in so be it.

By the way i have no qualms about anyone who lives in australia under AUSTRALIAN VALUES AND LAWS but ill ask you 2 questions.

why was this nation free of the issues it faces at the moment 20 years ago?

What was your GG grandfather doing 80 years ago or more like where was he?

Tapp,
I seriously dissagree with you.

The Mad Muffti should stay here and in his present position. Damn it, who else can you rely on to let the public know what Muslims actually think and what their kids are taught. The only other one is that Sheik Feiz Mohammed, of "they deserve it" fame.

The Sheiks words carry more credence with the community than our postings here ever will. You should encourage him to speak out.

Banjo...check this out bro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm8XY01Er_E&mode=related&search=

What do you make of it ?

Which state are u in mate ?

This garbage has been coming from the muslim spokespeople for years...as far back as 1996, it is nothing new in islamic hatred for Australians.

http://worldwar111.blogspot.com/2006/02/racisim-islamic-response.html

Rutager said: "What was your GG grandfather doing 80 years ago or more like where was he?"

How is this relevant? Personally, my paternal GG grandfather died more than 80 years ago, somewhere in German Silesia. Are you insinuating that the millions of European immigrants who came here during the 20th century are somehow "less" Australian than yourself?

Free speach in Australia and the western world is a lie.
We are not free to speak as we wish on this subject, or many others.
While not supporting Cronulla, surely this mans actions are far worse?
And the lies that his supporters use to defend him too?
As an Australian of convict stock will my post be deleated for saying I no longer think it wise to continue Muslim migration untill the rights of those already here, us convicts, are respected?
That with the best will in the world I still doupt we can live together.
Only mainstream moderate Mulsims can prove me wrong, but the silence is telling.

Nice little feeding frenzy for the usual Islamophobes. Of course Australian Muslims should sack the Mad Mufti if they want to be taken seriously as Australian citizens, otherwise he'll continue to provide fodder for non-Muslims who are frightened of people who are different from them.

As far as I'm as I'm concerned, Hilaly only differs by degree from any other religious nutter - but I bet his days as Australia's leading Muslim cleric are numbered.

I find it ironic that most of you are banging on about our inalienable right to this country over the 'invading' Muslims - yet noone has acknowledged the Aboriginals we stole it from.

Oligarch, Im just saying that people that make a habit of defending these peoples extreme views probaly have no australian heritage and dont seem to realise the sacrifice paid by our ancestors to make Australia what it is today.

In my view an Australian is someone who likes the place as it is and can live by the values that it stands for no matter what your background not how long your family has been here.

Its just the people who have recently waltz on in and think they can change everything to suit themselves or worse thier religion. Some of these people arnt even australian citizens.

If it aint broke dont fix it

I take it Audrey that you and your family are happy to live in this 'stolen land'. I think an honest look at history will reveal that our indigineous people are rather fortunate it was the English to settle rather than some others.

Rainier and C.J. Morgan are right about the fact that some of our politicians, other religious nutters and some Islamophobes on OLO have said worse things than this Mufti has said.
Even the Pope was out of line with that anti-Muslim remark in his speech. (But I am sure some will find this debatable).
The media is also guilty of being biased.

BOAZ, the Mufti was totally wrong but you are quick to turn the problem into an opportunity for vilification of Islam.
I looked at your anti-Lebanese video’s and do find them horrifying, but I am sure that some filmer or media person could make just as many clips of Australians behaving badly. It’s all prejudgemental hate-spread.

The Koran makes crazy statements, but so does the Bible.

Yeah sure, Runner, I am sure that the indigenous people are wrapped about that; they're still celebrating.

Country gal,because you were born in Australia does not give you the right to Australian Citizenship.
Children of diplomats,illegal overstayers,etc.
You are born to a tourist visiting Australia.I
In Germany you are not treated as a German national even if your parents live in the country on a work visa,and you were born in Germany.
The Mufti is stating fact that convict descendants arrived centuries after Muslim traders and sailors from the Middle East and Indonesia visited Australian shores.
What a difference education and understanding make to the debate.
Convicts were transported from Britain to Australia because they were rogues who stole handkerchieves and horses.
Todays equivalents,Burglary,and car stealing.A Horse by todays standards would be a luxury car.
In eighteen century Europe nobody but scum would steal.The ten commardments were the LAW.People did not have to lock their horses or homes.
Take up reading history of the world, not about the Ned Kelly Gang,and then presume that you are a professor of history.

RUTAGER,

No disrespect for your grandad but my grandads and grand mums were fighing on this land for (this country) well before WW1.

But these are wars you would know jack about. This land was not peacefully settled! Read some real Australian history maaate!

My point is that we didn't die off (as it was popular desired and required) and you fellas didn't go home - and nor will Muslims - so its time all of your matured you perspectives about race and religious relations.

Boaz, your toxic intolerance is a disgrace for someone who professes to follow the teachings of JC.

The frenzy of bigotry here is unproductive and primitive.

And for the historical record many Muslim families were here well before the post war migration and well before many of your own forefathers/mothers landed here on a plane or ship. And actually if you want to go back further in history their trade relationships with Indigenous peoples in the north - Macasans etcetera - was happenning well before the union jack declared this land stolen in the name of King and Queens in Britain.

So this whole line of discussion about the Mufti saying this or that needs to be put in a broader historical and discursive context.

- Its interesting to note that we have not yet been provided with a literal translation of the whole interview so that everyone understands the context in which the Mufti made those claims.

Unless you all have undying trust in the Murdoch media?

Brock

18th century europe had no welfare system either is it a fair comparison

Australians have not scrawled hate filled messages on placards calling for beheadings.
We have not gone into the streets burning things, we do not intend to.
You may if it pleases you call us bigots but its not true our outrage is shared by most from the non Lebanese Muslim comunity.
And you may hide this problem under a heap of taunts and false racist slings but it remains a problem for both most Australians and most Muslims.
And has that poster any idea at all what was so offensive in the popes speach?
No caltholic and no admirer of that church but its book burning to say he must not quote from things some want to hide.

i believe that everyone has a right to live in Australia equally.

This Mufti guy sounds like he hates Australia, if this is so he should just leave.
He is always putting people down or saying something outrages and wrong, he should just keep his mouth shut.

The only people I think who deserve to live here more then others are the people who are born here but that still doesn’t mean that others who come here shouldn’t become our equal.

The government need to do something about him. I believe in freedom of speech but there is a limit I should think.

rizz

The Government wont do anything due to the loss of votes that would occur.
This would also tell you what the government actually thinks of Australians.

For myself well i would show him the door.

Rainier - what the aborigines have and haven't got. Do you think any of the true australians (meaning people that were here before 1945 and their descendants and actually built the place)ancestors from the 19th century WANTED TO BE IN AUSTRALIA? How many Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Cornish came to australia through religious, political and economic persecution? Australia might have heaps of poms and their kids and grand kids now but it wasn't like that in the 19th century. The engoish only ever formed a small ruling class with the Scottish as the managers and the Irish as the labour force. None of these people would have voluntarily undertaken an 18 month voyage if they didn't have to. I suggest if aborigines have a problem with white Australians they take it up with the English. As for the mufti he is the logical end of multiculturalism. Maybe he is pissed that all the immigrants priced him out of a house and forced wages down?

I would like to make an apology to all those who have emailed me and have not had a reply.

I get a bit of spam and if the email doesnt have a to tapp or whatever on the top it is normally deleted so if you havent recieved a reply from me now could you resend please.

You could be right there magic jess

also multiculturism has been a failure it is time we fixed this mess where other party's winge and whine its time for real action with a real party.
Like the labor party Yes to the removal of AWA's no they have done a backflip.

I take my word seriously you want real solutions give it to me
You want it fixed its about time.

Email: swulrich@bigpond.net.au

Boaz_David,
I had a look at that site you suggested and it looks to me that you have the same Leb Muslim problem in Melbourne as we have in Sydney.

Fellow Human informed me that the Arabic Muslims were the main ones with anti-social behaviour and disrespect for women, and I have no reason to doubt this. I think they are the decendants of those Fraser let in from Lebanon against dept. advise.

I note that it is not just Arabic Muslims that cause problems in other nations and here also at times.

Seems most people are saying that the Mad Muftis views, and those of Sheik Feiz Mohammed and the fat Sheik in Melbourne, are extreme. I do not think so, I think their views are closer to mainstream muslim thinking. This garbage is taught to their kids, which is reflected in the young muslim blokes that posted on the website you suggested.

So if Australia does end up with a new Mufti, he may think the sane things as Hilali, but be more guarded in what he says and we will not benefit at all. These Sheiks are the leaders and teachers.

I live too far from Sydney to get involved in anything there. Despite what others may wish, we cannot deport those that are citizens. We can only try to integrate them which may take more generations. Of course the Gov. can stop importing those considered undesirable.

Sorry life isnt fair or just,

The ones controling the army, the anglo saxons are at present in control of this country. This country was taken at the point of a gun and like all countries is held at the point of a gun (or those in control of the army).

Regardless of muslims being here from way back it was the British army who came out here in ships and using slave convict labour built the first villages and towns (colonies).

If you cant hold a country by arms or numbers then prepare to lose it.
Armed rebels or conquerors dont take any notice of law courts so dont rely on justice to keep your land or country.

Its the same in the animal world those with the muscle hold the territory.

Audrey Apple said: "I find it ironic that most of you are banging on about our inalienable right to this country over the 'invading' Muslims - yet noone has acknowledged the Aboriginals we stole it from."

Audrey, the modern nation of Australia was founded by European settlers, not Aboriginals. It was the blood, sweat, and tears of the early Anglo-Celtic pioneers that laid the foundations for this nation's modern prosperity. I'm not Anglo-Celtic, yet even I recognize this. I don't see why the founders of this nation should have to bow and scrape to an implacable minority consisting only 2% of the total population. In reality, the colonisation of Australia was inevitable. If not by the British, then by somebody else. How well do you think the Aboriginals would have fared under the French? The Spanish? The Japanese? The Javanese?

Nation simply don't build themselves. Rather, nations are a product of their people. Australia's position as one of the world's prosperous nations, as opposed to other colonial creations such as Argentina, is testament to the tenacity and industriousness of the Australian people. The Sheik would be well-advised to take heed of this before he sprouts off about some fallacious sense of Muslim entitlement.

Lets stop that rubbish about a stolen land its junk mail to say the least.
My family is full of our first Australians and for the most part they just claim to be Australians.
A few very badly informed people fail to remember every country in the world has been invaded and we all are a mixture of different races.
We are what we make of ourselfs and over 200 years is enought time to make something other than failure and recrimination for actions of long dead peope as a life.
That multi culturism is a comibation of two cultures not the distrution of ours.
Mufti has a defence he is quite mad.

OK my turn to throw in my bob's worth.

Some of you know from my earlier postings that some of my ancestors were inducted into Aboriginality, spoke a few Koori languages and defended them again persecution in western Victoria. They too were isolated by colonial Australians.

They did, however, keep their Quaker religion and never spoke to the Aboriginal people about it, they were not missionaries or evangalicals. They were so close to treason in earlier Victorian history that the Aboriginal elders ordered them to retreat, and protected them from an unfair situation or undue drama.

In the family archives and the family Bible, the deaths, persecutors and squatters that murdered Aboriginal people are listed. As Quakers, they wrote reports for family reference in detail, but it confidentiality. They never had reason to trust the Government of the time. It is under Aboriginal legal custody and I am not at liberty to disclose which one.

Besides this, nowhere did the archives make offensive statements against common ancestry, to Australian convicts, or even the idea of colonialism itself. It just listed specific injustices and prejudices.

We are also descendants from the convicts. Quakers sometimes were transported as convicts for bogus offences, as an indirect religious persecution at the time. So what does that make us?

High time for all descendants of all convicts, the genealogical societies, and even tourist partners, to launch a lawsuit against Taj Al Hilali. How dare he belittle our ancestors! Such arrogance and ignorance to assume that they were all "bad people".

Yes indeed, more Australian history please, immediately!

He said sorry to women and got away with it. Now he says sorry to his defamatory statement to Australians with older ancestry putting us in disrepute. What does he think of the Jolly Swagman and Waltzing Matilda? His thugs just don't get it.

John Howard refuses to say sorry to Aborigines simply because he knows that the word in our system carries legal responsibilities. Now Taj Al Hilali says sorry to often, and needs to take responsibility with a legal challenge, not Government persecution. He admits that he was wrong. Some of us have families offended by these remarks. We have a legal right to legally sue him for putting our ancestors in disrepute.

While it is true our race is full of such storeys we get a little of thread ,me too in not looking at the reasons for our outrage at this madness.
Do not for a second forget this man is bent on his warlike path, that far too many in the Muslim world are indeed wanting to remove us from our culture.
However I can only hope events about to unfold will put someone in place that understands such talk halms the moderate Muslims as much as me.
Next time however you see a march calling for the beheading of non Muslims weight the aledged crime of those people and those of this enemy of multi cuturism and his suporters.
I continue to want answers to questions like, why is Australia and the western world not asking can we live together?

Characters like the Mufti are not unique to the Muslim community. Neither is the contrast between violent protest (including murder) in response to a line in the Pope's speech or a cartoon in a Danish newspaper, and the indifference to very regular antisemitic press articles, cartoons, and even "Holocaust never happened" conferences, attended by nutter historians with matchstick models to prove their theories. Obviously the intolerence is in response to unjust treatment, real or perceived. I think that there needs to be more discussion of the motivations for the Mufti to encourage hatred, rather than his pot stirring comments.

As I predicted, it seems that the mad mufti's latest loony effort has prompted some strong responses from more sane Australian Muslims:

"Sheik Hilaly like Hitler, says Muslim leader"

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sheik-hilaly-like-hitler-says-muslim-leader/2007/01/15/1168709645952.html

Those that wish to deport the mufti should think again.
While he is there we hear the muslim attitude.
Deport him and we will get someone clever enough to hide the attitude.
Then we will not know what is going on. The present fool is doing us a favour.

If he is naturalised he might be lieble to cancellation if it can be shown that he made a false oath.

The mufti needs to face charges of Racial Vilification in court.

Great discussion everyone, real progress being made. Reminds me of an episode of south park...

Person 1
"Well, I do support freedom of speech. On the other hand, the flag is racist.."

Person 2
"Well, it is racist. But then there's freedom of speech."

Person 3
"I. Think. It. Is. Racist. I. Think. It. Is. Freedom. Of. Speech."

I just want to ask...is Sheik Halali a 'bad apple' or is he representative of his people? There seem to be so many of them ready to spring to his defence. And then, in reality, what really can be done about his continuing racial and gender intolerance? A different political party is not going to fix the problem. I agree that his comments border on the insane, in line with those that believe the Holocaust is merely a figment of the world's imagination. But the only thing that can be done to counteract it is really only public rational debate and discussion.
arcticdog

Arcticdog,
I don't consider Sheik Al Hilali extreme. He represents the mainstream muslims.

Last friday, on this thread, Boaz-David Posted a link. Have a look at that and not only the video but the postings of the young muslims and you will see what they say about Australians.

I see the Serbs and the Croats were at it again today, at the tennis.

Multiculture in action. Yep, multiculture is great and all cultures get along just fine. Last time these ethnic groups got together at a soccer match, in Sydney, the torched cars and fired guns at buildings, and smashed all the windows of a bus. Lovely people?

They are 2nd or 3rd generation born here, and their kids are taught the same, just like the muslim kids.

Did Howard appoint Hilaly to the Muslim’s religious body? If so, then Howard shouldn’t have to ask the Australian Muslims to take action- he should.

I’d love to see a complete, independent translation of what Hilaly said- all I have found is edited transcripts. Can we trust the media to have presented the facts in an unbiased manner and in context?

Arcticdog, good question: what needs to be done?
It’s obvious that there need to be some changes or things will remain as they are.

Thoroughly knowing all text in the Koran should not anymore qualify a Mufti or Imam to guide and educate followers of Islam.
It’s insufficient- the Koran’s history needs to be taken into context; there needs to be the realisation that ‘times, they are a-changing’.

The trouble with religions is that they are stagnant and immobile. (Fundamental) Religions usually are not about finding the truth; they are more about accepting and covering up outdated data, myths, dreams and legends.

Perhaps we can brainstorm or make suggestions to what should change:

1. Future Mufti’s and Imams will be required to study the subject of ‘Western history and Philosophy’ along with Islamic studies to be able to qualify for the position. They are very influential and so they should understand the culture where they preach. Only then they will be able to take what they teach into context of THIS era and this society (not the 7th era in some Arabic country).

2. Australian government is to offer this study packet at Universities in major cities.

3. Mufti’s and imams must have lived and worked in Australia for at least 5 years to be appointed so they can be reasonably familiar within the Australian multi culture society, democracy, and this modern era.

Any other suggestions?
Having made these suggestions, in no way do I say that Christian religions are perfect :)
PS
Banjo, I dare say that the British have a history of being the world’s worst hooligans when it comes to sport, especially soccer.

Oh Dear, arn't you all in a funk ? Just cause some twit made some stupid comments ?
I've read all the comments here and it strikes me with the exception of just one or two, the rest have simply been unable to see the wood for the trees.
Firstly, yes, it's 100% correct, the white man stole this country from the aboriginal. No argument there.
Secondly, the poor bloody convicts had a say in coming here did they ?
Now what does that say of the old Mufti's knowledge of Australian history and more importantly, the U.K.'s ?
Thirdly, the good old labour party and more specificaly that wondeful guy all Australians love, Mr Hawk, were the ones who allowed this immigration act to let these guys in the first place.
Fourth, how come, Australia's deputy Sherrif has done nothing about the issue ? In fact it would appear, this little weasel is using the issue to gain political mileage for himself against Muslims all under the aspices of Terrorism. He's very happy the old Sheik is spoutin his mouth off, doing him a big favour in fact. Hmm, I wonder, whether these two are in cahoots ?
Fifth, dunno whether many posters here have noticed, but lately there are more then a few Black people arriving within our communities.
Black like in Ethiopia/Somalia ect, ect.
Now I wonder which party is in power right now that is allowing this ?
Give you one guess.
I'd love someone to convince me, these good folk are going to integrate into our community seamlessly.
Specially when we alreadyhave many reports coming in of our Indigenous inhabitants objecting most strongly against these interlopers.

So we stole it from the blacks? and you are concerned that the blacks are stealing it from the blacks?
Some deep investigation of the subject would show you SOME Muslims intend to take it from us all!
How can you write as you do yet be little concerns about a comunity leader who thinks like this insane bigot?
Remember he is a comunity leader how else would you have us think?
Multi culturism can work, but biggotry has to be highlighted on both sides.

It may be of interest to see how Islamic media and schoolbooks portray non-Muslims. I hope that things are different in Australia.

http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/arab_media_portrayal_jews.htm

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf15.html

If these are true accounts of what passes for education in these countries then it would explain why the hatred is so intense.

Christians against Muslims and Muslims against Christians, the old story is replenished again! Can anyone see by connecting the dots, that this is just part of the "Worldorder" play-out?
Generally what happens next is a b#$%^&g, firearms-control, war etc.
Shi$sturring is what I call it. Multicultural does not work anyway,whoever believes in it ,is supporting the worldorder scheme.
Australian aboriginals should be cherished and supported,not with money directly but by understanding their plight with survival.We are treating apes and monkeys better than human folks and that is a shame.

I love the Mufti. He is not a coward like "so-called" moderate muslims who dont reveal their thoughts.

A few points.

(1) A few of the Australians have convict ancestry. There's no dount about it. That's true. Does that make the descendants immoral?

(2) Some sad buffoons loath about the colonialism. They say we stole the aborigines land blah.. Perhaps they have to read the history at that time. Almost each and every country was stolen by various tribes, people.

Note: These buffoons never point to the land stolen/invaded by Islamic invaders or Hindu kings. But they got a problem with specific people like Anglo-saxons etc.

(3) The Mufti is correct in saying that few of the Australians have convict heritage. But, the mufti fails to realise that all muslims adore a Paedophile and a mass-murderer and hail him as the "Most Perfect" man on the planet earth

White privilege explores its own scrotum again and again and again...and the recurring verdict is that it still smells like roses. Just ask em!

It is sad that some so far removed from reality must use this thread to offer strange views about our first Australians.
Nothing to do with the thread or truth but if nothing else it shows they have no real idea of that seperate problem.
Another poster with some support tells us this is a sure sign Australians are racist not wanting to hear this rabbit speak.
Well moderate Muslims need to unseat the idiot and make an effort to undo the damage.
In my honestly held view they are up against it and in time a world war will be fought over such as this idiot.
Australias not haveing marched up and down in the streets proves a cultural deference between his and our worlds.

There are some hints of serious truth emanating here.

One thing is clear from my own experience of this past week, which I'd like to share.

1/ There are people on this forum who, though 'kind and generous and polite' on the outside, have been monitoring my posts for over 2 yrs, and have been tracking them for information as to my identity and whereabouts.
2/ Those same people, when they obtain a hint of 'gotcha' suddenly morph into monsters beyond belief. All the politeness, the kind peaceful words etc.. dissappear and the rage and anger and violence and yes, murderous intent are clearly visible in the words posted to my web sites.
3/ I've been called 'hiding under a rock' etc.. so..for the record:
ANYONE WANTING TO MEET ME PERSONALLY, and discuss issues about Islam etc, or my views on it, can indicate so (via the web sites or here) and they will see me in living color before their eyes, at a mutually agreed place and time.

MY DREAM. (among others) is to see the Mufti and Kaysar Trad asked this question

"Mufti, why does the Koran CURSE Christians and Jews, and do you support that cursing now ?" (SURAH 9:30)

"Kaysar, would you like to explain how 'Allahs curse be on them' from the Quran AND the hadith recording the last words of MOhammed on his death bed is 'taking out of context'" ?

"Mufti and Kaysar. If some Christians stood outside Lakemba Mosque with large signs 'GOD CURSES MUSLIMS' what do you think the reaction would be" ?

"Mufti and Kaysar, don't you think that to CURSE another religion by name is tantamount to RELIGIOUS VILIFICATION"?

JOURNALISTS ! why not give it a try ?

Celivia,
I am told the Poms have controled the soccer hooligans of a few years ago. I hope so, but that is their business. I haven't seen any Pom hooliganism here, and if there is they should be fined heavily,visas taken and booted out,never to return. The same for any visitors. The "barmy army" are eccentric but their team support is done in good humour, as far as I can see.

The Croats and Serbs have nothing but blind hatred for each other and simply want to fight. I bet those at the tennis wouldn't know what a double fault was. The are not interested in tennis, it is just their excuse for one lot to bait the other. It is sad to see their kids being raised with all that hatred. We should not compound the issue by allowing more to come in.

I want the mad mufti to stay here. He gives us an insight into muslim thinking and their teachings. I have no aminosity towards muslims. I am dissapointed that they, particularly the Lebs, have anti-social and anti-female attitude that prevents them being part of our wider community. Dissapointing because we opened our arms to them and give all migrants safety and the opportunities of our prosperity. Ultimately, we may have to curtail immigration from countries from which people cannot fit into our multi-racial population.

Again, our Government has to ensure we have a cohesive society and if that means stoping migration of those that will not be part of our community, then so be it.

It is obvious from the actions of the 2nd and 3rd generations that their attitudes are cultural and being taught from early childhood.

This is unacceptable.

I recall reading of the dark days of the Spanish Inquisition.

Terrible days.

People forced to either show fealty to a particular religion or death.

From what I here this piece of garbage is suggesting similar for Australia.

Suggesting Australians are less entitled to be here in Australia than Muslims migrants.

Making demands for Sharia law.

Vilifying women because they do not conform to his medieval dress code.

Yep, it sounds like the thin end of a Muslim inquisition in the making.

Banjo, I usually agree with the majority of your posts since I see most of what you write supports freedom of expression and individual sovereignty.

I would normally support you now, let this moron speak and from his own mouth may he condemn himself. However, I will break with those values for one reason. If we have opportunity to remove this piece of hypocritical fly poo we should. Whilst he is insignificant and impotent he is not worthy to pollute an Australian sewerage system.

He wants what he could only achieve by civil war.

Better he goes to where like minds can destroy one another than remain here to preach his evil stupidity to impressionable Australians of Muslim faith.

Be someone a Christian, Jew or Muslim, let them all respect and be tolerant first of others to follow their God in a manner of their own choosing. No Inquisitions ever again, be they Catholic or Muslim.

Over night we have seen more than one mad mufti exists.
Will we get evedence our goverment has the back bone to act against this latest act of hatred?
BD you I and every one is targetted at times just for haveing opinions.
We however should not confer sainthood on ourselfs because of it.
And in time it will be proved the good will of the Australian people must be matched by the other side if we are not to fail , multi culturism appears to be in trouble .
Not with all who come here but one secion needs to get its act together.

For a start hes not the Muslim leader of Australia. AFIC Australian Federation of Islamic Council and councils are considered the Muslim Leaders by Government.
Seondly The Government will ponder to kick him out may be used against them. In other words will it only bring more unrest to do so?

This lot have never acknowledged AFIC as leaders however they are not alone. There are thirty two Islamic Councils In Australia. What does that tell you?
It tells you by average they do brings their lifes styles here. Just like overseas they fight and argue between themselves.
So do we.
There are no simple answer but there are many good people who are Muslim .
I never thought I would say this but I tend to agree with Downer.

Which reminds me mr Downer you seem to have managed to pass the buck on live animal exports despite the fact I have a letter from the Queen clearly putting it at your feet and vailes.

When I look at it like that and think of the Muslim leaders in Australia who have said clearly and publicly they oppose Live Animal exports and it is Myth! they must be sent live.

Then Mr Downer I think I prefer to perhaps exports you in the muftis place. Hes basically harmless, as you say despite upsetting and ruffling a few feathers with his silly old Islam way.

He doesnt have the blood of millions and millions of slow dying suffering animals on his hands.

Hes an old man brought up by generation in the dark ages.

Whats your excuse.

Money Power Votes ?
You tell the Australian Public

"When I look at it like that and think of the Muslim leaders in Australia who have said clearly and publicly they oppose Live Animal exports and it is Myth! they must be sent live.

Then Mr Downer I think I prefer to perhaps exports you in the muftis place. Hes basically harmless, as you say despite upsetting and ruffling a few feathers with his silly old Islam way.

He doesnt have the blood of millions and millions of slow dying suffering animals on his hands."

That's well said, Antje/PALE, thanks for the post.

Celiva
No it us I who thank you. I thank You for all the hard work and reasearch you have done in the past. The fair Go fo everybody.
Pity your not running for politics.
Its not Rocket Science and if you ask most Australian Muslims they will tell you the only thing that is stopping us Slaughtering Halal Here is The Greed of a few large companies for the trade dollar.
"Even the Mad Mufti".

If labour had one once of brains they would see its an election winner and start making arrangments to form joint farms "as policy" and abattoirs with Maylasia if they win.

All we have to do is let some trained meat works in to teach Halal Slaughter.
Then we can turn this country around again.

Thats the problem with Labour they dont have any policys.

I reckon The mad Mufti pretty much likes Aussie people but not the Government.
That kind of makes them pretty average Australians.