"I don't blame 'em either Yabby. I'd much rather die than become an animal murderer."

Said somewhat tongue in cheek Yabby and like many others on this site, I like to stir the pot sometimes lol. The original gist of your previous post was about getting people to move out of their comfort zone and move to areas of work. My take on that is why should they? Not everybody wants to kill animals for a living. Not everyone can stand the heat of outback mining jobs or the overbearing "machoness" of such places. Mind you, you'll always get people who will do anything for the right amount of money, yet look what happened to those people working in a Qld. meatworks following the introduction of workchoices! Rather than be rewarded for working in such an appalling job, the company attempted to exploit them further. I hope those very same company heads end up on life's scrapheap themselves so they can suffer like the "commoners" they tried to exploit. The reasons for people NOT wanting to move to find work can be many and varied. If they prefer to suffer the indignation of jumping through Centrelink's hoops like a trained show dog, then so be it. It can be extremely daunting to have to pack up and move away from the security of family and friends to work for sometimes very minimal pay in some godforsaken outpost, especially in these times. Oh,yes, I am interested in reading "Tradegy of Commons" and will seek out the literature.

Yabby, just read "Tragedy of the Commons" and found it a rather bleak piece of literature which holds little hope for an malcontent like myself.

Wildcat “My take on that is why should they? Not everybody wants to kill animals for a living. Not everyone can stand the heat of outback mining jobs or the overbearing "machoness" of such places””

I would agree with that.

Let those who choose not to make the effort live according to their standards.

Let them not assume any form of government assistance or support.

Let them stand on their own two feet, that they cannot afford shoes is up to them.

Let what might have been paid to them from public funds be used to pay the foster parents of their children. Obviously, the destitute (morally as well as materially) who do not participate in handling their own affairs, including supporting themselves, are in no position to care for their progeny and children should not be held responsible for the shortcomings of their parents.

Only one problem, we would have a white “stolen generation”.
So, how does a responsible society care for those who lack responsibility? Not altogether sure except, pandering to irresponsibility is not the answer and it represents the real challenge.

Ah Wildcat, you've made my point for me. Clearly there are jobs
out there, but Aussies have it so good, that many choose not to
work or to go where the jobs are.

Meantime, export $, about which brightspark worries, are being
lost because of it. Thats why I have many times mentioned that
seeing Aussies don't want these jobs, lets bring in people who
appreciate the money and work, from China, the Philipines etc.
It is ridiculous to hold up export industries, which we are
short of anyhow, because of bad ideology. Its a lose lose
situation. Next thing people are complaining about the live
export industry.

The tragedy of the commons is an economic theory, based on
what we know about human nature. What it basically implies
is that eventually we will destroy ourselves and old mother
nature will have to sort it out and thin the species out
bigtime.

Col Rouge, surely even a person as cranky as yourself towards those who won't move for the benifits of a job, couldn't be so cruel as to deny those without employment and their children enough tax payer's money to avoid starving on the streets? Haven't we as a society learned that's not the best message to send to the rest of the world....."Hey look!" "Australia starves it's dole bludgers!" "The good old US of A system isn't so bad after all!" If I had the power, I couldn't do it any more than I feel you could despite your grumpiness. It's simply not right or "human." Better to give them allowance vouchers that may only be traded for food or necesities and not for smokes or booze. I think you'd then find a whole different attitude to those who won't work, but having said that, there is still an unemployable minority out there that will always require assistance.

Yabby, if you actually believed the principles behind Tragedy of the Commons, then perhaps you wouldn't be so keen to export our abundance of goods and exportable material to countries who can't produce for themselves? If they've overpopulated themselves into a corner, let the overburdened buggers starve themselves back to sustainability. More for us producing countries then! But, I guess it's all about the money isn't it? Doesn't matter if you're a landholder or a shareholder, it's always about the money. That's why we have the big push for the export dollar.

Wildcat, I believe people, faced with acute loss of employment, should be entitled to unemployment benefit. Those people should have benefits especially if they have children or other extended dependents to support.

However, someone accepting unemployment benefit is under a moral responsibility to mitigate their income shortfall and do everything humanly possible to get off the dole and back to supporting themselves.

Unemployment benefit is not intended to “support a life style”, it is intended to substitute for absence of a life style.

I guess, despite my trade and should I face no other choice, I would rather dig cesspits than take unemployment benefits. I might, in time, just impress the boss and get made up to foreman, where as if I stay on welfare, I have to suffer the ignominy of having to explain myself to some wet, demotivated bureaucrat who holds sway over my dignity.

As for “Australia starves its dole bludgers” well it might discourage some of those illegal immigrants who come here from India and Pakistan but throw their papers over board to better pretend to be Afghanis. Every cloud has a silver lining.

As for “there is still an unemployable minority out there that will always require assistance.”

I recognize there is always an “unemployable minority”, I could name a few I know who are not as able as others and struggle day to day. However, some receive a disability pension, some do not. The point with the “unemployable minority” who do not qualify for a disability pension is I do not expect the same people to be part of the unemployable minority tomorrow as are there today.

Oh my comment to a “white stolen generation” is the natural consequence where people who do not take responsibility for their circumstances, do not care for their children. It is not the childs fault. All efforts of support should give priority for the child, possibly at the expense of the parents. Although I would consider separation of parent and child as an absolute last resort.