While not having read "The Truth Matters" the stories above prove the adage "garbage in, garbage out".

I wonder about the value of stastics when such manipulation takes place. I for one take little or no interest in stats unless they're substanciated by scientific mathod. Then still they're viewed with suspicion!
Is this to be viewed as cynical?
I'm cynical fluff

runner I am not a victim, I grew up and establish a career when under a competent government, the Menzies Mckeon government, things were much then better they are now, for example my house cost 4 years of my salary, (now 10 equivalent salaries). Then, this country was paying its own way. The victims are the young people of today, who will be the first to be less well off than their parents. Unwanted victim status also falls on the many people who are underemployed and unemployed. These are quite visible if you look at “the faces in the street” as suggested by Henry Lawson in a similar period over one hundred years ago. Also leigh at this time we were a “smart country” for example we were the third country in the world to launch a satellite (wresat) from our own territory in Woomera South Australia.

Why do things seem so good now? Two main reasons, firstly advances in technology which have bought us cheap low cost and new products. And these were developed outside the influence of “free trade” in the highly protected and skilled economies of the US, Europe, Japan, China and India. The second reason is an unlimited line of credit to pay for goods produced by slave labour in China and third world countries such as Burma.

Billie you raise some very good points which have their roots in the same place the “free trade" notion perhaps we need another thread.

Fluff, very good point but these people use the garbage to make important decisions!

We are now living in a welfare state where the welfare is bestowed on the corporations, is this a form of socialism?

I think there are huge regional differences here, but it seems
people are unhappy, if they can't find a job a few minutes from
where they live.

In WA you virtually have full employment. Vacancies are everywhere,
its back to the little signs hanging out on store fronts, screaming
for workers. The 3% left on the stat books would include the ice
addicts and other simply unemployables. Our welfare system these
days effectively makes working optional.

I used to employ a whole bunch of housewives and many of those in
fact don't want full time work, they want a part time job which
fits in around their kids. That was easily achieved by letting
them decide on their own rosters, as long as the work was done on
time, was all that mattered to me. Amazing how good they were
at organising that between themselves, to create a win-win situation
for all.

Yup, corporations turn to labour hire companies for good reasons.
Once somebody is permanent on the books, all sorts of problems arise.
Its hard to fire them if they are useless, orders might quieten down
from customers, no point paying people to stand around and pick
their noses etc, that costs other consumers and margins are such
today in business, that that is only possible in Government
employment, where picking your nose at Govt expense is still pretty
common. Taxpayers will keep coughing up, after all, consumers
have no choice.

How to do we get people to move to where there is work, rather then
where they happen to want to live, because of family, friends etc?
I dunno. Bring in foreign workers is my answer, if Aussies clearly
don't want the jobs.

Scotty said: "When you think about how many people are doing voluntary,casual or part time work coupled with single parents the real figure in context must be at 15% or higher."

I once recall the tricksy Mr. Howard pointing to labour market deregulation as the key to lower unemployment by using Australia and Germany as the definitive comparison. According to the PM, Germany has higher unemployment than Australia because it has more labour market regulation. However, the folks at Crikey exposed Howard's fallacious assertions by noting that in Australia you are deemed to be employed if you work a mere one hour in the survey week, whilst in Germany you are considered unemployed if you work less than 15. Unsuprisingly, if Australia used the German benchmark, our unemployment rate would be only marginally less than Germany's.

Runner said: "I know that their are a lot of Howard haters on this forum but at least give him some credit (it does not mean you have to like him)"

Credit for what exactly? A tax system which heavily favours debt-intensive investment housing? A blowout in foreign debt without any increased export capacity to service those liabilities? A shrinking manufacturing sector? Some of the highest interest rates in the Western world?

Ooopps, silly me, I forgot Mr. Howard only takes credit for good things, like China's industrialisation in combination with Western Australia's geology and geography.

Record unemployment?
My understanding of unemployed is underemployed.
To-day in Australia we have an army of benefit paid unemployee by the Federal and State Governments.
Go to any Hospital,Tafe College,or Local Council and see the army of people who are WORKING for the dole.
These unfortunate people are called employed but are only unemployed
having to improve their SKILLS in some government run scheme to make the figures look wonderful.
There are country towns all around Australia that have Employment Providers who cannot find meaningful jobs and seem to spend there whole week giving people jobs on government benefit schemes.
Example Single Mum with two teen age children.
Forced to work over the Xmas Holidays in local hospital for no extra benefit just the single mums wage.
The children have to stay at home or walk the streets getting into trouble.
The following year the Local Police ask for extra manpower to control the kids. What sort of society that needs an army of security staff to control a country with record employment?