I'm so grateful to you all for the opinions
expressed on this thread. They're insightful,
honest, and I'm gaining a great deal from them.

I think our understanding of death and dying has
been greatly increased by the pioneering work of
Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, who conducted extensive
interviews with dying people. She suggested that
there are five stages through which a terminally
ill person often proceeds after learning the truth.

The first is denial - "It can't be happening to me."
The second is anger - "Why me?"
The third is bargaining - the implicit agreement to
go willingly if God or fate will just allow the
dying person to live a little longer, perhaps until
some significant event such as a family wedding.
The fourth stage is depression - a state of deep
anxiety over the loss of self and the loss of one's
family. And the final stage is acceptance, in which
the dying person approaches death with a true peace
of mind.

I haven't had much experience with any of this - although
I've seen some very healthy and accepting attitudes
towards death in old-age homes and other places where
the elderly live together.

I trust that when my turn comes - I shall approach things
with a true peace of mind - and to be honest, for me
my religion will be a part and parcel of my peace of mind -
Why? Because it gives me solace. But as I've said before -
that's just me - and I wouldn't presume to tell other what's
right for them.

A J Phillips, "But it is not my responsibility or anyone else’s to continually add exceptions to everything we say if moderate Christians are still wilfully choosing to worship under the same name as the fundamentalists. Nor is it fair that myself or others cop any subtle suggestions that we may lack humility because of this."

It is completely up to you if you want to lump everyone in together and tar them with the one brush. No-one asked you to 'cop' anything.

You are OK and they are not OK - yep, got that, have a nice day.

Cornflower,

I am not tarring everyone with the same brush. All I’m saying is that I’m not going to continually put an exception to everyone of my criticisms to avoid the holier-than-thou amongst us displaying how righteous they in raising the obvious point that not all Christians are the same.

So no sorry, Cornflower, it is not up to me or anyone else as it is the moderate Christians who make the conscious decision to keep the label.

I've just received an email from a friend with
a joke that I thought is rather topical:

While walking down the street one day a Member
of Parliament is tragically hit by a truck and dies.

His soul arrives in Heaven and is met by St Peter
at the Pearly Gates.

"Welcome to Heaven," says St Peter. "Before you
settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom
see a high official around these parts, you see,
so we're not sure what to do with you."

"No problem, just let me in," says the MP.

"Well, I'd like to but I have orders from higher up.
What we'll do is have you spend one day in Hell and one
in Heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity."

"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in Heaven,"
says the MP.

"I'm sorry, but we have our rules."

And with that, St Peter escorts the MP to the elevator
and the man goes down, down, down to Hell. The doors open
and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course.
In the distance is a Clubhouse and standing in front of it
are many of his friends and other politicians who had
worked with him.

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to
greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good
times they had.

They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster,
caviar and champagne. Also present is the devil who really
is a very friendly and nice guy who has a good time
dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good
time that before he realizes it's time to go.

Everyone gives the MP a hearty farewell and wave while
the elevator rises.

cont'd ...

cont'd ...

The elevator goes up, up, up, and the door reopens on
Heaven where St Peter is waiting for the MP.

"Now it's time to visit Heaven."

So, 24 hours pass with the MP joining a group of
contented souls moving from cloud to cloud playing
the harp and singing. They have a good time and
before he realizes it the 24 hours have gone by and
St Peter returns.

"Well, then, you've spent a day in Hell and another in
Heaven. Now choose your eternity."

The MP reflects for a minute, then he answers.

"Well, I would never have said it before, I mean Heaven
has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in
Hell."

So St Peter escorts the MP to the elevator and the MP
goes down, down, down, to Hell.

Now the doors of the elevator open and the MP finds
himself in the middle of a barren wasteland covered
with waste and garbage.

He sees all of his friends dressed in rags, picking up
trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls
from above.

The devil comes over to the MP and puts his arm around his
shoulder.

"I don't understand," stammers the MP. "Yesterday I was here
there was a golf course and a Clubhouse, and we ate lobster
and caviar and drank champagne, and danced and had a great
time. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my
friends look miserable."

The devil looks at the MP smiles and says,

"Yesterday we were campaigning."

"Today you voted."

A J Phillips

So according to you the moderate mainstream of Christianity should find another label to worship under and dump the bible?

Moderate Muslims should find another label to worship under and dump the Koran?

Moderate Australians should find another label and dump their constitution, laws, parliament, country or what?

All so you don't have to make 'exceptions' in your stereotyping of others. You beaut, consider it done and go you good thing!