Yeah, I know what you mean, Pericles. I thought of the fact that it wouldn’t matter because you would simply cease to exists in all consciousness anyway, and I probably did put too much of an emphasis on those “last few moments” that we are unlikely to be aware are our last anyway.

My main point is that the truth of my beliefs is something that is very important to me (and I think should be to anyone). Even though it won’t matter after I’m gone, the fact that I did all I could have to ensure that my beliefs were as true as they possibly could have been is something that will make me die a happy person, and this is value that seems to be absent in all religious believers.

I guess I just get frustrated at the thought of people not appreciating just how infinitesimally shorter our lives are than the eternity they think they’ve got. Particularly since I have an ill and aging parent on the other side of the world who appears to be in no rush to spend myself or my siblings because he’s totally convinced that we’ll be re-united in paradise anyway.

This kind of goes back to my lottery analogy of religious belief making someone happy, meaning that if I convince myself that I’ve won the lottery, that might make me feel happy, but if I start living life as though I really had won the lottery, then that happiness can act as a negative force.

Of course, living one’s life is very different to the last few moments I was talking about and that you responded to, but just so you know where I’m coming from...

AJ Phillips,
With self justification statements like this you are totally ignorant of others intelligent positions; "after I’m gone, the fact that I did all I could have to ensure that my beliefs were as true as they possibly could have been is something that will make me die a happy person, and this is value that seems to be absent in all religious believers."

What is the value and purpose of your life once you are dead? There is still a sense of hope beyond your death, creeping through in these vain words. In your own religious view there is no hope no future, stop kidding yourself.

Religion is what you believe with a passion that governs your life, it does not have to be theistic or formally recognised by the State.

Tests have been done on the brain of people who passionately believe in the afterlife and there is a strong positive electromagnetic field surrounding them, while persons without hope of any future radiate a strong negative field.

Dear Severin,

You made my spirit soar.
Thank You.

We seem to be living in meanspirited times.
People instinctively attack. There's often
more criticism leveled against success than
failure, more suspicion of excellence than
of mediocrity. You've always provided a
support system for many of us here on OLO,
even though I know that you've had your own
problems to deal with. Yet you were always
there on hand to lend the resources of kindness
and strength to help us back up.

I feel privileged to count you as a friend.

Dear AJ Philips,

Each of us has to find our own way of dealing
with things. For me - it's hope - for you it's
truth. May both of us find comfort in our
beliefs.

Dear Pericles,

Beautifully expressed - as always.
To each his own.

Dear Philo,

Marianne Williamson wrote,
"No conventional therapy can release us from
a deep and abiding psychic pain.
Through prayer we find what we cannot find
elsewhere: a peace that is not of this
world. Praying for someone is a gracious act.
It gives blessing to the one who prays,
as well to the person who is prayed for."

Oh gawd, here we go!

I long for the day when a rational point can be made and it isn’t met with some hot-head reaction.

Philo,

<<With self justification statements like this you are totally ignorant of others intelligent positions>>

And what intelligent positions would they be? Near death experiences? Miracle healings that co-incidentally can’t be extend to amputees? Special revelations that somehow aren’t afforded to all? Ridiculous ontological arguments that fall down at their premises?

<<What is the value and purpose of your life once you are dead?>>

Once I’m dead? Other than the legacy I leave with those whose lives I’ve touched, probably not much. Why?

<<There is still a sense of hope beyond your death, creeping through in these vain words.>>

Vein or not, it’s my observation. No one who cares about the truth of their beliefs adopts a belief for which there is absolutely no evidence.

It’s that simple.

<<In your own religious view there is no hope no future, stop kidding yourself.>>

This is the classic arrogance of the religious, many of whom seem to that that you need an afterlife promise and an invisible friend for any sort of meaning in life.

And what was I kidding myself about anyway?

<<Religion is what you believe with a passion that governs your life, it does not have to be theistic...>>

I suggest you look the meaning of the word “religion”... http://tinyurl.com/cfuk3t

It’s interesting how the religious so often have to downgrade everything to a “religion”. As if their minds were incapable of seeing anything in a different context.

<<Tests have been done on the brain of people who passionately believe in the afterlife and there is a strong positive electromagnetic field surrounding them, while persons without hope of any future radiate a strong negative field.>>

I don’t doubt that for a second. But what’s that got to do with the truth of the matter?

If I have terminal cancer and the doctor lies to me and tells me I’m fine, that’s going to make me feel good, but that doesn’t mean it’s true.

Yes, that's a good way of putting it, Foxy...

<<Each of us has to find our own way of dealing with things. For me - it's hope - for you it's truth.>>

I maintain my beliefs, or lack of beliefs no matter how much I may not like them. For example, it's easy to say that death will be just like before we were born, but the difference will be that unlike before we were born, death will be permanent and eternal.

This, to me, is the most unnerving aspect of reality, but I’ll continue to believe this to be the case - regardless of how much I hate the idea - until reliable evidence to the contrary arises.

But to cope with this unsettling reality, I simply remind myself of the infinitely large amount of people who will never get to die because they will never be born at all.

Put in this context, we will never truly grasp just how unbelievably lucky each one of us really is.

Dear AJ Philips,

I watched my step father die.

He was such a passionate and determined man,
and unfortunately he was dealt a miserable
blow by suffering a series of strokes which
left him partially paralysed down one side -
and he lost the power of speech - the power
to communicate. He was forced finally into
a nursing home, where after a few years he decided
he'd had enough - and refused all food and medication.
Watching him deteriorate was dreadful.

He was not a religious man, however, mum called
for a priest to give him his last rites. Pop accepted
Communion - and the last rites - and died peacefully.
I'm not sure how much comfort he got from all this -
but I do know that he seemed at peace when he passed
away.

I think that whatever brings a person comfort - can't
be bad. And each of us finds comfort in our own way.
My way may not be right for others - but I can only
do what's right for me. As can you for you.

Anyway, let's hope that we both live a long, long, life
yet! :-)