Spendocrat Im glad you brought that up because I found you are right that the Vatican has rejected Intelligent design as science as this link confirms.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/18/ap/world/mainD8F7BDS03.shtml

Problematic is assertions that the vatican embraces Intelligent Design such as this link reports http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1859760,00.html

For every bible-bashing creationist diligently reading the young-earth piffle at AnswersInGenesis, there is a rabid, supercilious Darwinist scouring Talkorigins for a point by point "Idiot's Guide to Defending Darwin". Spendocrat is a germane example of the latter. His first post in this thread was to defend the absolute, incontrovertible truth of naturalistic Darwinism. To scrutinize the neo-Darwinian narrative of life was not only anti-scientific but downright ridiculous, he proclaimed. According to spendocrat, Darwinistic evolution must be true ("A fact! A fact!") because the evidence is so overwhelming than even blind Freddy can observe it. Yet, when probed a little further, he felt the need to copy and past large chunks from the apostles of atheism at Talkorigins in an attempt to demonstrate something that is, apparently, pervasively obvious.

Irreducible complexity is allegedly nonsense because talkorigins says so. No need for Darwinists to identify a biochemical pathway that can account for irreducibly complex mechanisms. Just like there was no need to sufficiently explain other evolutionary enigmas such as the existence of fully-formed fossils in the Cambrian era with no evolutionary ancestry. Spendocrat's intellectually inept retort that "no new information" is ever required for evolution to occur, "just rearranging" (from microbe to man based on zero genetic information gain...mmmm) is especially noteworthy.

As William Dembski wrote:

"The fact is that for complex systems like the bacterial flagellum no biologist has or is anywhere close to reconstructing its history in Darwinian terms. Is Darwinian theory therefore falsified? Hardly. I have yet to witness one committed Darwinist concede that any feature of nature might even in principle provide countervailing evidence to Darwinism. In place of such a concession one is instead always treated to an admission of ignorance. Thus it's not that Darwinism has been falsified or disconfirmed, but that we simply don't know enough about the biological system in question and its historical context to determine how the Darwinian mechanism might have produced it."

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/dembski/docs/bd-testable.html

Oligarch you are asserting that you do not know enough of evolutionary principles and nature is too complex for you to understand it.

I discount intelligent design not because of its testability. Intelligent design is testable all one needs to do is check wether the claimant of Intelligent Design has proof of god and magic. If they do not obviously Intelligent design is a constructed lie for the purpose of deceit. In this way every person who has claimed intelligent design has proved intelligent design is a lie constructed for the purposes of deceit.

I regard teaching intelligent design as child abuse. The fact is there is no reputable person who supports intelligent design. As a parent I can not and will not tolerate predators trying to prey on my children , to manipulate my children for the evil and disgusting perversion of using children to satisfy Intelligent Design pushers desire to pretend mindless and imature fantasies such as god exists. To all those who push intelligent design to be taught in school, go to a sex shop and buy a rubber doll. LEAVE CHILDREN ALONE!

Oligach has some good points West, I can sight several publications predating the 1950 ies, including Laboratory experiments; Important note (With out Computers,) that summaries that Evolutionary theory is that; Theory. And as far as Scientific conclusions prove such a theory to be not so scientific.
And Spendocrats assertion it is recognized within the scientific community to be a staple scientific fact, is indeed very misleading.

The Biblical writings as I have also mentioned, actually do exist within other theologies; Hinduism – Buddhist- etc (Except Islam for Obvious reasons).
It is that most people just will not bother to find out.
There are obvious translation errors- as well as over egotistical persons throughout time that saw it fit to enter some passages and alter others for propaganda purposes;
Just as our Proletariat Lobotomized today like inventing history- Re writing the language and carry on in a manor fit for Rubber room type enclosure. Out right Nut jobs.

I would be more worried West with all the indoctrination by the Useless Idiot incorporated within the education system now, and frankly compared to some of the total manure espoused by these morons; ID theory rates as a cartoon in comparison.
Priority is the key.

Like it or not, Judaic/ Christian with a touch of Hellinism and principles are why we are here today as we are, you do not have to believe in God to accept that as a Basic fact. And all the propaganda in the world can not ever change It.; as much as the Proletariat Lobotomized will try.

West said: "Oligarch you are asserting that you do not know enough of evolutionary principles and nature is too complex for you to understand it."

Stop using strawmen to misrepresent my position. It's silly. And so is dogmatically accepting a Darwinian "just-so story" (Stephen Jay Gould's words) without any demonstrable mechanisms for microbe to man. Furthermore, ruling out intelligent design a priori, irrespective of the evidence, on the grounds that it does not comply with a purely naturalistic explanation of life is inherently unscientific. Let biology speak for itself.

West said: "I discount intelligent design not because of its testability. Intelligent design is testable all one needs to do is check wether the claimant of Intelligent Design has proof of god and magic."

Again, I refer to the link I posted earlier.

"Is intelligent design falsifiable? Is Darwinism falsifiable? Yes to the first question, no to the second. Intelligent design is eminently falsifiable. Specified complexity in general and irreducible complexity in biology are within the theory of intelligent design the key markers of intelligent agency. If it could be shown that biological systems like the bacterial flagellum that are wonderfully complex, elegant, and integrated could have been formed by a gradual Darwinian process (which by definition is non-telic), then intelligent design would be falsified on the general grounds that one doesn't invoke intelligent causes when purely natural causes will do. In that case Occam's razor finishes off intelligent design quite nicely.

On the other hand, falsifying Darwinism seems effectively impossible. To do so one must show that no conceivable Darwinian pathway could have led to a given biological structure. What's more, Darwinists are apt to retreat into the murk of historical contingency to shore up their theory. For instance, Allen Orr in his critique of Behe's work shortly after Darwin's Black Box appeared remarked, "We have no guarantee that we can reconstruct the history of a biochemical pathway." What he conceded with one hand, however, he was quick to retract with the other. He added, "But even if we can't, its irreducible complexity cannot count against its gradual evolution.""

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/dembski/docs/bd-testable.html

Creationists, Intelligent design pushers, Witch doctors , mystics what ever you want to call them are too bonded to darwin. Darwins discovery of natural selection has been confirmed in the lab and in the field.

Intelligent Design invented by Erik Von Danekin has a traceable history and it is firmly based ion fantasy. There is no question that Intelligent design is deceit to serve a political agenda.

The real issue is to stop intelligent design cultists from preying on innocent children. I am gobsmacked that those who try and have ID taught to children are not locked away.

The question is why is not our government protecting our children from child predators who seek to manipulate our childrens minds with the perversion of religion?