http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8534303.stm

This now shows Aussie probably frauds were used in this murder.
Regardless of what you think of the victim.
*If it is the Israeli who instigated this murder.*
-It shows a number of things Israel has contempt for national sovereignty not only in alleged unfriendly nations but also that of it friends England, France, Germany and now Australia etc.
- clearly the Israelis haven't learned from their debacle in Norway some years back (murdering the wrong person). this forced the Mossad to pull their collective heads in.

If rules are to mean anything if proven Israel needs to be sanctioned.
Do we sanction other countries carrying out their wars where ever *they* want,even potentially in Australia. If we ignore it will we (Australia) be viewed as a compliant/tacit partner in terrorism? Is this one more straw to making us a target?
To me there are both issues of international law at stake here as well as our own interests.
It should be made clear that Israels war is of its own making and it should not get away with implicating us even peripherally

Dear Examinator,

Have they proven that Israel is really involved
in this matter - or is it the work of extremists?
Has Interpol got concrete evidence against Israel?

The incident happened in Dubai where a senior member
of the Palistinian group Hamas was murdered in a hotel
room - but do they have evidence of a direct link with Israel
in this matter?

Suspicions are one thing - but Israel can't be sanctioned
on suspicions. Concrete evidence is required.

In New Zealand in 2004 two suspected Mossad agents were jailed for six months. Eli Cara and Urie Zoshe Kelman pleaded guilty in the High Court in Auckland to attempting to falsely obtain a passport in the name of a person with cerebral palsy.

The New Zealand Prime Minister, Helen Clark, savaged the Israeli Government, not only for "an unacceptable breach of New Zealand sovereignty" but for failing to apologise.

Our Attorney-General at the time, Philip(get me a wooden stake) Ruddock said "I'm not saying it can't happen, but I'm saying what we do is build into our system a range of measures to ensure a high degree of integrity associated with Australian documents." Seems it wasnt good enough was it Phil the zombie?

Israel is a rogue state. A religious theocracy. A sponsor and commiter of terrorism. A colonial and occupying state. An apartheid state with entrenched inequality for non jews. A state with an illegal program and possession of weapons of mass destruction. A state that does not respect ANY countries sovereignty and laws, even those of their friends and allies. A country whos armed forces have commited numerous atrocities from the USS Liberty to Gaza to Sabra and Shatilla to Jenin and now straight out murder by mossad.

Israel must be convinced, by diplomatic pressure, public protest, boycotts, sanctions and even complete isolation, that they cannot lie, cheat, defraud and murder as they feel like it. If this was Iran we were talking about the bombs would already be falling on Tehran. How can the world stand by and suffer such hypocrisy in silence?

Foxy: << Have they proven that Israel is really involved in this matter - or is it the work of extremists? >>

Foxy, you write as if 'Israel' and 'extremists' are mutually exclusive categories. As mikk says, Israel is a rogue State that regards itself as being above international law.

While it's not proven, I don't think anybody much will be surprised when it is.

Mightily impressed on the "not-Mossad" hit on the Hamas dude by operatives dressed in tennis gear. Puts the Melbournian Serb and Croatian tennis crowd to shame.

Sympathy for a dead terrorist?. lol Nope.

Foxy, and others
I did say *"if Israel...."

The site cited does have a graphic on the side when I researched that it did give a relationship trail that seems to implicate.
Israeli ambassadors have been called in by the other countries to explain.

I think we should too for our own interests.

Israel is a country that sees it's self as a law unto it's self yet it tries to get the same countries' sovereignty it has breached on it's side.

It now appears that it was a well financed and large team involved.
Mossad claim a fierce intelligence system it is beyond credible belief that they wouldn't have known of it's existence (tacit support at least.) I note GY edited back my title.

Keep in mind I'm not anti Semitic (I have a Jewish daughter)I would be as hostile if the any other ME nation had done the same.I was incensed by France's attack in NZ too but that didn't involve Australia. This does.

I'll bet you that if this incident is traced back to Israeli privateers, Israel will refuse to extradite them to stand trial. It never has before.(re. Lebanese militia leaders)

Also imagine if we sent in ASIS to 'eliminate' the person who abused our passport or those who made it.

All countries (especially) Israel need to understand there are limits to rogue actions
________________________________

StG
You missed the point I clearly stated "regardless of..the individual.." I am concerned about the meaning of international law but it's the involving of Australia that is of direct interest to me.

Israel would be smart to vigorously try to repair the diplomatic damage that they have caused. It is irrelevant whether Mossad was involved because the Israeli opposition leader has commended whomever did this.

Who else would have committed this assassination but the Israelis?

They might find themself on their own without any friends very soon.

You want to exclude the FACT that at the time of this comment, and yours, there's no direct proof Israel had anything to do with it but still you're running with that train of thought that they did it but I can't comment on the dead guy?. Rightio, so this is another Jew bashing thread then?. At least we're clear on the ROE.

Australia's involvement?.

Quote from the Wall St Journal:

"At this stage, Australian officials have no information to suggest the three Australian passport holders were involved in any way, other than as victims of passport or identity fraud," Foreign Minister Stephen Smith told Parliament. "Preliminary analysis by the [Australian Federal Police], together with the Australian passport office, shows that the three Australian passports appear to have been duplicated or altered."

Maybe that might put your mind at ease just a little for fear of invasion of our beardy nutter brethren of the north?.

'Israel would be smart to vigorously try to repair the diplomatic damage that they have caused'

Why? They've never bothered before. Haven't they ignored every UN resolution or had it vetoed by the US. Law unto themselves they are. Though so is Hamas.

Israel, Palestine, meh. It's an argument about as resolvable as the god botherer threads.

In the end, I go for palestine as I'm anti-authoritarian and love the underdog, and hate people trading on past injustices. Race card, Jew card, gender card. It riles me. Probably because I haven't got any of those cards.

"Race card, Jew card, gender card. It riles me."

So far there's 29 mentions of Israel in this thread from 9 comments where the general theme is blame and sanctions without ANY concrete proof they did it. Make that 30. 'CTRL-F' it.

From examinator:

"...Israel need[s] to understand there are limits to rogue actions"

In a legal sense this thread is slander until there's proof they did it.

seems like people are wetting their pants in excitement because they believe they have something on Israel. Recently our National Broadcasters have been exposed rushing to lies when reporting events in the Middle East. It might be a little wise to take a breadth.

StG, I'm talking generally. I kinda like the James bond assassination action even if Israel had nothing to do with it. Beats a cluster bomb any day. Anyway, there's nothing wrong with hypotheticals.

runner,

If only I cared so much. I do agree with you though that you'll probably find the ABC and the typical OLO enthusiast is likely to get a hard on for Hamas.

I think the approach New Zealand took with the two Israeli agents was correct and we should enforce it with absolute consistency (my idea- send the agents back and 'condemn' their country of alliegance with our harsh words)!

Although I personally actually don't hold much fault against Israel (they simply resorting to whatever means necessary (even extreme) to ensure their safety), which I imagine we and most other countries would quickly emulate were we as hard pressed as they are- but we also need to hold ALL countries to the same account as far as agents and spies go- especially as far as Israel as, seemingly, every time they so much escape a parking fine in a Western country the Middle East seems to light up and a whole new generation of anti-Israel/Western terrorists rise up. A mild reprimand and some active steps might diffuse them a bit.

On another note- we should outlaw Australian citizens serving in any armed forces outside the jurisdiction of the Australian Armed Forces; any that wish to join a foreign army must apply for citizenship there and suspend/cancel their Australian Citizenship.

wondering why the cameras at the destination /arrival airports are so apparent..by their absence..

thing is..the powerr of the..'fiends of israel/and the israel lobby'..doing their thing..[we got camera's in the airports too...why no footage?]

further it is noted..that many of the..'names '..are in israel at the present time..meaning we cant have the embarrisment of the fakes in two airports..at the same time..thats mossad clever..

further it is noted..the army claims 13 'men'..needed in the army..to serve each soldier..[so the numbers for two assasins seem,s fair enough][one to backup..

then there is the need for lookouts/witnesses in case of capture..so/..the numbers seem about right..for one/nuclear armed rogue nation..who premptivly does its thing..via assasination..and worse in nthe gulags of gaza and west bank

we have their faces..we have facial recognition/..but again the silence is defening...there should be on many cameras globally/yet the vidio's stop..in a little hick town[dubbi]..not suss at all...lol

here is a clear act of terror...and the west does nothing..we seen the tennis dudes[with the fat one pointing out the direction/instruction to his mate..

[ok it neatly gets cut off..in much of the media reporting]...but the timeline..[annotated version of events..hasnt made it to the free-to-air either..]

in law it is said..who gains..pays..[and by the assanition its clear...israEL SOUGHT ADVANTAGE..but as usual got above its calling...these 3 million..[not so semite people]..squating in the holy lands..have to much affect..on the rest of the globe...but as the messiah said..by their works shall we know them

we see the signs of the beast in the holy lands..yet we have been so decieved...we dont see who tried to kill[..took life only god can give/ to..each living to live...but hey...this is satans realm after-all

let those who would be decieved be decieved

[believe if you have it/or disbelieve..if this is your way..[or make excuses/..try to excuse the inexcusable...god will never know...lol

StG
It isn't libelous the context is clear.
I did say *IF* at the beginning, therefore, every thing that followed is subjected to, the condition of that *IF*. please read what I *wrote* not your interpretation. If it went to court it would be dismissed on that grounds

How many example of Mossad's extra territorial illegal actions do you want? Check out the murder of the WRONG Palestinian in Norway after the Munich games. This is fact not imagination.

The issue is any UN country that ignores the sovereignty of another it rightly be defined rogue in those terms. I would call France's action in blowing up the rainbow warier as rogue wouldn't you?
NB France didn't use foreign passports.

The point was international law and our potentially peripheral implication in the breach and the perceptional consequences.

Are you saying the UK, France Germany are racist, against Israel and pro Hamas. They have already called the Israeli ambassadors in.
*IF* the link to the plot is confirmed then we should call Israeli Ambassador in and make our displeasure (diplomatic, elevation)known.

They are rightly concerned about the view of their countries reputations in the ME and at home. Elevation as terrorist targets.
It is not beyond the pale to see this as partial plot to make us seen as supporting their attitudes. Not necessarily the governments but the terrorists. In short a means to an end. It would be naive not to consider this.

Your racist claims overtones are coloured by your views, emotions.

I wonder if Israel has a few patrol boats, WITH CREW for hire.

Just a few of them should fix our illegal boat problem pretty damn quick.

Oh well, we can dream can't we?

I might need a little enlightening on how Mahmoud Abdel Rauf al-Mabhouh can be regarded as being a terrorist because of his involvement in the kidnapping and deaths of two Israeli soldiers in 1989 (where he disguised himself as an orthodox Jew) while the actions of the Mossad agents are seen as somehow justified.

Surely both are extra-judicial killings.

In the crudest sense either Mossad acted as a terrorist organisation or the killings of the two Israeli soldiers was all fair in love and war.

If Israel wants us to view al-Mabhouh as a criminal then the application of capital punishment without trial also is also a criminal act and should be prosecuted appropriately.

If it wasn't The Mossad, who else could it have been?

That's one of the things they are there for, that's what they do.

They even have their own assassination unit, known at different times as Caesarea and Kidon (Bayonet) and have done it all many times before.

Don't ever expect any proof short of a (very unlikely) confession.

Some of their agents were even arrested trying to set up a phoney al-Quaeda cell in Palestine a few years ago.

If the French can send agents to New Zealand to sink a Greenpeace boat, then anything's possible in the shady world of International Espionage.

However, imagine if it was the other way round. If an Israeli official was assassinated by suspected Hamas agents, the tanks would already be rolling.

I can't wait until the allegations of Mossad being "set up" start to appear in the media.

Wobble wrote;
If it wasn't The Mossad, who else could it have been?

Easy, in the middle east it could almost be anyone.
How about Fatah ? They hate Hamas' guts, so they would have to be a candidate.

Incidentaly, has anyone heard why Dubai arrested two Palestinians
over the assignation ?

According to the Israeli newspaper
"Haaretz," the Israeli PM approved
the assassination by Mossad in January.

You can read about it at the following
website:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1151245.html

Foxy,

I stopped reading at "Based on information obtained from "sources with knowledge of Mossad,"...

In retrosepct, I think that Bazz, StG and runner are correct.

Israel would never authorise and conduct an illegal assassination in another country.

Never.

Of course, we won't mention Gerald Bull, Zuheir Mosen, Atef Bseiso, Yehia El-Mashad, Mahmoud Hamshari, Basil Al-Kubaissi, Mohammed Boudia, Hussein Al Bashir, Wadie Haddad, Wael Zwaiter, Fathi Shiqaqi, Ahmed Bouchichi etc etc etc.

Agree examinator. Israel should be sanctioned and it was pleasing to see Stephen Smith giving the Ambassador a good 'diplomatic' roasting.

Sigh, runner why does your strong belief that humans are inherently evil not apply to Israelis.

Do you think that using Australian Passports, which subsquently puts Australians at risk, demonstrates any respect and consideration towards a nation that has always supported Israel even when they behave badly.

Agree Examinator, Pelican, CJ.

Too many signposts pointing at Mossad.

All I can do is pay attention and watch how it all plays out. Australian pass-ports were probably used just for simple expediency; a variety of pass-ports were required. Still be interesting to watch.

Pelican,

Who knows what effect it will have.

I don't abide uber conspiracy theories, simply because there usually no history, motive or little prima facie evidence.

Given that Israel has a long tradition, of the 'end justifies the means' and the hypocrisy, needed to sustain that view. Add to that a lengthy record of political & PR engineering, I wouldn't exclude much from their repertoire. Particularly given, they would benefit politically, if some terrorist now decided to take revenge on our territory. (reasoning (sic) that we helped Mossad in this action).

I can see the likes of our conservative brethren, going into a hissy spitting fit, over *all* Muslims and support for *poor* Israel.

I hasten to add, that beyond the carpeting of the Ambassador and/or terse words PM to PM, any more action would IMHO, be over the top and counter productive.

We had to be seen to sanction Israel for this action, if we have any hope of avoiding the stigma and consequences.

Clearly, I abhor extra judicial murders on principal, that it undermines the basis of diplomacy between all nations. Without this seemingly rigid dance, we would revert to the modern day equivalent of the neanderthal club/raid mentality.

Evidently this will take more than words
to counter the budding enablers gathering
momentum not only in our country but
globally.

So Australia is going to sanction Israel. You lot remind me of Palestinian youths throwing rocks at Israeli tanks.