Summing up then
- no one is really able to say whats so good for women in all this apart from "the ability to enjoy sex more" ( where is the evidence for this and when is someone going to talk about the regrets issue amongst women - Bel mooney mentions it and ABCTV promotes it as the norm - no wonder young women are looking for something OTHER than what the 60's generation TALKED ABOUT )
Women are more emotionally complex about sex than men surely ? building your dreams around 5 minutes of fun seems more like a myth man's mind might manufacture.
All this sidetrack talmk of women and career is at most only relevant to those with them. Clearly if WE can't talk about most women who are chosing marriage THIS disussion is very incomplete .
How interested in current myths and excuses- ( Why keep bashing the RC church - media bashers and manipulators , fun promoters are the relevant ones )?

- the young innocent( gullible ) are left to fend for themsleves.Great ! What are you - public citizens? ,> do you not care for the casaulties in young children that mellisa tankard identified on Qanda ?
- most of you seem to be in denial about the fact that sexual frustration ( and regret? )is one of the key products of uncommitted sex
- most of you seem to be in denial about the fact that concentrating on quickfix and technical aspects denies the deeper need we mostly seem to have to merge love and will in relationships.

Shallow the sexual revolution was. shallow it remains.

I find myself having to agree with CJ. Hanrahan never really defined this thread as being about any particular aspect of the sexual revolution.

Pynchme wanted to talk about porn, in particular the type where sex is used to humiliate the actress as much as possible.

Cornflower wanted to talk about the pill. Everyone agreed that the pill was a huge step foward, but we couldn't agree on how bad the side-effects are.

Foxy was busily searching for the middle ground.

Anti only got one swipe in at the feminists.

No-one bothered commenting on the ABC church had to say.

'pushing porn'? pft. Avert your eyes!

Most guys I know and a lot of women are happy to see naked imagery. Same as drug pushers. People who talk about drug pushers never understand the efforts drug takers undergo to find the drug 'pushers'.

As a user of both these 'vices' over the years, I hereby express my gratitude to the porn and drug providers of this world, for the pleasure and enjoyment they have provided me.

I also take responsibility for any displeasure as a result of me seeking out the services of these hard working men and women that provide a valued and much sought after service.

Yep, when it comes to drugs and porn, we should always limit the discussion to blanket representations of violent gang bangs and the results of heroin addiction.

'women don't really want cocks in all their orifices, simultaneously'

Maybe not all women, maybe not most women, but it's a brave person to speak for all women all of the time.

Men on the other hand, are singularly desperate to engage in romantic walks along the beach and talk about their feelings with that special woman. In fact, they are brutish and confused, just waiting for that special woman with that special womans' love to tame them. Then they'll be happy forever more shopping for 'scatter cushions'.

CJ Morgan, "The lifting of censorship of so-called 'obscene' literature and images led directly to the legitimation and normalisation of material that had hitherto been prohibited."

No, it did not inevitably lead to the 'legitimation' and 'normalisation' of the sort of pornography that Pynchme is referring to at all. Pynchme is attributing cause and blame for the explosion of present day pornography and its content to the amendment of laws during the sexual revolution of the Sixties, as are you in support of her, however it is illogical to do so and the cause/s are otherwise.

It is much the same as blaming a shovel for its use in a murder: Pynchme, "The shovel caused it Yer Honour, there is a direct link between shovels and murder because had not shovels been legal this murder would not have happened." If one follows this woolly and crooked logic, no freedom can ever be given because it would always result in wrong behaviour.

Pynchme's adolescent blend of Marxism and Eighties radical feminism causes her to reject more simple, obvious, mundane explanations for the increase in pornography, such as demand. Predictably, Pynchme blames her hated capitalists and the Sixties sexual revolution, which got rid of some bad law for opening the gate. She is being proactive in protecting her feminism from any blame for rauch behaviour (which she holds to be good nonetheless).

While on the subject, the obscenity and pornography laws that were successfully fought against in the Sixties had been aimed at far broader restrictions on information and behaviour than just 'pornography'.

However much it galls Pynchme, who is forever trashing her opposite gender ('menz' - what a ridiculous rad fem word) for pornography and dirty deeds as a result of it, women are also major consumers of pornography and their numbers are growing. This is happening through choice, not because greedy capitalists can have their evil way with women.

However Pynchme's adolescent radical feminism doesn't permit any acceptance of the diversity of women, nor of men.

Contd...

Benk:"No-one bothered commenting on the ABC church"

Well, the ABC is a broads' church, after all...

I have been remarkably restrained about feminism, havent I? I must be mellowing.

Houellebecq, you're obviously a deviant of the highest order. I suggest you turn yourself in to the nearest lynch mob and save everyone a lot of time.

Pynchme:"You never seem to question the way that you're exploited by other men "

Oh really? Do enlighten me, won't you?

Apart from the ATO, I don't think I have anyone exploiting me, although the ex and the CSA tried pretty hard to do so.

Oh yeah, I think meat is way too dear as well and don't get me started on the cost of sawblades. Or beer.