Further to my last post, if U were to attend a UN Human Rights Conference in Geneva and consult with the N.G.O.'s as did I in the year 2000, U may conclude as have I that all of the governments of the world are criminals, in varying degrees, who cheat, lie, steal and in some cases even murder in their common, insatiable lust for material influence, possession and power.

Look at the *bush turkey* of the mongrel pom american regime. I have heard it said that during his term as guvna that he had more "Human Beings" executed than all of the other american states put together at that point in time. In my view, that most certainly disqualifies him as a Christian or individual of benevolent Spiritual persuasion.

Further, it is said that upwards of 100,000 innocent Iraqi non-combatants have been killed in the vile bombing campaigns of the anglo alliance. By their own admission, as can be read in the archives of ABC Australia's LateLine, in pursute of those they consider to be enemies, the anglo/american alliance is quite prepared to slaughter innocents.

For example, 2 alleged combatants detected by surveillance in an apartment block are killed along with a significant portion of the rest of the community when the whole building is bombed.

Concurrently, the *bush turkey* et al project themselves as avenging Christians to the Islamic world. (What a travesty!)

The Islamic peasant folk understand and equate the word "Christian" now with wholesale destruction and slaughter. Perhaps it is these so-called false Christians like windsor, blair, bush and howard who are the subject of your references.

...Adam...

Dear Carsten...well done ! you looked up the reference and completed the quote. I left it out as I didn't feel it changed the sense of his cursing. Why ? because he is cursing Christians and Jews for something entirely ok under God. There is no prohibition whatsoever about where we build churches, and he was cursing us because he felt we were 'ascribing partners to Allah' and in the case of Christians he could have only had ONE place in mind, and that is the church of the holy sepulchre. He is cursing Christians on the basis of our faith. Christians build a house of worship at a location strong in the memory of the physical Christ, and we are cursed for this.
So, I don't believe at all that my selective use was 'spin'.

He warned the Muslims, by cursing Christians. At worst he is CURSING Christians and Jews... that is the 'worst' case, because that is what the words say. The arabic was not translated by Christians, but by Muslims.

I have a problem with being cursed by mohammed, and I have a problem with being cursed by the Quran.. do you have a problem with my having that problem ? We need to be clear on the understanding of this passage because I am using it as evidence for the cultural incompatability of Muslims to Australia in terms of Immigration.

The letters have already been sent.

Is there any comparable 'cursing' of Muslims by Jesus ? of course not.
Unfortunately, there is a line of religious violence going directly from today right back to Mohammed. You can trace the violence of 'Christendom' back to Constanine, 300 yrs after Christ.
Islamic violence goes back to the founder..directly in an unbroken line. The violence is based on the idea that Mohammed was establishing an Islamic State for the world. Sorry, I don't want Muslims here on that basis, and there is no other basis where one can be truly Muslim, because Mohammed is described as the 'best of all mankind' which is an insult to Jesus the Christ.

Dear Adam
I feel you are quite correct in regard to all worldly governments being criminal and corrupt. To a greater or lesser degree at least.

Problem number 1. 'How to fix this' ? Do you have any enduring suggestion ?

"Power corrupts, but absolute power, corrupts absolutely"
+
"Corruption on the throne = Corruption in the market place"

taken together don't paint an optomistic picture by your view.

My view is that no earthly government system will be free of corruption, and that includes Islamic ones. Take the Shia/Sunni dispute as one simple example.
Marxism is flawed and failed, fascism and national socialism were flawed and failed.. capitalism looks like a winner...until it consumes all the resources which gave it's bottom line.

That leaves "My kindgom is not of this world" (Jesus) and "Our citizenship is in heaven" (Paul)

One thing I know Adam, in Christ, people are new creations. Rome was overtaken by the peaceful spread of the Gospel, and such will win the prize today also. But it is a dynamic thing. No system is workable due to human sin, Christ is the answer to sin, and renewal is what occurs when we live in Him

Is there any comparable 'cursing' of Muslims by Jesus ? of course not.

Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 6 January 2007 12:22:45 PM

The 'of course not' being because Islam did not exist at the time of Jesus.

I have had many Muslims friends in Australia. One Professor was a leader amongst the Muslim community in Perth. I related to them well, and see no need to exclude them from Australia.

Tell me, if this was 60 years ago, would you have been among those Australians calling for the restriction of Italian and other southern European immigration?

Dear_Carsten.
Firstly let me assure you that my opposition to Muslim immigration and Islam as a faith in no way reflects a personal animosity towards friendly_Muslims. The problem is much more serious than individual niceness or lack_thereof.
It goes to the heart_of_Islam itself, and my reasoning is as follows:

1/ The core of the faith is anti Christian and anti Jew. (and not from God)
2/ Because it is a community, it will have a statistical spread of 'slackers on the left, moderate or nominal in the middle, and whacko radicals on the right. I don't think you would argue with that would you ?
3/ The larger the community, the more radical/whacko's.
4/ Radicals drive agendas. (and perhaps up to 6 rocket launchers soon ?)

This means that the likes of Hilali and Omran would be more likely to seek to determine the direction of the community by 'core' methods. In some countries this takes the form of radical students attacking non hijabed female students, even raping them. Then there is
-Attacking nightclubs (Bali)
-Attacking liquor outlets
-Attacking movie theatres
-Attacking beauty contests.
One such example is here.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1877549,00.html
The modeerate response is here
http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20061113-085024-8303r

If the radicals started killing the moderates, how loud would the moderate voice be ?

Except from an email received this morning from an Islamic apologist:
(Bassam Zawardi)http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=632&section=memberbase&subsection=myarticle

[Regarding, offensive Jihad. It is basically saying that all the earth must have Islamic (God) ruled governments. God's law must be established. Those that reject it, can pay the jizya.]

His view of Jizya is 'not beyond their capabilities' But for the Khaiber Jews it was 50%.

My current view about Italian or Greek Immigration is 'controlled numbers' not 'none'. I get outright angry when a 3rd generation Aussie of greek background says "I'm so proud to be GREEK" which is blatantly racist.

My view on all immigration is:
Cultural and Religious compatability
Social Cohesian
Political Stability.

NO Multiculturalism, but promote unity, intermarraige and harmony.

Having attended the committal hearing for the 13 suspects in Melbourne twice, I see little possibility for that with them.

Dear *David*

I am told that "In Christ we are assured of Justice," but also that "God helps those who help themSelves."

Let then the political Churches pursue justice by first acknowledging thier own sins & then proactively seeking candidates to prosecute the crown who is argueably guilty of some of the most abhorrrent crimes known to Humanity.

For example, let us go back to pre-world war 2 to the time when the crown played host to an individual who was, very likely, in Spiritual terms, an advocate of the Almighty.

This person, a senior politician hailing from Russia, warned us all of the likely horrors to come for those held in disfavour by the nazis & others like them.

To cut a long story short, with good support from the Unions, a vote was held to garner the opinion of the "good" folk of Australia as to the question of whether or not to re-settle numerous Disabled, Gays, Gypsies and Jews here in Oz. The vast majority of the people gave their unconditional support.

Notwithstanding this, the in my view, dastardly, evil, crown denied the will of the "good folk" and turned the Asylum Seekers away, much as the child abusers in Canberra are doing today.

Perhaps this was in part becoz they feared a legal precedent which could lead to the Original Australians claiming their land back, not to mention the diamonds. The rest as we know is history and a terrible legacy in this part of the world.
ref "An UnPromised Land" by Leon Gettler