His last words were:

"There is no God but God, and Mohammed is his messenger"

As Sadaam reached the end of the rope, literally, and was transported from this world to the next, I'm afraid that the words he hears will not be those he expected.

Instead: "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father, but by me" John 14:6

Sadaam proclaimed a lie. We proclaim the Truth.

The reality of Islam, based on its own founder, is that Mohammed was much LIKE Sadaam, in his treatment of enemy tribes or even those he "considered" enemies.

Sadaam arranged many a political assasination, so did MOhammed.
Sadaam killed large numbers of people in a systematic way, so did Mohammed.
Sadaam presumably had sufficient access to female 'toys' as he could want, and so did MOhammed.

Sadaam made war against other tribes, and so did Mohammed.

Sadaam was kind to children, he was often seen embracing them on TV.
He sought to build up a State, but he was a bit more embracing of luxury than Mohammed. Does it matter ?

So, I wish to take this opportunity to proclaim Christ Jesus, Son of God, God the Son, Saviour of mankind, reconciling the world to Himself for those who believe.

The man who Sadaam claimed is Allah's messenger, also claimed that those who ascribe 'partners' to Allah are cursed. To an exent I have to agree, but the problem is, God..was IN Christ, and to reduce the Lord Jesus to a 'partner' with God is a blasphemous insult. But this is what Islam does. The difference between Christianity and Islam is this. We Christians will leave the judgement of such matters to God Almighty, and not seek to punish people in this world for insulting God, Muslims and Islam as a faith, take the opposite view, punishment in THIS life for such things.

Jesus of Nazereth... the Christ.

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Boaz-David,

I have to agree with you. Pity Sadam didn't find Christ before he died, that's the saddest thing about this whole business. We know he had at least one, I dare say nominal, Christian in his cabinet, Tariq Azziz. If he believed in spreading his faith, obviously Sadam didn't want to know.

The one good thing about Sadam was that he didn't hate the Christians as much as most Muslims. He even allowed the Bible Society of Jordan to set up a Bible printing shop in Iraq.

The Christians of Iraq have been suffering terribly since the war, because they are seen as being on the side of the "invaders" because of their common religion. Many of them have fled to neighbouring Jordan and Syria. The Shiites who are in power want them all gone. Yet the Christians (Assyrians) were there before the Arab Muslim invasions in the 7th or 8th centuries.

We are supposed to believe that the minority Sunnis have only been in power over the majority Shiites since Sadam Hussein gained power. It has been this way for four hundred years, since the Ottoman Turks gained power over this region.

I have long believed that half-truths can be more dangerous than outright falshoods.

If the reports are accurate that Saddam Hussein's last words were "There is no God but God, and Mohammed is his messenger", then he may have departed this life proclaiming an half-truth. As such, and for what he did, he is not to be mourned.

I have a recollection from media reports (a perhaps questionable source) that one of Saddam's intended projects, when he was still a dictator, was to have been a reconstruction of the ancient city of Babylon, restoring it to some semblance of its former 'glory'. Does anyone, in addition to Jeremiah, have any detailed reference to any progress upon this project?

Sic transit gloria. Who had the last word?

Boaz David,
For me, if the religious George Bush is a leader of "the good guys", your Lord and for that matter, Saddam's Mohammed, both work in puzzling and mysterious ways.

When will people learn. All religions are based on three things - philosophy, mythology and superstition. There is no such thing as an "interventionist God"

Dear Kartya
Its probably pointless to 'point out' that cruelties perpetrated by Americans were dealt with in a court of law, some have been imprisoned.

I can see that soon it will be neccessary to write something on a "War and the Christian State" or a "Christian doctrine of war"

But I absolutely believe there is more to it than the face value of those clearly symbolic words. Remember he also said in the same sermon "If you eye sins, GOUGE it out" which is clearly not intended literally. This is a manner of speaking which was CULTURAL they spoke in superlatives, but they did 'get' the meaning.

Bush claims to be Christian, but he also IS 'The Emperor' in terms of Romans 13, and as such has legitimate responsibilities to 'deter the evildoer' WITH THE SWORD.(or the Abrams M-1 and the F-16)

You, and I KNOW in our hearts where the problems of IRAQ are coming from, and it surely is NOT the Americans at the moment. Sunni is slaughtering Shia and vice versa. This is the current manifestation of the conflict between 2 familes after the 4th Caliph. Omayyads and Abassyds. Each had a different understanding of who should be the head of the Islamic state and they have been fighting that SAME war since around 750ad. Don't be so gullable as to blame Bush or the Americans for that mate. To do so would be to demonstrate an ignorance of history that I would be embarrassed to admit :)

Then there is the resurgent PERSIAN empire. Don't forget that.
If the Americans have a dabble in that region, so be it. Its not for you to criticize really, but hey, there is no Sadaam here who will gouge out the eyes of your children in front of you for saying it so go4it :)

Bottom Line. Show me an 'Emperor' who has to make the hard decisions, who will please all the people all the time and the next day I will show you polka dotted pigs flying mate.

Hi David,

Your first post was a bit fundamentalist orientated :-( What difference does it make what religious belief Saddam held ?

Before you call any other religion you should delve deeply into the history of christianity - you may be very surprised to learn that christians have been the worst of the worse in regards to murder, rape, torture, stealing, taking over others lands etc.,

Dear Freethinker
I totally welcome your comments, and wish to respond.

Firstly, in principle, you are totally correct. I would never dispute the evidence from history of goings on in Christendom which make the jaw drop and the eyes bulge concerning their cruelty and brutality. Some of the worst brutality has been between Christian factions. Catholic/Protestant, Hugeno's etc, Cromwell, Ireland, Inquisition, Some aspects of the Crusades.

All are to be freely admitted.

But, there is always a but.

The most important 'but' is the connection between such behavior and the teaching of Christ. As a general statement, we can say as follows:

-Christ (and the apostles)neither acted nor taught anything other than the power of the Word to expand the kingdom of God.

-Mohammed and his companions were warlike in word,doctrine and deed from the inception of Mohammed supposedly as a prophet.

So, this leaves us the task of understanding the relationship between Christendom and War/brutality.

I can accept 'War' by Christian States, but I cannot accept 'Brutality'. The only kind of war which has any moral virtue is that which is to defend freedom, and promote justice. Such was World War II.

Wars which are aimed at extending territory, or forcing the conversion of the populace are immoral and evil and certainly not "Christian" in any manner.

I'm grappling with this at the moment, and will try to put a piece together asap about this for a new thread.
I hope you will give your valued comments there also.

Hi David,

"-Christ (and the apostles)neither acted nor taught anything other than the power of the Word to expand the kingdom of God.

-Mohammed and his companions were warlike in word,doctrine and deed from the inception of Mohammed supposedly as a prophet"

This would appear to be correct 1) assuming that history has given us correct information regarding Mohammed and 2) I remember in the bible that JC had a tendency to throw swine off mountain tops and kill fig trees, he also said something about not bringing peace but a sword. Anyway, the assumption that Jesus lived at all is one open to debate. However, I would agree that overall the teachings of JC were aimed primarily at peace. I would also state that if JC were to walk into a church today and teach the same principles that he supposedly taught 2,000 years ago, he would get kicked out.

"I can accept 'War' by Christian States, but I cannot accept 'Brutality'. The only kind of war which has any moral virtue is that which is to defend freedom, and promote justice. Such was World War II"

The burning times are probably my favourite in regards to christian brutally. The slaying of the Cathars might be another one to look into. World War II is probably the only justifiable was in the last 200 years.

"I'm grappling with this at the moment, and will try to put a piece together asap about this for a new thread. I hope you will give your valued comments there also"

I'll look for the thread :-)

If Sadaams last words became law. (but I reverse them and apply them to Muslims here)

RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE IN AUSTRLIA.
Again, due to Sadaams last words promoting Islam, it might be advantageous for us to consider what life would be like for Muslims in Australia, if we applied their laws for us, back on them.

TAXATION. All Muslims will be taxed at 50% of their gross income, and the land will be forfeit to the state. (precedent, Mohammeds law for the Jews at Khaybar)

PRACTICE RELIGION. Muslims will be free to practice their faith with the exception of proseletising/converting. No one is allowed by law to convert to Islam.

FOOD LAWS. No special provision is to be made for Muslim food habits. They are to avail themselves of normal food provided for sale.

MOSQUES They cannot extend any mosque or build new mosques. All repairs to existing mosques must be approved by the State. (Charter of Omar)

SOCIAL POSITION. Muslims are to wear distinct clothing, and must always provide free accomodation to non Muslim Australians as they need it.

WORSHIP. Their worship must be quiet, not audible to outsiders. They must never demonstrate or be in any way active politically. They cannot vote. (precedent. Charter of Omar for dhimmis')

If anyone takes issue with these proposed rules, please yell loud and forcefully, but in doing so, yell that they came from Islam and Mohammed, directed against Christians and Jews. It was worse for unbelievers. Judge the words above, and you judge Mohammed, but I don't mind.

If readers desire to avoid such policies, the best thing is to realize that they come from the last words of Sadaam and vote accordingly.

Freethinker. I've done the thread. Make sure you look at the important links though please. Just on the points you mentioned about Jesus saying he came to bring a sword. Read it in context mate and its the same 'cultural' way of talking. Pigs..it was the demons who drove them. Tree.. yes, curious :)

Boazy: "If readers desire to avoid such policies, the best thing is to realize that they come from the last words of Sadaam and vote accordingly."

Got it - I definitely won't vote for the Baath Party at the next election. And aren't they secular anyway?

Saddam Hussein's reported last words are the Muslim version of anyone facing death who suddenly finds God. He was hardly a devout Muslim before that moment, and Iraq certainly wasn't run according to the learned Boaz's rendition of Sharia law.

More "codswallop" from our resident Islamic scholar.

C.J. -points duly_noted. But Sadaam apparently drew_comfort from the Quran for a considerable time during his incarceration, not just at the last minute.

I'm using his words as a hook, because he is iconic, and thus, his words are also iconic. Sure glad you won't be voting for the Baathists next election :) But you might like to consider also not voting for their Green and Lefty sympathizers who are not so far away from them, should they ever gain power.

In currently in debate with the principle of an Islamic girls school in Sydney, and I'm quite astonished at how she describes factual accounts of Mohammeds lifestyle as 'insults'.

The particular point I will increasingly make is that Mohammed allowed and practiced Temporary Marraige. (Nikah Muta') This practice was forbidden by Caliph Omar, but in his forbidding, he actually states that the prophet did practice it. Given that theologically, Mohammed must always take precedence over those who suceeded him, I find this prohibition by Omar to be out of order. This is why Shia males in Sydney are still trying to lure Sunni girls into one nite stands in the name of temporary marriage, and using the history and example of Mohammed in their persuasion.

The further I go into the 'fine print' of Islamic practice, the more convinced I am that it is simply a thin veil for male lust driven social and political agenda's.

When I criticize Mohammed on such grounds, I'm told I'm insulting the 'best of mankind' but.. well.. I then turn my attention to this:

Hadith_Bukhari http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/005.sbt.html

Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:
Narrated Qatada:

Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven).

P.S. have a browse of this mate
http://muslim-canada.org/muslimstats.html

[FreeThinker]
" ... Before you call any other religion you should delve deeply into the history of christianity - you may be very surprised to learn that christians have been the worst of the worse in regards to murder, rape, torture, stealing, taking over others lands etc., ... "

Indeed "FreeThinker" but then many are the nefarious infiltrators of the religions and Holy places of the world.

My view is that saddam was no Muslim, as the israeli militants are no Jews as the crown and its servants are no Christians.

I agree, in part, with Robert Fisk: (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article2114403.ece)
" ... Robert Fisk: He takes his secrets to the grave. Our complicity dies with him
How the West armed Saddam, fed him intelligence on his 'enemies', equipped him for atrocities - and then made sure he wouldn't squeal
Published: 31 December 2006
We've shut him up. The moment Saddam's hooded executioner pulled the lever of the trapdoor in Baghdad yesterday morning, Washington's secrets were safe. The shameless, outrageous, covert military support which the United States - and Britain - gave to Saddam for more than a decade remains the one terrible story which our presidents and prime ministers do not want the world to remember. And now Saddam, who knew the full extent of that Western support - given to him while he was perpetrating some of the worst atrocities since the Second World War - is dead. ... "

Again we see the crown and its child abusing "Jack the Ripper" allies frantically murdering witnessess against it in the matter of alleged Crimes against Humanity.

Head of a Church of Christ?! What a joke!
More like the "Head of House Legion Pig!"

...Adam...

Hi David,

""I've done the thread. Make sure you look at the important links though please. Just on the points you mentioned about Jesus saying he came to bring a sword. Read it in context mate and its the same 'cultural' way of talking. Pigs..it was the demons who drove them. Tree.. yes, curious :) "" Found thread and replied with links LOL darn word limit :-(

""SOCIAL POSITION. Muslims are to wear distinct clothing, and must always provide free accomodation to non Muslim Australians as they need it""

I could save a motza on mortgage payments :-)

The majority of individuals that I know of different religious persuasions are generally nice, peace loving people. Fundamentalists of any religion are not for me though, and I believe that those are the groups responsible for much that it going on in the world today.

Hi Adam,

Couldn't agree with Fisk more!! Same goes with bin Laden.

Interestingly, Pakistani intelligence reported that 2 days after the initial attacks they saw the US helicopter Hussein and his family out of Iraq. According to the US, Hussein had about 7 'doubles' that he routinely used so that his enemies couldn't kill him. Question - Did they neck a double ?

Leave Saddam alone.........

His belief is his belief and is as valid as anyone else.

Reality check guys..there is no god!

Come back to the land of the living eh?

They were NOT Saddams last words - the trapdoor was released mid-prayer. I only wonder at the motives of those posters who claim the 'last words'.

Regardless of his personal beliefs (I do not know what they were), Saddam was a secular strongman, and religion did not play a part in his rule.

And are the posters forgetting that Christianity has a much more bloody history than Islam?

I sense a group of people twisting the truth to further their own agenda(s).

'I sense a group of people twisting the truth to further their own agenda(s). ' Indeed Carsten..

Headed up by Boaz Davids tired and twisted spin on 'religion'.

I would venture to add this group of 'christians' would present as something close to the &th day Adventist genre..

We all close doors on these 2 faced zealots!

Boaz..get a job.

correction.

That should read '7th Day Adventist genre'...

unHOLY... Thanx for the stimulating response:) I have a job thanks.

Just a quick touch on "your forgetting that Chrisians have been the WORST in rape murder etc"

Firstly, that is factually incorrect as has been repeatedly pointed out by a number of posters. I won't even bother to give the links, its a dead horse and no amount of flogging will bring it to its legs.

Secondly, no true 'Christian' would do any of those things. Refer to the teaching of Christ. So, the most that can be said is this:

"There have been many terrible and tragic things done by those calling themselves Christians" Consider the "Lords Resistance Army" in Uganda... c'mon.. lets have some fact based discussion here.

Regarding Sadaams "last" words ? Ok.. maybe not his exact last words, but close to it. It was the final statement he wised to have attributed to him. "There is no God but God..etc"

MOHAMMEDS LAST WORDS: (Hadith Bukhari)

I've since found that the last words of MOHAMMED are as follows:

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 660:
Narrated 'Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas:

On his death-bed Allah's Apostle put a sheet over his-face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, "May ALLAH'S CURSE be on the Jews and the Christians...."

wow ! lets add that to Quran 9:30 "Christians.... Allah's curse be on them, they are deluded and away from the truth"

Not bad going. We are doubly cursed by Islam and the chief Muslim.
Sounds like Pope Benedict was EXACTLY RIGHT.

Contrary to some opinions, I am not giving 'spin'... the evidence is b4 ur eyes.

Hi David,

The problem is that most christian fundamentalists believe this:

""they are deluded and away from the truth""

about anyone who doesn't believe in their version of god. Apparently I'm headed straight for hell because I don't believe in a god. Which would probably make me an atheist to some, but I only believe in one less god than you do - so it makes us both atheists really :-)

Religious beliefs of all variations have caused untold bloodshed and agony throughout history, which is the reason that many want to keep religion out of politics. Bush, Blair and Howard all have christian religious leanings and look at the state the world is in.

David , your trying to show us why George Bush is "EMPEROR", [according to your Bible]will get you bogged down in foggy ancient texts with a million interpretations .
The simple Ten Commandments are a better bet David ."Thou shalt not kill"etc etc.These are basic rules for all societies .No Emperor Bush Required.
We should remember the Lord was a "chippy" with Socialist leanings , not a well paid and well educated member of a domineering , upper ruling class .
Sadam was an Emperor in his own way too .

Freethinker...

yes.. if you wish to know how Christians understand the lot of non Christians... Romans 1:18 etc is the best place to look. But bear in mind, this is Gods position, not simply ours. You need to read the rest of Pauls letter in Romans to gain the full picture.

The BIG difference between Christians declaring that unbelievers are 'lost' is that we will not come and beat your family to death until you agree with us. We leave the wrath or judgement of God, on spiritual matters to Him. (not withstanding some abysmal attempts by various Popes and supposed Christian Emperors to do otherwise, contrary of course to Scripture)

Compare the Biblical picture with this:

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386:
Narrated Jubair bin Haiya:

Al-Mughira speaking(a general sent by Omar, a companion of Mohammed)

Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- "Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master."

Do you not see some very serious reasons to be concerned about Islam as a faith... here is the real life interpetation of the Quran, by those intimately connected to Mohammed. (Omar) they received their understanding directly from him.

(I think I need to run a public SEMINAR :)

JIM -in a way I am suggesting Bush is 'Emperor' but not a perfect one.
I have PLENTY of issues with him, but I have more with the DEMS.
The point in Scripture about the Emperor, was the recognition that 'Authority' is required for societies to function. Romans 13 referred to a pagan Roman.

Thanx for all contributions :)

Not bad going. We are doubly cursed by Islam and the chief Muslim.
Sounds like Pope Benedict was EXACTLY RIGHT.

Contrary to some opinions, I am not giving 'spin'... the evidence is b4 ur eyes.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 4 January 2007 2:20:54 PM

partial quotes are not spin'?

"May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians for they build places of worship at the graves of their prophets." (By that) he intended to warn (the Muslim) from what they (i.e. Jews and Christians) had done.

Who knows how accurate the translation was to English. However, at worst, he is calling for Muslims to NOT build places of worship at the graves of 'prophets'. You have a problem with this?

Further to my last post, if U were to attend a UN Human Rights Conference in Geneva and consult with the N.G.O.'s as did I in the year 2000, U may conclude as have I that all of the governments of the world are criminals, in varying degrees, who cheat, lie, steal and in some cases even murder in their common, insatiable lust for material influence, possession and power.

Look at the *bush turkey* of the mongrel pom american regime. I have heard it said that during his term as guvna that he had more "Human Beings" executed than all of the other american states put together at that point in time. In my view, that most certainly disqualifies him as a Christian or individual of benevolent Spiritual persuasion.

Further, it is said that upwards of 100,000 innocent Iraqi non-combatants have been killed in the vile bombing campaigns of the anglo alliance. By their own admission, as can be read in the archives of ABC Australia's LateLine, in pursute of those they consider to be enemies, the anglo/american alliance is quite prepared to slaughter innocents.

For example, 2 alleged combatants detected by surveillance in an apartment block are killed along with a significant portion of the rest of the community when the whole building is bombed.

Concurrently, the *bush turkey* et al project themselves as avenging Christians to the Islamic world. (What a travesty!)

The Islamic peasant folk understand and equate the word "Christian" now with wholesale destruction and slaughter. Perhaps it is these so-called false Christians like windsor, blair, bush and howard who are the subject of your references.

...Adam...

Dear Carsten...well done ! you looked up the reference and completed the quote. I left it out as I didn't feel it changed the sense of his cursing. Why ? because he is cursing Christians and Jews for something entirely ok under God. There is no prohibition whatsoever about where we build churches, and he was cursing us because he felt we were 'ascribing partners to Allah' and in the case of Christians he could have only had ONE place in mind, and that is the church of the holy sepulchre. He is cursing Christians on the basis of our faith. Christians build a house of worship at a location strong in the memory of the physical Christ, and we are cursed for this.
So, I don't believe at all that my selective use was 'spin'.

He warned the Muslims, by cursing Christians. At worst he is CURSING Christians and Jews... that is the 'worst' case, because that is what the words say. The arabic was not translated by Christians, but by Muslims.

I have a problem with being cursed by mohammed, and I have a problem with being cursed by the Quran.. do you have a problem with my having that problem ? We need to be clear on the understanding of this passage because I am using it as evidence for the cultural incompatability of Muslims to Australia in terms of Immigration.

The letters have already been sent.

Is there any comparable 'cursing' of Muslims by Jesus ? of course not.
Unfortunately, there is a line of religious violence going directly from today right back to Mohammed. You can trace the violence of 'Christendom' back to Constanine, 300 yrs after Christ.
Islamic violence goes back to the founder..directly in an unbroken line. The violence is based on the idea that Mohammed was establishing an Islamic State for the world. Sorry, I don't want Muslims here on that basis, and there is no other basis where one can be truly Muslim, because Mohammed is described as the 'best of all mankind' which is an insult to Jesus the Christ.

Dear Adam
I feel you are quite correct in regard to all worldly governments being criminal and corrupt. To a greater or lesser degree at least.

Problem number 1. 'How to fix this' ? Do you have any enduring suggestion ?

"Power corrupts, but absolute power, corrupts absolutely"
+
"Corruption on the throne = Corruption in the market place"

taken together don't paint an optomistic picture by your view.

My view is that no earthly government system will be free of corruption, and that includes Islamic ones. Take the Shia/Sunni dispute as one simple example.
Marxism is flawed and failed, fascism and national socialism were flawed and failed.. capitalism looks like a winner...until it consumes all the resources which gave it's bottom line.

That leaves "My kindgom is not of this world" (Jesus) and "Our citizenship is in heaven" (Paul)

One thing I know Adam, in Christ, people are new creations. Rome was overtaken by the peaceful spread of the Gospel, and such will win the prize today also. But it is a dynamic thing. No system is workable due to human sin, Christ is the answer to sin, and renewal is what occurs when we live in Him

Is there any comparable 'cursing' of Muslims by Jesus ? of course not.

Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 6 January 2007 12:22:45 PM

The 'of course not' being because Islam did not exist at the time of Jesus.

I have had many Muslims friends in Australia. One Professor was a leader amongst the Muslim community in Perth. I related to them well, and see no need to exclude them from Australia.

Tell me, if this was 60 years ago, would you have been among those Australians calling for the restriction of Italian and other southern European immigration?

Dear_Carsten.
Firstly let me assure you that my opposition to Muslim immigration and Islam as a faith in no way reflects a personal animosity towards friendly_Muslims. The problem is much more serious than individual niceness or lack_thereof.
It goes to the heart_of_Islam itself, and my reasoning is as follows:

1/ The core of the faith is anti Christian and anti Jew. (and not from God)
2/ Because it is a community, it will have a statistical spread of 'slackers on the left, moderate or nominal in the middle, and whacko radicals on the right. I don't think you would argue with that would you ?
3/ The larger the community, the more radical/whacko's.
4/ Radicals drive agendas. (and perhaps up to 6 rocket launchers soon ?)

This means that the likes of Hilali and Omran would be more likely to seek to determine the direction of the community by 'core' methods. In some countries this takes the form of radical students attacking non hijabed female students, even raping them. Then there is
-Attacking nightclubs (Bali)
-Attacking liquor outlets
-Attacking movie theatres
-Attacking beauty contests.
One such example is here.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1877549,00.html
The modeerate response is here
http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20061113-085024-8303r

If the radicals started killing the moderates, how loud would the moderate voice be ?

Except from an email received this morning from an Islamic apologist:
(Bassam Zawardi)http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=632&section=memberbase&subsection=myarticle

[Regarding, offensive Jihad. It is basically saying that all the earth must have Islamic (God) ruled governments. God's law must be established. Those that reject it, can pay the jizya.]

His view of Jizya is 'not beyond their capabilities' But for the Khaiber Jews it was 50%.

My current view about Italian or Greek Immigration is 'controlled numbers' not 'none'. I get outright angry when a 3rd generation Aussie of greek background says "I'm so proud to be GREEK" which is blatantly racist.

My view on all immigration is:
Cultural and Religious compatability
Social Cohesian
Political Stability.

NO Multiculturalism, but promote unity, intermarraige and harmony.

Having attended the committal hearing for the 13 suspects in Melbourne twice, I see little possibility for that with them.

Dear *David*

I am told that "In Christ we are assured of Justice," but also that "God helps those who help themSelves."

Let then the political Churches pursue justice by first acknowledging thier own sins & then proactively seeking candidates to prosecute the crown who is argueably guilty of some of the most abhorrrent crimes known to Humanity.

For example, let us go back to pre-world war 2 to the time when the crown played host to an individual who was, very likely, in Spiritual terms, an advocate of the Almighty.

This person, a senior politician hailing from Russia, warned us all of the likely horrors to come for those held in disfavour by the nazis & others like them.

To cut a long story short, with good support from the Unions, a vote was held to garner the opinion of the "good" folk of Australia as to the question of whether or not to re-settle numerous Disabled, Gays, Gypsies and Jews here in Oz. The vast majority of the people gave their unconditional support.

Notwithstanding this, the in my view, dastardly, evil, crown denied the will of the "good folk" and turned the Asylum Seekers away, much as the child abusers in Canberra are doing today.

Perhaps this was in part becoz they feared a legal precedent which could lead to the Original Australians claiming their land back, not to mention the diamonds. The rest as we know is history and a terrible legacy in this part of the world.
ref "An UnPromised Land" by Leon Gettler

Dear Adam
referring to those in Canberra as 'Child abusers' is a bit emotive.
I would not describe them so. To me the true abusers are those who stretch out denied claims for assylum and cause these people to be held in detention for far longer than would normally be required, by continually appealing the process.. they are the true child abusers.

Unions ? my goodness.. when I see how Unions use organized crime tactics and 'extortion' by any other name, and only on BIG soft targets, my stomach turns and I go extra hard on the tricep pull downs. (There is a Labor "organizer" in my gym, and he is about 6'5" tall and quite a brute in look at behavior...was taking to many steroids he eventually had health problems and had to take a different type to combat the impact of the others)

Unions... like the ETU chumming up with the Muslims to run 'anti racism' rallies... which are simply a ploy to gain muslim support for their own socialist agenda.

Not only 'those in Canberra' are the evil running dogs, its at the other end of society also.

have a read of this, it might give some perspective on my own goals.
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/70716
-a quote from it: (Human Rights Court)
[according to the Convention and the case-law of the Turkish courts on constitutional law issues nothing obliged States to tolerate the existence of political parties that sought the destruction of democracy and the rule of law]

If I was in Canberra....I would not allow Muslims into the country on this basis.

My dear compassionate friends,
Is it really necessary to display such vitriol? Each man creates his own God, each man creates his own religion. Some do very well, creating a God that suits their human regime. I wish that for you all.
Saddam Hussein for all his faults maintained a country which was relatively secular.
He died believing in his God and the God of a majority religion on this Earth, 200 million in Indonesia alone. A religion originating in the tennets of Judaism from which sprang both Christianity and Islam.
He didn't call on Islam or Allah to revenge his accusers and if you know your bible, like Jesus on the cross he was mocked.
Saddam Hussein died a believing Muslim and with a great deal of dignity. In defiance of his executioners and mockers.
The secret video did more for him than against him. He stood on the trap-door with the noose arounfd his neck, berated no-one, showing no fear and faced his mockers as he fell to his death.
No man can die in a more manly and courageous way.
His death simply hammers another nail into the coffin of capital punishment which civilised nations and societies have banned.
Will future leaders die with the dignity as Saddam.

The Undertoa