Radio national today had a talk on the Victorian governments intention to have a minister for respect.
Has our education system over looked this.
Do we need more respect, for each other and people who are different.
I believe we do, just go shopping any day see chatting Lady's standing in the middle of the way , hear them tell you to have some manners if you say excuse me may I get past.
In every walk of life SOME of us show no respect for anything or any one.
Two days ago a car was broken down, flat tyer very dangerous spot.
Two kids one of each in early teens and their mum watched me lift my boot and struggle over the road large trolly jack in my arms intent on nothing but getting them going.
All men should understand a woman feels unsure there on a remote road unknown bloke, I did my best to put her at ease, said I will have you on the road in a few minutes and got into it.
Puffed and panted a bit not as Young as I kid myself had her moving in just a short time.
No thanks mate nothing,not from her and in truth not expected of the teenagers they think others exist only for such service, some women please I love them all, think good manners are only for men.
In jumping to help some we create monsters, yes we all need respect.

Belly I agree that the notion of respect has waned along with other desirable characteristics like generosity, compassion and acceptance of responsibilities as well as acknowledgment of rights.

But do we really need a Minister for Respect? I am not sure how one teaches respect. Respect is learned for the most part from example and from consistency in expecations of standards of behaviour - I am not sure when and why it all went a bit South.

Perhaps it stems from the over-emphasis on the self which probably went a little too far in the 80s in an attempt to instil self-confidence and self-esteem.

Materialism, consumerism, capitalism, the corporatisation of the modern world, who knows. In a few years I am sure all those well paid social researchers will have all the answers. :)

Dear Belly,

The Victorian Premier's announcement of
Australia's first 'Minister for Respect,'
is supposedly just one part of a broader
response (according to the Premier) -
to the 'scourge of racism and
alcohol fuelled violence that's hit Victoria.'

The Premier announced the appointment of
former football player Justin Madden
as the 'Minister For Respect,' who
the Premier says will be an ' additional
voice in the community promoting diversity
and racial tolerance.'

This action seems to have been prompted by
the growing number of attacks on Indian students
over the past year. There have been 100 reported
cases of attacks on Indians - (mostley students) in
2009, as against 17 cases in 2008.

The Premier intends to use educational and law
and order approaches to make Victoria a 'safer
place.'

It does all sound a bit like PC gone slightly
mad. But perhaps it may appease the newspapers
and media in India - who knows?

Will it make Victoria a safer place?

I doubt it.

They need a Minister for Silly Walks.

Just thinking though, will the Minister for Respect regard Victoria's legalised discrimination against white males as showing the 'right' sort of respect in their case?

'Respect' could mean different things for different people in Victoria and I can imagine Equal Opportunity Commission CEO Dr Helen Szoke ruling that the said males have 'been the big success story in respect and should have their position changed'. Depending on the target, disrespect might be quite OK and maybe that is what children will learn in Victorian schools.

What does a State that wrote discrimination into law know about respect?

Interesting to view the portfolio of the proposed 'Minister for Respect' in a few years time!

Thanks for the thread Belly. It's a sad and annoying experience to put yourself out like that for people who reciprocate with poor manners. Hope you don't mind if I lay out an assortment of thoughts on the topic:

Minister for Respect - I thought you were joking Foxy! haha!

Very Monty Pythonish:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w

um

I think the notion of respect has gone down the chute a bit. I don't blame schools; I think some parents could do a better job of demonstrating respectful attitudes from which youngsters could learn. For example Belly, the two young lumps should have been asked by their parent to lend a hand and she could have pitched in too. They would have learned some useful skills and some manners as well. She should also have demonstrated some respect by thanking you.

I reckon there are a few factors that have contributed to a lack of respect between people. One is that we live in a hyper critical society. If our children grow up being criticized and hearing others criticized all the time too, they feel entitled to make harsh judgments as they begin to weigh up the world around them and particularly the adults in it.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity/david-beckhams-testicles-grabbed-by-tv-star/story-e6frfmqi-1225822410976

Look at that will ya. Bloody disgraceful and I hope she is being charged for it. Just how women feel when they get grabbed. Interesting to see it happen to a man because most men think (or at least say) that they would LOVE to be somebody's sex object or get a bit of a grope. Well there you go. His face says it all.

cont'd

cont/

Another factor I think is that our culture has never revered age or experience, unfortunately. One saying that I think is particularly idiotic is the "Respect isn't given it's earned." Someone said it years ago and it sounded natty so a few nongs parrot it as if it's meaningful, while actually it's the antithesis of the notion of respect. All humans should be respected as a default position until there is a very good reason to withdraw it.

Otherwise, we have all these arrogant people expecting others to 'earn' their respect - but the criteria by which people are to do that remains a mystery peculiar to each individual doing the judging. It sets up an impossible scenario because everyone can set their own criteria and whether or not anybody is deemed worthy is a very hit and miss affair. Most just won't bother.

Another thing that seems peculiar to me is the way that the word itself 'respect' has lost meaning. Instead of being used in reference to regard or esteem between people, I often hear people say things like, "Sharks [or crocodiles] ... treat them with respect."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocnSGeBLW5s

Is the sentiment likely to be reciprocated - noop. I suspect they mean something like 'awe'. I'm wondering what meanings others derive from the idea of showing respect to creatures like sharks.

How can humans say they respect a shark when they don't in general respect each other? Very odd.

Anyway, a little respect can go a long way. Here's a classic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrV0c9ETnWo&feature=related

Every contribution so far is spot on, pelican and foxy stole my words.
Yes it is PC gone mad, but just maybe needed.
And yes basically it appears to be for India's benefit but again it can not hurt.
Remember respect is something some will never ever understand.
I have no idea what living skills are taught at school today we do teach people about sun cancer a whole host of things right now via media information.
Look at any pedestrian crossing, stand and watch, people car keys in hand sprinting to cross a not light controlled crossing and on getting into the car? nearly running over people on that same crossing.
The minister? waste of money job for the boys but India will be happy, those who understand respect,, and if the outcome is more thought into education for every day life, ok by me.

We've built our society on a lack of respect for the individual and now government thinks we're lacking? The hypocrisy of government is just astounding dontcha think?

I always thought respect was earned not taught?
Perhaps this new minister (another one) could look into respect for the citizens of this nation by our leaders and then things might change!

I respect any, & every one who earns that respect. I even treat everyone with respect, untill I have reason to withdraw that respect.

I can not see how any, [not worthy of my respect], damn fool government expects they can legislate that I WILL RESPECT anyone.

It's this type of stupidity that makes these fool pollies not worthy of ANY respect, from anyone.

Pynchme, "most men think (or at least say) that they would LOVE to be somebody's sex object or get a bit of a grope. "

Exactly and that is why Victoria's Ministry for Respect would find that this was not assault at all and nor could a woman be guilty of disrespecting a white man because they deserve it. Equal Opportunity Commission CEO Dr Helen Szoke would be laughing uproariously over a Scotch and a Cuban cigar in her club.

Nothing Orwellian about the Ministry for Respect (much) and the next cab off the rank is the Ministry for Peace.

BTW, I don't think that men are so much different from women in that both would like to be considered 'hot' by the opposite gender and both men and women would like to be treated as a sex god or goddess and fondled. The provisos however and they are the same for men and women are choice and permission - it has to be someone you would like doing it and at a time and place that suits.

I cannot imagine that Ms Di Cioccio's stunt was conceived for any other purpose than to humiliate Beckham. The real story is that she thought she would get away with it because she was a women and that is not something that would amuse liberated women.

What a ex-Essendon player wanting respect, he should have played for Collingwood then.
Ok, respect does equal fear doesn't it.

I wonder what the Minister for Respect is going to do about the waiting queues at hospitals or the chronic lack of support for youth in crisis?

Why don't they just have a Minister for Spin and forget about it! But wait, they are all Ministers for Spin. Ooops, now officers from the Department of Respect will be around to kick in my door to cart me off to the pokey for disrespecting the government.

George Orwell this is all your fault.

If the ministers only task is to teach respect it must be good.
A recent death on a beach is one I know about wild seas most of the time.
Sharks take fish of your line ten feet out, no place to swim ever.
never patrolled never safe.
I have fished for years there seen sharks cutting my tailor in half, watch in fear as holidaying mums and dads let the kids swim, tell them please get them out, to be told we are beach goers it is OK.
Young drivers die in numbers too big to think of each year, see they do not respect safe drivers, fail to understand we all can speed some faster than them, lack of respect kills.
yes it seems strange but we educate about smoking a whole host of things do we educate about day to day living?

Pynchme: you have made a factual point here; although my daughter's generation do not seem as critical as our generation [for obvious reasons]; it is my daughter who pulls me up on occasion when I fire up on the odd moral and value issues pertaining to other adults in my generation. Her friends and selves would never have just stood aside and allowed a man to sweat it out changing their tyre. They would indeed assist..AND...they would have offered to buy a case of beer for him as I did when two harley davidson guys gave me a lift when stranded with my mountain bike one hot summers day being attacked by a large unrelenting magpie pecking me.

I'd go for a 50% figure of the population exhibiting the ungrateful disrespectful behaviour. How do I estimate? Look at the old door opening scenario anywhere around Australia. How many people actually bother saying thank you or nodding their head in acknowledgement or appreciation. Such a simple trivial little acknowledgement.

How many people actually slow down or stop for a person with a significant limp or blind person? Out of 10 or 15 cars generously spaced well apart to slow down; one vehicle did so recently to allow a guy with a shocking limp stagger across a 60km suburban road. He turned and waved and smiled. My heart melted. It should have been me happily waving and smiling at him. How the hell would those families enjoy going through what this man endures daily putting in a walking effort? THAT is the key question people really need to ask themselves. One day, they may well find themselves in a disabled situation as we all know. Having said all of this, I am at times guilty of disrespect towards different people. Am honest and working on it

we are unique I agree with your every word.
And I note others are using the word respect in other threads.
IF we can get over the minister, if we can focus on why Victoria did it.
And given recent events including another incident with arrests this time, it seems needed to me.
Given the possible impact on that states income, and reputation, it can not harm them.
And who can say some do not need to learn respect.
We have ministers for sport so many ministers, it is the roll of a manager/minister to drive his/her needed outcome.
One mans weekend, mine three young teenage girls standing across the whole doorway of the do it your self big shed.
Me struggling with an armful including a heavy object .
Quote, excuse please young Lady's, answer how rude?
me get out of the doorway thanks[calmly have a nice Aussie day.
young miss rudes? build a bridge and get over it.
I will not be changing tyers for that self centered mob, well not true men of my age mostly will always jump in to help any one, but not all of us.
life skills are needed and respect for others, at least as much as we have for our selves can not hurt.

One of the flaws that I see in Australia is that there is too much respect for authority. People give too much credence to what the government, the church or other authority figures tell them. They don't question enough.

We need less of that kind of respect if we are to have a functioning democracy.

david f

Next you will be asking people to think for themselves and to take some responsibility for their own decisions.

A slippery slope towards (horror of horrors) taking care of themselves and modelling the behaviour they would like to see in others.

However that would all be against the trend towards the establishment of the Nanny State of Victoria. New flag to have large pink boob on it, tattooed "The Guvermint Always Knows What's Best for You".

Not sure I agree with that assessment totally davidf.

Australians have become more cynical and disrespectful of authority over the years and certainly more politically cynical. What we don't do enough of is put those thoughts into lawful actions.

We don't take to the streets or create a ruckus or form action groups when large numbers of individuals feel strongly about an issue. GetUp is probably the most recent example of Australians coming together when the policies of the previous government met the final-straw test.

No matter what you think of GetUp or even Peter Spencer, at least there are some people prepared to stand up to what they perceive as unfair policies.

While most Australians I know did not agree with the invasion of Iraq where were the street demonstrations and mass protests? While it was not exactly a parallel to Vietnam (no conscription) the politics and motivations were similar. Have we become too apathetic or are we just too comfortable? Are we more insular because much of our communication takes place online? Or is that a good way for information to be disseminated? Or is it more disinformation and opinion than fact?

Dear Pelican,

You asked where were the demonstrations against the war in Iraq. There were large demonstrations. I participated in one in Brisbane. That goes against my statement of Australians having too much respect for authority. However, the truth is more important than my statement. In that issue there were a large number of Australians, English and Americans questioning.

Blair lied about Hussein's WMDs being ready in 45 minutes, Bush lied about Hussein's connection with Al Qaeda, his attempt to purchase yellowcake and his WMDs and Howard lied about Australian troops being in Iraq two months before the invasion.

Those liars ignored the protests in all three countries.

I heartily agree david. It was truly a failure of duty of care to commit countries to war over a well orchestrated and vested-interest lie.

True there were some protests, but not on the same scale as the Vietnam protests, even though our populations are much larger.

I am not saying there are no protesters left, but they are fewer in numbers.

I agree with you that there needs to be more action on issues like Iraq - but as you say Western governments went ahead regardless of public opinion. The cynicism is there and well fertilised by current style of government but the oomph has gone - but I think we are getting it back. Americans proved as much by voting out the Conservatives as did the Aussies.

There will still be a battle to forge against the strength of large corporates who profit by war but the motivation and desire is there.

Dear Pelican,

The protests against Iraq were quite large especially since they were against a war that hadn't started but was only contemplated. As I remember the protests against Vietnam did not become large in the US where I was at the time until numbers of Americans started coming home in boxes. The protests at the beginning were small.

I wanted to appear dignified in my protest against our actions in Vietnam so I walked in front of the army recruiting office in Philadelphia wearing a tailor made three piece suit and carrying a sign against the war. This incensed a man wearing a similar suit and a briefcase who ran up to me, spit in my face and bellowed, "War is the health of the state."

The Tonkin Gulf Resolution which authorised LBJ to increase the forces in Vietnam was based on the lie that the US Navy was attacked in international waters.

Pelican, I can see what David f was getting at.
There is a reason why people seem less likely to create a ruckus. Western governments have of late become very adept at imposing a fear-based reign of control on the populace.
British writer, Tom Hodgkinson, in his book "How To Be Free" sums it up well:
"...Anxiety suits the status quo very well. Anxious people make good consumers and good workers...Anxiety will drive us back into our comfort blankets of credit-card shopping and bad food, so the system deliberately produces anxiety while simultaneously promising to take it away...we are told we are in a perpetual state of war. We (in Britain) are no longer at war with the IRA, we are at war with Al-Qaeda. Different enemy,same anxiety and the same end result: mass powerlessness."

Too much respect for authority? now hang on in truth not being able to fill the streets for demonstrations is no measure.
Apathy and just plain lack of interest is a likely reason.
Iraq? long way from Victoria and nothing to do with the thread.
Never say every one is the same on any subject, this granny state thing for a start.
Some of the criminals who have bought this about would not know the difference between some one from India and an Apache.
Some will be well educated some unable to read or write.
Lets say we do not want to be a granny state, ok lets stop adds that warn of surfing in a rip, or smoking, sun cancer, life be in it stuff, surely they know already.
Let us save a few bob on needless road signs like keep left or speed limits we do not want to give the idea it matters do we?

There are sufficient laws in place to deal with criminals we do not need thought and attitude police. We have too many lawyers as politicians who only see law enforcement as population control.

Respect is something we learn from parents and adult models. Certain male cultures breed disrespect because they learn these offensive attitudes from their fathers. Self control is the highest form of self respect. Teach children self respect and pride in enhancing another's life. This happens from within and is not oppressive, whereas law enforcement is from without and by its nature fails to build respect. Any self respecting person will respect all comers.

Come on Philo, are you saying good people respect bad ones have the police to contend with?
Few cops have true respect unless it is for them selves.
We should get the politics out of the debate.
Is mutual respect a good thing.
If you say yes do we all have it.
Thought police, not sure I think that is what is proposed have you ever thought some one needs to learn respect.
What is so bad about learning to live together and better.

the outworking of the idiotic belief that we got here by chance results is little to no respect. If their is no Creator respect is nothing short of ludicrous. That is why you see the most disrespectful citizens those who worship the creation (rather than the Creator). A number who write on OLO fall into that category. They have rebellion and hate written towards their Maker in every second word.

Runner, your ignorance of evolution is profound. If you had studied to high school level, you would understand that your use of the term "chance result" reveals two things. First: you only read about it in old fundy pamphlets, and two: Your opinions about it are contemptible.

Do try harder and stop conflating topics with your (very) few tired old hobby horses.

Who created your supposed god by the way?

Rusty

I think runner you need more respect, for your self, your God, and those you impose your quaint ideas in threads that have zero to do with your beliefs.
I have considered the stated opinions this thread is about thought police.
While we all know what in fact is about we too easily put tags like that on subjects ,then run with it.
What proposed law tells anyone how to think.
What penalty's are proposed.
who monitors who.
No simplistic lurch away from reality no thought control no big brother just one basic idea.
by the way one that will not work, we give evidence here in this thread it can not.
Respect for others, thoughts opinions, ideas race, looks.
We put so many different views forward as evidence we or some of us, do not consider respect a good out come.

Belly tell us what role a respect Minister would have and what are their powers? You say take the politics out of this subject yet what do you imagine a Minister for respect is?

What were you on when you wrote this? "Come on Philo, are you saying good people respect bad ones have the police to contend with?"

The only way to change society by introducing a Minister for respect is for the Minister to introduce laws that enforce attitude and thought control - ie brainwashing. This was the method of Hitler, The Taliban, Russian Communists and Mao with his little red book.

Queen Victoria introduced into schools a subject called manners or social etiquite where children were taught to bow, don hats etc etc all in an attempt to teach respect. This generation finds this artificial and hides the real character of the person. A swarve man can be underneath a real charlitan etc etc. Prim and proper people can have hearts of stone. I say "Do unto others what you would desire they do to you". When one can truly respect themself they will desire to respect others. This is the principle of divine thought.

Poirot and david
I am not in disagreement with your POV.

The biggest way governments have dampened dissent (probalby not deliberately with that purpose) is fear, not of the terrorist variety, but the financial type. Housing affordability, rental costs and debt is a huge burden, one that generally does not encourage legitimate discourse or ruckus, people are far too preoccupied with paying off a mortgage or paying for rent/food/school etc.

Individuals need to recognise this themselves and get out of the consumerism cycle, but meantime many on low incomes are finding it difficult, even without luxury items on the shopping list.

Philo, that was a limp wrist-ed insult what was I on?
Sure you do not want to add the child like build a bridge and get over it.
What evidence do have any minister in any past or present Australian government, in any portfolio used brain washing in any form.
Who told you we live in Soviet Russia.
Or communist China.
Come Philo do you truly hold the view any one ever intended to use this band aid on society as a weapon against its people.
Do you have nightmares about waking up in Nazi Germany?
RESPECT strange that such a word has launched so many fears.
We have had ministers for almost every thing, this window dressing has seen an ex footballer who you seem to think has the task of brain washing us.
If the only outcome is more education for life, for every day mixing with others, for understanding while some groups may not please you respect is worthwhile, we will all be better for it.
What am I on Philo? reality it is hard for some to take but a great trip, try it.

"modern" civilisation is in decline - the signs are all around us - and declining standards in personal integrity is just another part of it.

spinner quite true for some, far too many, but not all of us.

Is that because we have been over populated by third world countries, superstitious world views and governed by dictators who supress individual freedoms?

Philo wrote: "Is that because we have been over populated by third world countries, superstitious world views and governed by dictators who supress individual freedoms?"

Dear Philo,

Let's have a little tolerance. Christianity is a superstitious world view. Many Christians make up the population of the third world. Dictators such as Franco have based their dictatorship upon their Christianity.

However, I believe that, in spite of their support for dictators and the superstition of Creationism Christians are human beings who can be shown the error of their ways, are susceptible to enlightenment clearing away the superstition that beclouds them and open to the possibility of being fully human. Christians should have full civil rights and treated in every way as equal to other human beings.

Philo I have said here many times I once was a Christian.
I searched for better things for humanity.
And that I no longer am.
But time after time say openly ,if you fall in the street it will be a Christian that picks you up
Within that group, every such group, no exceptions every God, you will find the best humanity has to offer.
Such groups every one no exceptions contain the very worst in mankind.
What book of religion did you read that blamed other cultures for lack of respect.
Tell me, yes I know the Jews are your Gods chosen people, did Jesus condemn whole nations because they are different.
Seems a waste for a fella working so hard no lunch breaks or anything to make so many only to condemn them.
Philo are you sure you have respect?
Are you truly convinced your God thinks as you do?

Belly baby, sorry been a long time getting back to you.

Respect is an interesting topic. We make a hundred little choices everyday about who we give it to, who we demand it from and who we decide are worthy of both. Along with how deserving we are of this very hard to define concept that varies from culture to culture.

Is a child intitled to respect or is it an adult concept?

I've been busy Belly but they won. They hurt more kids and they showed me just how little respect is given to anyone that will place a child as a priority in our Australian culture.

Look out because now I am cross. What is the opposite of respect Belly? Disrepect seems more of a verb describing a single action.

When you decide someone is due no respect whatsoever there must be a label for it. We never had enough words for snow, we probably don't have one for this.

Piper you little sniper, come back!