new wave
of migrants brought the "fear of the unknown.
Foxy,
I'm afraid your attempt to frivolize the concerns of those who care are a generation too late. There is no fear of the unknown, we know ! We have seen the evidence since '72.
As for the flag & not being allowed to discuss the issue ? The issue here is not the discussion, the issue is the needlessness & apparent lack of discussion for those whose issues are of far far greater need than a mere flag. Are the pro flaggers as passionate in matters of pensioners or other needy ? What about a discussion of putting a stop to the stupidifying of intelligent children ? How about a passionate discussion on issues of daily life for the victims of insane bureaucracy & corrupt but protected Superannuation company bosses etc. etc.

Dear Individual,

I'm sorry if I don't appear to share your
passion or depth of feeling but I don't
understand what it is exactly that you
claim when you say, "We know!"
On whose behalf are you speaking and what
or who exactly,- do you know?

Actually I'm not trying to trivialize the issues -
I'm merely attempting to stay on topic - which is
the Australian Flag. However, seeing as you've
brought up all these other issues that are of
concern to you - why don't you start your own
threads on some of them - as they really are
too numerous to deal with on this one and I'm
sure that CJ would appreciate our not de-railing
his thread.

Anyway, isn't it great that we can all be proud of
the Australian way of life - a classless society
where everyone is given a fair go regardless of
race, colour or creed. Because if we looked back
historically to the 1950s - as Mr Howard wanted us
to do - we'd have - only white faces as far as the
eyes could see. But today, the NIMBY attitude (not
in my backyard) exists with only a small minority.
Is that what you know?

We (those who care) are concerned at the acceleration of the trend of disregard, lack of integrity & selfishness over the past 35 years hence we know what's to come. The dissatisfaction with the present flag is part of this trend. It is deeply entwined with the attitude that effort & responsibility should be everybody else's. This idea that all we have at our fingertips is a natural entitlement. All of today's priviledges are in fact born of the efforts by those who who did all of it under this flag. They did this to build a better life for the next generation of Australians not to have their efforts condemned by those who have no idea about effort. Those who condemn the NIMBY attitude but keep remarkably stumm when the NIMBY attitude is of non-caucasian source. I personally don't give a hoot about this nonsensical colour drivel but what other choice of retort is there to such an accusation. What I am greatly concerned about is the ATTITUDE of people not what they're born as, especially under this flag..

Foxy, "if we looked back historically to the 1950s ..... we'd have - only white faces as far as the eyes could see. But today, the NIMBY attitude (not in my backyard) exists with only a small minority."

That is absolute garbage and a terrible insult to Australia.

WW2 disrupted the lives of millions in Europe and there was a flood of displaced people, many of whom had lost everything, including their families. It was in response to this tidal wave of lost and needy people that Australia had its first boom in immigration to its shores. I will not go on further except to note that by 1950, 200,000 migrants had arrived, but I hope you will read this link and realise how insulting your inference was:

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/04fifty.htm

You might cherry-pick instances to damn some people for their attitudes but it is churlish to disregard the very real and honest attempt by Australia to take as many migrants as possible from war-torn Europe.

In fact it was the resolve and enthusiasm to come to the aid of displaced people and refugees that gave rise to most of the problems cited by migrants - coming from highly sophisticated European cities, migrants found Australia primitive, ill-equiped and lacking the basics like transport and entertainment (theatres, music halls, opera). Australia simply didn't have the infrastructure (sound familiar), Australians themselves were poor, rationed, lacked housing and industry and had to 'make do'. They didn't miss what they never had, but they were often looked down on by European migrants for their lack of 'culture'.

Australian of the Fifties did a sterling job in taking migrants and your quip about 'white faces' and 'NIMBY' was factually incorrect and unnecessary.

Foxy, was it you who once said that your own parents fled Europe (Lithuania?) at some time? What conflict was that?

Since no aboriginal flag existed prior to colonisation, and there were hundreds of different aboriginal identities, surely the aboriginal flag is of itself a colonial development?

The Union Jack means exactly that; a union of three nations England, Ireland and Scotland in one cultural heritage. It is from that cultural heritage Australia its government, institutions and laws were established, settled and developed. Our flag reprersents our union with a culture of freedom, service, mutual intergration and coperation.

Our universal culture is not founded in an aboriginal way of life, nor is it based on the laws of various sports.

Grasp what are the sources of our culture before any flag is flown representing the basis of Australian culture.