All , clearly you take your fantasies far too seriously, nothing you have said is true.I will tred carefully here I will not take you up on this as you appear delusional to a point where I suspect you suffer mental illness and appear to be in a delicate state of mind. Have a nice day :)

All, if the book of Enoch does include a description of the shape of the earth it reinforces another point in this discussion.

The lengths that many religious people go to in defending ideas supposedly because of their belief in the literal nature of the bible even when the bible says something quite different.

A belief that the bible indicated that the earth was flat was defended very vigorously based on one section of the bible regardless of what science was showing and apparently in contradiction to what is said elsewhere.

That scenario sounds somewhat familiar.

R0bert

I do have my moments of Infamy West, But indeed to suggest that others are delusional when you bleightantally discuss an Absurdity to then try to apply credibility by elusion, you sound like a Noam Chomsky Graduate and a very amateur con Artist.

If this means I am in a fantasy land and delusional West; then so be it. I have a chance!

I didn’t write it Robert, but if it is an ancient manuscript and history journal, then surely it must be worthy as a reference. Even if you do not agree with it!
And be careful not to trip over the International date line, or it will be you who will be the One man space station. It would be difficult to explain the physics with West’s theory, but let him fill in the blanks.

The problem West has is that he cannot prove there is NO intelligent or logical order in the universe. However it is by observation we conclude order and design in our universe. Even in evolution there is supposed order and design as the basic principle of the theory. He cannot accept a principle of design or order.

I am an engineer and recognise chemical and matters of physics must be adhered to in creation of structures. My mind tells me so by the history of my experience. They are not so by my thinking them so, they are so, so I think and take them into account.

West only has his own irrational mind to conclude there is no design or order in chemistry and physics it is all based in irrational and illogical happenings in the Universe. His position is not based in observation but on what others have told him to be true and he accepts them as true. The logical and wise conclusion of the human mind account for the reality. The reality is we must recognise design and intelligence in our chemical and physics; our human intelligence concludes that is wisdom.

Has anyone here read this debate, originally published in the Sydney Morning Herald?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/aus_skeptics_vs_aig.pdf

Philo and I guess ‘All’ Your argument supporting ID is that you want to believe in a magical being that runs the universe like a clock but now that evolution has been discovered square pegs can fit into round holes if you warp perception to make it seem so. You are saying if you squint hard enough you can see Jesus in the tea leaves. Obviously you have no grasp on the rational Philo even if you consider that being an engineer gives you the capacity to claim your fantasies are logical on the basis of your say so, the reality is you are still left with superstition or have you proved both god and magic exist?

I thought not. Like all has demonstrated ID is fabrication dependent. The empty rhetoric that one cannot prove UFO’s or God do not exist is not rational as it puts the cart before the horse. “Ah” says the god believer but nothing truly can be proven, the curve of the earth is only a philosophy there is no real science. So thus the possible reality of god is exterminated by his own worshipper.

Attack me for neither accepting your fantasy nor sympathising with your frustrations at the heathens rejecting your fairytales Philo. Boasting about your career is not impressive nor does it demonstrate you have any grasp of logic or rational argument. You spin terribly for you failed to conceal your neglect of that essential point of your argument, proof of both god and the magic he facilitates ID with. Without such you are only inviting ridicule with your new age cultist notions.

Like God and Jesus and ID and the magical kingdom of heaven in your mind the world is flat. Don’t be so shocked that its so ridiculous in the real dimension.

YngNluvnt the amazing thing is the ID arguement is futile. ID is the emporers new clothes all over again.