Antonis - I agree.

TheMissus - your comment is very insightful and again I agree.

For my part as I've said, I agree with abolishing the citizenship test - BUT there should instead be a compulsory Citizenship Education program which in the primary instance aims to teach migrants IN THEIR NATIVE TONGUE the things which can be considered "essentials" - ie. some background on Australia's history, the geography of the place (this includes how our industry and population is all situated etc. - not just where Uluru is), how our government works, how our legal system works (INCLUDING A BROAD UNDERSTANDING OF OUR LAWS) and how general societal values here work. A citizenship test should not be required, but certificates indicating satisfactory completion of the Citizenship Education Program should be a prerequisite.

The program could be offered for study externally - so migrants could indeed land already "qualified" for being here and the process might well hopefully even provide some insight into what it is to live in Australia before migrants even leave their home soil - some might well decide it's not their cup of tea when they realise that simply holding a paid-for degree from their own national university won't mean they'll be an executive running some sweat shop textile mill within a few months of arrival (I have FIRST HAND experience of someone who had exactly that sort of notion).

Spinner
When and how refugees will take the"certificate"?
What will happen with migrants of family reunion programs? will we block a wife to come to Australia because she does not have the "certificate"?
Can we tell an Australian husband " no wife for you because she does not know Australian history?"
Are we sure that Australian citizens can pass a test for the "certificate"? If not then why we block a wife or a child to rejoin with her husband or his father when many Australians can not pass the test for the "certificate"?
Are we sure that if a migrant pass the citizenship test or take the "certificate" he/she will respect, protect and promote our values? There is a huge difference between I know something and I respect and follow it in my every day life, that it have became part of my life.
The democracy starts from very early, from our home, and its principles became part of our character, part of our life.
Can we teach the remnants of white Australia to respect non Anglo Australians when they learned and accepted that we are second class citizens, second class employees?
We want the refugees to pass the citizenship tests but we do not care if the mass media, which create and control the public opinion and Australian values, have controlled from a small number of tycoons , that they are used as propaganda machines according to tycoons benefits and goals, that our democracy is captured from them.
For me the citizenship certificate brings migrants and especially refugees closer to the mainstream, they feel secure and bond easier with the rest of Australians, their children grow up in a better, happier environment and they will become better Australians.
The citizenship certificate is a welcome to migrants, that they are not alone, a guarantee that we really care for them, that they are part of our self, part of the GREAT AUSTRALIA
Antonis Symeonakis
Adelaide

Antonis, you've misunderstood me!

- I'm describing completion of the Citizenship Education Program simply as a requirement for naturalisation - NOT AS A REQUIREMENT FOR IMMIGRANT ENTRY!!

This discussion is about getting rid of the Citizenship Test as part of the requirement for citizenship - I'm saying yes, get rid of the test but have an education program instead. The sort of information I'm proposing is factual - not the kind of information that can be slanted politically - how can you politically slant showing a map and describing where the main geographical features and cities are and what the industries are that each city supports etc.?

And when I talk of completion certificate I'm saying that there shouldn't be a requirement to have "passed" the program - simply that the person has attended the whole program. It's arguable whether there should be a requirement to have "satisfactorily" completed the program - ie. have some level of assessment even if it's just the opinion of the instructor as to whether the subject has understood the information - but I don't think that's necessary if the program itself is designed properly and is presented in the native language of the subject.