The Forum > General Discussion > The Tragedy of Haiti
The Tragedy of Haiti
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Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 16 January 2010 11:10:35 AM
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Poirot, yes indeed, the earthquake in Haiti is a very sad story.
It sounds like the US, as a direct neighbour, will do all it can to assist. Many other countries have agreed to give a hand too. As to you blaming globalistation etc for all that poverty, you have claimed that before on another thread. I read the link at the time, but was too busy at work to respond. In fact just yesterday, I heard on the radio that the World Bank had forgiven 1 billion $ of Haiti's debts last year. Your link was a mumbo jumbo confusion of politics/economics, rather then a proper analysis. Fact is that globalisation/ trade has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty. Agriculatural subsidies/dumping of agricultural products by the US/EU has little to do with economics, everything to do with politics. Politicians in those countries want to buy their seats and stay in office, they do it by buying votes. Not only third world farmers suffer from all that dumping, Aussie farmers suffer too. Don't blame globalisation for that, blame rich country politicians. Haiti has other problems. For a start, one of the highest birthrates on the planet. 5 kids on average, only a small % use modern family planning (its a Catholic country), so they breed like rabbits. They wont' get out of poverty whilst they do that. http://newsecuritybeat.blogspot.com/2009/04/hardship-in-haiti-family-planning-and.html . Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 16 January 2010 2:27:44 PM
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Yabby,
You are correct that the IMF and the World Bank cancelled some of Haiti's debt last year. A program that was implemented around 1997 for Heavily Indebted Poor Countries, or HIPC, saw fit to omit Haiti until 2006, and then made it jump through years of macroeconomic reform hoops and structural reforms before finally cancelling around two thirds of its debt last year. Debt accrued after 2004 was not cancelled. The following links offer further analysis of Haiti's road to debt relief and IMF and World Bank programs for debt relief. http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/haiti.debt.relief.2007.12.pdf http://www.globalissues.org/article/3/structural-adjustment-a-major-cause-of-poverty Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 17 January 2010 2:29:58 AM
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Apologies - here is the first link above again.
http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/haiti_debt_relief_2007_12.pdf Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 17 January 2010 2:41:46 AM
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What I would like to know is if anyone keeps tabs on which countries are giving aid, either physical or monetary.
I know we are and others have been mentioned. The USA is giving a lot, as they do in other catastrophes, France, Canada, Caribean nations, Brazil, Japan, China, are some I have heard of. What about other nations? There could be many I have missed but why do we not hear. What about the oil rich countries, do they not give aid to others or do we not hear and if we do not hear, why? Last night I googled the Tele in UK and there was no mention of them giving aid, but an appeal is underway so people can give. In all the stories about Haiti there was no mention of UK government aid. Can anyone provide information on the above matters? Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 17 January 2010 8:30:39 AM
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there has been/trade embargo's.. on the hate-ians..
and massive payments to the former french colinisers...to buy back their freedom.. but slaves they are...and slaves they shall remain... as ever new masters control their shattles/slaves/fiefdoms/franchise we have here..a perfect egsample of colinisations fruits... here..the un was in charge... it has been run as a personal fiefdom..for hundreds of years...this same thing is occuring globally... welcome to your kids future we are run by international banking cartels...who have looted a nations rights to create it's own money/intrest free..and made govts lend from the ursurors..at intrest... this nessitates ever increasing taxes..on the people/ mainly the poor...as the rich/foreigners dont pay taxes...indeed can leverage tax egsemptions..to attract industry../read pitance labour/workers/rent paying/pay-as you earn/wage-slaves its a lovelly system... you install a constitution...that forms a govt.. [the constitution is supposed to regulate trade/commerce..government powers...laws..by which THEY.. will be bound..BUT..thanks to clever lawyers..calling us persons/..put us../..under their acts [but its a lie]..a constitution/binds those..who seek govt constituted advantages/under the act/under the con....not its people...but..thats where lawyers come in.. [most polititions are..or were lawyers... they empower thugs/to police/statuted..incomerevenue..producing laws...that are enforced by thugs..loving to abuse others[police/soldiers]...beuro-roc-rats..[on huge pensions].. or ngo-s/diplo-mats...who control outside spending..on temporary assistance/...keeping their..cash/only..please..in house..but creating obligation's..and..permanent bondage.. and in time..a failing fiefdom..then the coliniser hides behind the law[and trade embargo's]..or takes their pension/offshore...lol via lawyer's.../now judges..who judge statuted-crime..by threat and force/deception..get it yet? http://www.worldfreemansociety.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1327 Posted by one under god, Sunday, 17 January 2010 8:45:15 AM
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Banjo,
Here is a link to guardian.co.uk where you will find a list of donor countries. The World Bank is also listed as contributing, although it is supplying an emergency loan and not a donation. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jan/14/haiti-quake-aid-pledges-country-donations Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 17 January 2010 10:28:25 AM
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Poirot, I read your links.
Haiti's problems are far greater then the "evil capitalists/world bank/IMF" In the past, the country has been given huge amounts of aid, but the fact remains that a country can't go from poverty to prosperity, based on charity donations. Tourism is a great industry for the West Indies, not so for Haiti, because with so much crime and lawlessness, tourists stay away, not willing to be mugged as part of their holidays. Prosperty is not a god given right, its an opportunity for those who want to take it and there is enough evidence that it can be achieved with sound economic and legal policies. Without capital investment, it simply won't happen and people won't invest, if there is no functioning rule of law, or if their assets are likely to be expropriated or stolen. Rather then blaming those "evil capitalists" for everything, perhaps you should ask yourself why other countries in the West Indies are doing quite well in comparison to Haiti. Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 17 January 2010 2:16:35 PM
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Poirot,
Thanks for that link, I will check again later to see if is being updated. It is now about 5 days since the quake and I notice an absense of many countries, including the oil rich countries such as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. if small countries such as NZ, Belgum and Sth Korea can give aid, I wonder why others do not. Worth noting. Posted by Banjo, Sunday, 17 January 2010 3:00:54 PM
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Yabby,
The following link (my last on this subject, I promise) may provide further insight into Haiti's struggles for self-determination. A comparison between Haiti and other Caribbean nations should take into account the amount of intervention that has been thrust upon the Haitian people. http://soc.hfac.uh.edu/artman/publish/article_94.shtml Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 17 January 2010 4:57:35 PM
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Poirot, I read your link, which sounds to me that it is more
about your own political viewpoint, then anything else. So I found a more objective source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti Parts of Port-au-Prince are considered the "most dangerous place on earth". After reading the wiki history, I can only conclude that whilst many nations did indeed interfere in Haiti affairs, much of their poverty is in fact self inflicted. Most of the trees were cut down as firewood, for an ever increasing population. Perhaps some real family planning is long overdue in Haiti and if in future their violence continues as in the past, it will remain a disfunctional and poverty stricken country. All very sad but true. Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 17 January 2010 5:50:21 PM
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Dear Poirot,
I read an interesting article on Haiti - in this Saturday's, (16th January, 2010) Insight section, of Melbourne's - The Age, newspaper, written by Jon Henley. In it he describes how the country and its capital city 'find themselves straddling the major fault line between North America and Caribbean tectonic plates'. And if that's not enough Haiti is also ' positioned plumb on the region's principal hurricane track,' which in consecutive years has not only killed people but devastated 70 percent of Haiti's agricultural land. Haiti has also - fallen victim to calamitous flooding in 2002, 2003, (twice), 2006 and 2007. Haiti is apparently a country which is a constant and heart-rending site of recurring catastrophe. Alex von Tunzelmann, a historian and writer working on a book about Haiti, says: "Haiti has had slavery, revolution, debt, deforestation, corruption, exploitation, and violence... Now it has poverty, illiteracy, overcrowding, no infrastructure, environmental disaster and large areas without the rule of law." And that was before the earthquake. As Jon Henley points out - " This is a catastrophe beyond our worst imagination." Unfortunately nobody is coming up with what's to be done to solve the problem of Haiti. All we're being told is that Haiti is impacted by natural disasters much more than some of its neighbours - that the infrastructure is so poor that the Government can't control all its territory - but no one is suggesting ways to improve things. The title of your thread Poirot is very apt - it is very much - 'The Tragedy of Haiti.' Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 17 January 2010 5:51:05 PM
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Dear Foxy,
Thank you for summing up so eloquently. As always, you manage to inject a little balance into the discussion. Posted by Poirot, Monday, 18 January 2010 8:27:16 AM
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My colleagues at the Sahana Software Foundation have created the "Haiti 2010 Sahana Disaster Response Portal", with feeds from relief agencies and software to help coordinate the relief effort for the earthquake: http://haiti.sahanafoundation.org/
Sahana is an free open source disaster management system originally set up by the Sri Lanka government and IT industry after the Indian Ocean tsunami. Posted by tomw, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 8:13:29 AM
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You can see it right here. Australia is not Melbourne and Sydney. They ignore the plunder of their own lands. Foreign companies polluting Indigenous soil, invading Indigenous lands and leaving behind a trail of poverty. If Australia is to be responsible for the welfare of traditional owners then we must ban foreign ownership of our resources and allow more of the riches to flow through to their communities.
If we cannot see it here then we will surely be blind to same fate of others. The current economy is not based where the money is, it is remotely controlled from major cities well distanced away with all the comforts indecency allows. Posted by TheMissus, Friday, 22 January 2010 5:15:54 PM
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Tremendous loss of life is expected as the quake decimated the poorly constructed buildings of the capital Port-Au Prince and the rambling shanty towns that spread across the city's hills.
80 percent of the population that inhabited the devastated area before the earthquake, lived in absolute poverty. Recent threads on OLO have alluded to the desperate plight of Haitians and the terrible toll that globalization has exacted upon this nation.
Organizations such as the IMF, WTO and the World Bank - to name a few - have been chipping away for years at Haitian self-sufficiency and self-determination.
Haiti's experience as the victim of globalization's absolute indifference to the interests of developing nations is stark indeed.
As the recipient of various loans from the above organizations, Haiti has been forced to open up its markets and become competitive with richer nations. As a result, its pig, rice and sugar industries have been destroyed.
Years of interference have also resulted in deforestation on a massive scale, loss of habitat and bio-diversity leading to a consequent inability for locals to support themselves in even the most basic of subsistence techniques.
The poor and dispossessed have simply migrated to the capital and hopelessness.
In the wake of the earthquake, many will watch intently to see if some modicum of autonomy and pride can be restored to the Haitian people - they won't be holding their breath.