Despite Pericles' and Col's attempts to steer the debate away from the idea that people in positions of power could possibly use their power to their own advantage, it's pretty obvious to the ordinary worker - not the ordinary socialist - that it happens all the time. Funny who supports the status quo in these debates.

>>Somehow, as a libertarian, who supports the values of democracy and universal suffrage, I find such notions grossly offensive.<<

Give it a rest, Col. I'm heartily sick of your straw man arguments where you paint anyone with a different opinion than you as a socialist swill.

The opening post was about the way people with talent and power use it to maximise outcomes for themselves. How about addressing THAT issue for a change?

Similiar in theory to the Democracy thread. More in tune though is that the perceived "white" working class are now looked down on as bogans, rednecks, yobbos, idiots though some still maintain some personality to their credit. Whatever did happen to personality? Seems to be a social ill to have one these days.! Anyways I digress.

However come election time these ferals suddenly morph into Howard battlers or Rudd working families because a few votes are required.

The irony is they probably earn more than the uni graduate, the teacher and many accountants. Especially the few left with union membership, rich mans world lol. Often financially disadvantaged are the working single mothers, the immigrants with useless degrees, Indigenous, the older worker, the young hopeful and of course old age pensioner.

Multiculturalism and the eternal victim industry have ensured these groups do not organise and rise up as a whole. the "elite"" have embraced a divide and conquor strategy, probably not consciensly but effectively in any case.

It is a shame on many levels but also as a result of the university system churning out brainwashed robotic corporate slaves and removing all traces of individuality, Australia is becoming dead boring. What happens when robots that can only operate with graphs, polls, numbers and computers rather than humanity run the show.

pelican, "It is interesting that MPs superannuation is not linked to CPI.."

That is as good an example of elitism as one could get. The pollies, especially on the conservative side, have often referred to themselves as the 'masters' and the public servants as their 'servants' when justifying their (politicians') wage rises. The argument was that the masters should not be paid less than their servants - forgetting of course that the pollies were comparing themselves with the Senior Executive Service of the APS and they were not including their allowances and other benefits.

The elitism is especially noticeable in superannuation where the masters have indexation based on AWE, thus ensuring it maintains their standard of living, whereas the servants' super is indexed against the heavily discounted CPI, ensuring that their spending power diminishes in real terms year by year.

oscar the grouch,

Why not have a separate thread for Dr Harry Wirth and the RSPCA? There seems to be a lot of criticism of the $$ spent on publicity, allegations of bullyboy tactics and concern and confusion about the right to enter property and seize goods.

Dear Oscar,

Social institutions tend to reflect the
interests of those who control the economy
rather than the interests of those who don't.
In any society, therefore, the laws tend to
protect the rich, not the poor.

Governments uphold the
status quo, rather than undermining it.

Like anyone else, high status people form social
networks, webs of relationships that link the
individual directly to other people, and through
these others, indirectly to even more people.
They enter these networks through socialization in
their families, schools, clubs, corporate boards,
and other elite circles where they associate with
people of similar background and advantages.

Because these social networks have much greater
resources of wealth, power, and prestige than
those of other people, their members have far more
"leverage" in society, despite their fewer numbers.

In effect, they have easier access to the
best education, the highest paid jobs, the most
useful contacts, the most powerful positions,
the most crucial information.

They influence, control, or occupy the commanding
heights of the economic and political order, and their
actions tend to preserve the advantages of their
class as a whole.

This class system survives for as long as
the resources of those who benefit from it outweigh
the resources of those who are disadvantaged by it.

Change may come about if members of the lower
class successfully mobilize their own resources,
by forming a social movement - such as a labour
movement - or as in the US - a civil rights movement,
that organises votes, funds, access to the media,
ability to cause demonstrations, strikes, etc.

In extreme cases social movements aim at revolutions,
using violence as a resource. World History has seen
revolutions overthrow governments, from the French
Revolution to the Russian, Chinese, Cuban, Iranian,
etc.

Revolutions however are exceptional, and violent
class conflict is unusual. Usually overtime the
existing inequality becomes a tradition, to be
taken for granted as the "way things are."
In short it gains legitimacy, the generally held
belief that a given political system in valid and
justified.

Pelican's idea of pollies wages linked to CPI would be OK, along with their super being linked to the incompetence of our business leaders so they too suffered massive losses as we do instead of continual rising benefits.

But why not do what happened to 'the workers', those slavish beasts who also think of themselves first before the good of the community?

During the 1990s, the Award system was restructured around the metal workers wage, which became known as the 100% rate.

People less than a tradie had their base award rate expressed in terms of 'less than' the 100% rate, so a shoppo might have been 75% of a tradie, but with added skills, industry courses, company PD etc, they could be promoted to the 100% rate as they rose in the ranks.

There is no reason why our CEOs, and pollies, could not be described in terms of a 'tradie'.

Are they 300%, 500%, or 45%.... at least 'the workers' could start to evaluate against where they sat in the muck heap.

Richie10 “All men have a gift and it is their passion so spend your energy developing your full potential”

English grammar is, obviously, not present among your “gifts”, Richie…

As for me, I do not care how verdant is Krudd or Turnbulls pasture

So long as rapacious socialists do not demand a greater share of “nature strip” from my house front than is actually there

Nor more from my already squeaky pips or I might venture to pastures overseas and beyond the clawing grasp of the ATO.

Re “The only one you really affect with your choices is you. I try not to be an aginer and be an encourager instead as I first reap the benefits of joy instead of sorrow and depression.”

I am happy with the decisions I have made, they got me to where I am today and I can assure you, that is a very, very good place to be.

My concern with “decisions” is I want to make them. I do not wish to subcontract them out to a bunch of socialist nongs, driven by left wing ideology and with no idea about worldly reality.

Peter Hume “The alternative is to leave people free to make their own choices”

Exactly, the best solution, devolution of responsibility to the individual.

It eliminates the power-elites and “special interest” groups. Those who feel a thing is worthy can do it (doubtless through a private provider if there are enough interested) and those who think something is garbage can ignore it.

Ronald Reagan had a term for it which he implemented into action.. he called it “smaller government.”

However, I doubt Obama feels the same.