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The Forum > General Discussion > Disincentives to come to Queensland

Disincentives to come to Queensland

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Queensland Premier Anna Bligh recently floated the idea of dishing out $3000 bonuses to people to go and live in the ‘bush’ instead of in the population-stressed southeast corner of the state. http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3238

This was ridiculed and she seems to have entirely dropped idea or any debate on it.

If Bligh is willing to commit many millions of taxpayer dollars in bonuses to incentivise people to locate away from southeast Queensland, then why wouldn’t she be willing to implement disincentives for people wanting to move into SEQ, by way of erecting new taxes, levees, surcharges, etc for new residents??

She’d be increasing state revenue and not imposing a further drain on current taxpayers (and voters). Sounds eminently sensible and politically achievable to me! Wouldn’t she get a lot of support from the voting public of SEQ if she did this?

This really is so basic. In a region with obvious population pressure, people should definitely have to pay extra to move in. Either this or we should have a one-in, one-out system, whereby people can only move in at the same rate as current residents leave or drop off the perch!

On Stateline yesterday evening, Bligh said;

“With 2000 new people coming here every single week, I need to make sure, any Government needs to make sure that we are getting ahead of the infrastructure and the services that people need.” http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/12/04/2762723.htm

She clearly sees this population growth as presenting major pressure on existing infrastructure and that it will take enormous efforts just to keep up the same level of infrastructure and services for ever-more people and her absolute best efforts to actually get ahead!!

And yet she has dismissed the idea of a population cap or of even doing anything to slow the influx!!

Surely it is absolutely time to consider ways of slowing Queensland's population growth rate!!

Is there anybody out there who disagrees?
Posted by Ludwig, Saturday, 5 December 2009 1:20:00 PM
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Well, you see, in Qld twenty years ago a new pin-up premier did away with most departmental blue collar housing, housing which enabled many working people to stay & live in so-called isolated areas. many such places were cohesive, fairly smooth running social communities because of the available housing. This premier (being academic) was unable to comprehend the consequences of sending all these departmental workers back to the southern centers & replacing them with short-term career public servants at double the wages costs & renting the now private speculator owned housing for up to ten times the cost.
So, twenty years later we have another premier who can't incite much needed blue collar workers to remote communities because housing is now unaffordable at $1200 to $1600 a week. Inconsequential bureaucrats occupy 99% of such housing because the Government can afford to fork out this kind of money. The communities are regressing because local workers can't afford to work let alone live there. 95% of manual work is being done by fly in fly out contractors.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 5 December 2009 6:43:26 PM
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Ludwig
Section 92 of the Australian Constitution says '... trade, commerce and intercourse among the states ... shall be absolutely free'.

This means that the Qld government could only charge Queenslanders for moving into SEQ, but not people moving there from other states. The political and pragmatic difficulties that such discriminatory charges would involve, are probably why they don't do it.
Posted by Peter Hume, Saturday, 5 December 2009 9:00:30 PM
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Thanks Peter.

But as I read it, there is nothing to prevent the implementation of monetary incentives to move into certain areas and disincentives to do likewise across state borders.

Afterall, differences in tax and general costs of living between the states amount to financial incentives or disincentives. So strictly, if what you are saying is true, then all states should have exactly the same taxes and levees, and for directly comparable properties, the same rates, rentals and real estate prices.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s92.html

I'd like to explore it further though. Do you know a constitutional expert of anyone else who could advise us on this?
Posted by Ludwig, Saturday, 5 December 2009 9:24:45 PM
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Monetary incentives are THE single most cause of our dysfunctional society. Rather than moving somewhere because a place is appealing, people go to places they don't give a hoot about as long as they can rake in the $. Enough communities have already been brought to their knees this unsustainable speculation exploitation.
If you're really sincere about a more cohesive & functional society then do so at the Ballot Box & let pragmatic conservative government do it's job without perpetual distraction from the antics of irresponsible leftists.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 6 December 2009 1:10:47 AM
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Queensland is a basket case to start with, it is still suffering from the Joe years. Any thing would be hard to get off the ground in QLD.
When you travel through QLD you see thing that are years behind other states. There's a big lack on safety along QLD roads.
In Victoria the bush incentive is 4000 and works well, then again Victoria has infastructure, and roads worthy of driving on.
Posted by Desmond, Sunday, 6 December 2009 6:22:01 AM
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Ok Desmond,
After you've returned to earth again could you give us some examples of those bad things from the Joh era that made people flock to Qld. To start with how can you even begin to compare Qld to Vic. Totally different logistics & climate for a start.
If you feel you must bag Joe for the sake of bagging then at least have the decency to pick on on a stuff-up, not just a perpetual, baseless bad Joh ranting. I don't mean to say he was a Saint, not by a long shot but all this ignorant waffle about Qld being backward due to Joh does nothing more than put crap on peoples blood, sweat & tears for the sake of making the vulnerable believe this ignorant leftie nonsense.
I was in Qld during the last 11 Joh years & believe me there wasn't even a fraction of this "suffering" lefties ramble on about. The suffering started when they so unceremoniously dumped Joh. Did you know that Qld used to have a health service under Joh ? No death duty either. The indigenous were making progress. I bet that's news to you !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 6 December 2009 7:52:17 AM
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Yes the High Court has tied itself in knots over the past 100 years trying to figure out what those words are supposed to mean.

You could try the website of the Bar Society in your state. It would probably list barristers and senior counsel by areas of practice. Some might give you a freebie.
Posted by Peter Hume, Sunday, 6 December 2009 8:46:07 AM
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In Victoria the bush incentive is 4000 and works well,
I bet it does Desmond, especially for those disrupting functional rural communities & investing the easily procured funds away from the community. Yes, it does indeed work well if you're a proponent for destroying social & economic harmony. It's a scary parallel to the national socialists of 1930's Germany. I recall people telling me that there & then it all started with restricting freedom of speech with a similar tactic as political correctness. Just keep in mind that if you don't act by the time the wannabe dictators are on step 12 it's almost too late to stop them from reaching the top of a 20 step stairway. Communities do not object to newcomers, they object to soul-less newcomers dictating to them. To entice someone to disrupt a community for 3 or 4 thousand Dollars is soul-less & reeks of utter incompetence & contempt considering that the right people are denied the opportunity of priority of lifestyle over money.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 6 December 2009 11:11:00 AM
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It does seem odd that governments who tout the benefits of unfettered population growth in economic terms will then act differently in terms of the reality of what population growth might mean. These Bligh incentives indicate the hyprocrisy.

Offering incentives to move to rural areas won't work unless there are jobs there to keep people in the town. If they change their minds will they have to refund their incentive?

To avoid high population growth one has to provide disincentives to large families (baby bonuses) and curb immigration to one in one out as Ludwig proposes.

Moving people to country areas to stop towns from dying is a good idea but has to be done in conjuction with encouraging business to country areas and ensuring transport, health and education infrastructure standards are high.

If that is achieved the benefits will have a snowball effect with less need for greater cash incentives from governments.
Posted by pelican, Sunday, 6 December 2009 12:38:57 PM
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From the front page of today’s Courier Mail:

Shut the gate. Residents want cap on population.

Most Queenslanders want the Bligh Government to cap rampant population growth in the state’s southeast.

60 percent of Queenslanders want the government to take steps to limit the region’s population growth explosion. A similar proportion say forecasts of six million southeast Queenslanders by 2050 would be too many.

---

So there is indeed a very large level of concern out there, which would make measures to cap the population or at least slow it right down quite politically tenable, and indeed politically dangerous for the government to do nothing about.
Posted by Ludwig, Monday, 7 December 2009 1:39:42 PM
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dear Desmond,
You have got to be kidding. Victoria would fit in the SE corner of Qld . I live 20 hours north of Brisbane and 12 hours south of the top. 5 hours would put you in N S W from the bottom of Vic. It is called distance old son.
Posted by Richie 10, Monday, 7 December 2009 4:36:53 PM
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I get an extra $21.70 a fortnight for teaching outside Brisbane. It's a bit of a laugh, really, but hell - that's about 2/3 of my electricity paid for, so I can't complain.

I think that Richie has a point when he brings up the difference in the size of our states. People in Brisbane live closer to Sydney and about as close to Canberra as they do to Townsville, where I live. And Townsville is nowhere near the top.

Our smaller population is much more spread out than Victoria's. We are the most decentralised state on the Australian mainland. Our coastline isn't as densely populated as NSW's - drive from Rocky to Mackay and you'll pass a servo on the right and that's about it. And that's a four-hour trip.

That's probably why people hug the southeast rather than venturing north - there's a whole lot of wasteland up here, the highways go underwater several times each summer and there simply isn't the tax revenue (or the interest from our Brisbane-based government) to fix the infrastructure for a relatively small regional population while the people of SEQ have the inconvenience of sitting in traffic for an hour or more each morning.
Posted by Otokonoko, Monday, 7 December 2009 9:58:29 PM
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Dear Desmond,
Upon reading all your posts I see that your lack of knowledge is showing. I recomend you get an education in life and don't open your mouth until you have something of substance to contribute. Discussions on OLO have kept my brain active after a stroke and I thank God for Belly and others because I have learned so much more staying in the game of life and not giving in to circumstances. Do not give up get educated for if you were the only person on the planet Jesus whould have still died in your place to pay for your sin and that is how much God loves you even you Desmond. So if the creator of the universe thinks that much of you, you atleast have one friend even if all others forsake you.
God loves you Desmond.
Posted by Richie 10, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 6:45:24 AM
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“That's probably why people hug the southeast rather than venturing north”

Ah but they ARE venturing north, as well as squeezing into the overcrowded southeast, Otokonoko. Townsville is booming in terms of its growth rate. Likewise Cairns and various other centres.

But they are not booming in terms of any improvements in quality of life or environment.

I’ve watched Townsville change for 26 years. It has always just been more of the same with few real benefits and several obvious downsides for existing residents, with the average quality of life remaining about the same.

I’d hate to see a decentralisation policy implemented by Bligh that actually causes the growth rate of Townsville and Cairns to significantly increase.

And I’d hate to see things get too much worse in SEQ in terms of water supplies, traffic congestion, etc, as this would also lead to people moving north in larger numbers.

Centres of this size - in the order of 150 000 people, are arguably on the upper side of optimum in terms of balance between good and bad factors associated with population size.
Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 8:40:20 AM
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You have a good point, Ludwig. I'd certainly hate for Townsville to boom much more in terms of population. With what the region has to offer, it's a miracle that more people haven't come here already. Recent growth has given us traffic, boxy housing estates and a whole heap of strain on the infrastructure. If Bligh really wants to control Brisbane's problems, she needs to preempt NQ's problems and solve them before they happen. Ultimately, I'd like to see Townsville, Cairns and Mackay grow slowly and steadily - natural increase rather than disgruntled southerners trying to find a place to live. Failing that, the government needs to tae a serious look at the north to make sure it can cope with what will inevitably come our way. Infrastructure, facilities, or maybe a separate state. Not sure about the last one. Manning Clark (was it him?) seems to think it's a good idea.

The reality is, SEQ can handle a lot more people. Sydney copes, Melbourne copes, and countless other cities around the world cope. Brisbane has the space, and with a few tough decisions the Coolangatta to Gympie corridor could grow both in size and in efficiency. There's no need to push people out - just a need to remanage the people who are there and are (apparently) arriving in droves.
Posted by Otokonoko, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 11:21:04 PM
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Sorry. I don't believe in god. It has to be abolished from earth, before any progress is made on world peace. The only reason people flocked to QLD in that era was because of the fraudsters flogging land that was flood prone or worse.
Every conseavable scam going comes out of QLD. The state is corrupt.
That should be disincentive enough, but some people lack common knowledge.
Posted by Desmond, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 7:44:04 AM
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<< Recent growth has given us traffic, boxy housing estates and a whole heap of strain on the infrastructure. >>

It sure has Oto. The traffic is extraordinary, and not just at peak hour! The new housing estates with big houses squeezed onto tiny blocks are just ugly and depressing.

Low-set brick and tile with tiny windows, dependent on air-conditioning, diametrically opposite to the old-style environmentally appropriate Queenslander with its big verandas and slat walls. Just makes me shake my head in disbelief!

Now we’ve got permanent water restrictions and a real mismatch between the rapidly growing demand and the water supply capability if we want to have a safety margin to get us through a series of drier years.

Ahhhh, bring on a decent cyclone. That should put a halt to the rapid population growth madness in Townsville, or Cairns! I wonder what effect Cyclone Larry had in this regard, after flattening Innisfail in 2006? Unfortunately, nowhere near a big enough effect!

<< The reality is, SEQ can handle a lot more people >>

Yes it could, if it really had to. But at what cost? It is patently obvious that any further population growth down there would have a considerable net negative impact.

If it is not to the advantage of the existing populace, then why would our government allow it?

How about that for a basic question that hits right at the core purpose of government, which is to look after the interest of the people that it is supposed to represent (um, isn’t it…or am I just being totally naďve?!)

Decentralisation is dipstickery for as long as rapid population growth continues! Implementing mechanisms to slow and then stop the influx into Queensland is what matters. Some decentralisation might then be appropriate, as part of a strategic plan that has population caps and the means to uphold them.
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:09:36 AM
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Speaking of little boxes, the last time I was in Townsville was a couple of years back, on the occasion of a family funeral. As I drove through Cluden, I was struck by the sight of a brand new suburb where cows and horses used to graze only a few years back.

I recall that a song came into my head - an old one by Pete Seeger, about little boxes made of ticky-tacky - that I remember from my childhood. This thread caused me to recall it again, and to sniff it out on the web to hear it again properly.

I found this delightful little vid on YouTube. Still so true after about 50 years, only the boxes have got bigger.

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEYGU_7EqU
Posted by CJ Morgan, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:11:34 PM
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I have a friend from Innisfail who assures me that, every time there is a cyclone there, property prices skyrocket. People from all over the place see the town on the news, think 'wow, that's a nice little town' and pick it as their seachange destination. I can picture it now - the next big cyclone to hit Townsville will have reporters on the Strand, on top of Castle Hill or anywhere with Maggie Island in the backdrop. People will say 'oh, poor Townsville. But isn't it pretty?' and our already overpriced boxy suburbs will double in price and continue the ridiculous march north and west . . .

But that's enough negativity for one night!
Posted by Otokonoko, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:44:03 PM
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What a sweet little rendition that is CJ.

But I like this version better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMQrVCd8dQ&feature=related

Turn up the volume!
Posted by Ludwig, Monday, 14 December 2009 9:54:35 AM
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Heh. Just goes to show what a couple of generations of living in little boxes made of ticky-tacky will do for you!
Posted by CJ Morgan, Monday, 14 December 2009 11:54:13 AM
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Interesting, Oto. A cyclone could actually raise property values and increase population growth. Wow!

You just might be right. The suburbs in the storm-surge areas will have their property values skittled, but yes the urban sprawl extending inland and northwards might just accelerate.

Oh well, I still say; bring on a decent cyclone.

Not a huge one that rips rooves off of houses, but a big enough one to bring Townsville into the national spotlight and raise peoples’ interest and hence property values.

Then I can sell up and get the hell out of here after 26 years and move up on the Atherton Tablelands and retire!!
Posted by Ludwig, Monday, 14 December 2009 10:33:05 PM
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Disincentives to come to Queensland? Despite that everything here tries to eat, sting, or bite you, nothing. smile. but to over populate it, would be a shame or any part of this drying continent. OK! lets say half of Melbourne and Sydney's people moved here tomorrow, do you QLD's have the patients to understand the culture difference's? and we know the Cronulla incident don't we. I'd say you'd just love some of my old neighbours, The 50 cents crew. lol. Better keep the people just where they are, trust me. Smile. Unless you would like a civil war. just joking. Population control for all Australians for this dring future, is the only smart move to make-shut the gates. Now! on a more practical sense, Natural disasters are great money makers in anyone's language, and since cyclones and other increasing weather phenomenon are obvious, I'd be think bricks. You do remember the story of the three little pigs. In reality, QLD is becoming more attractive than ever, but be warned! You need to be made of tough stuff.
Posted by walk with me, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 12:36:24 PM
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A new thread continues with a similar line of discussion:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3324
Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 22 December 2009 12:57:01 PM
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