MJPB,

The thread was started based on the report of what has happened in the Irish catholic church over the past few decades which amounts to abuse on a horrifying scale. So while there may be issues in other denominations, they are diversions from the original topic.

The other statistical fudging in the article you posted, was that there were 13000 credible reports in the US since 1950 giving an average of 260 p.a. Since in the 50's, 60's the reporting was almost non existent, and the victims have only recently felt empowered to speak up, the figures since the 80's would probably paint a very different figure.

Not being of any denomination, and looking in from the outside, the catholic church stands out as the single worst offender.

The issue is that pedophiles working as priests often go undetected, and as such are not uncovered. Even when one was uncovered, the church usually paid the hush money and moved him on.

Shadow Minister et al.,

Yes. And the paying of hush money and covering-up crimes is not pursued. The peers of the offending priests and the bishops should be put on trial for obstruction of justice.

A Royal Commission would be only as strong as the reach of its powers, I suspect.

Any Royal Commission should allow bishops to be called beforea judicial and gaoled for cover-ups and any contempt of proceedings. Moreover, the AFP could be given the appropriate powers, to capture documents and, interview priests and lay staff, where there are suspicious transfers. It wont would if Cardinal can tell the Police to get lost.

Someone is paying extra-judicial hush money and their signatures are on the bottom cheques in Bank vouchger rooms. So, those Christian leaders whom seek to pervert the course of justice can be identified.

The Catholic Church also works on the principle of "belated disclosure", as to create the impression every thing happened 20-30 years back:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iV9RaG8JwI6TAiFfjSHzocPBPseQ

Offenses didn't happen only 1950s and 1960s.

Good Morning Everyone,

What a beautiful Sunday morning it is
in Melbourne...

I've been away from this thread for a while -
and I've just come back - and
find that we're still more or less on condemnation...

Of course the cases of sexual abuse has done enormous harm.
But it's more than that. Paul Collins, "Believers," explains:

"The kind of uncompromising, unfriendly, and unattractive
'boots and all,' bully-boy style of Catholicism that is
often reflected by some leading church people probably
does more harm ...Vituperation, name-calling, shrill
denunciation, sneering and an entirely unconvincing
triumphalism are the principle modes of expressing
disagreement on any issue..."

"This sort of image presents the most unappealing possible
picture of what it is to be a Catholic, or to live as a
Catholic..."

"The image presented makes Catholicism unattractive and certainly
not worthy of intelligent consideration...Also bad, rejecting
experiences in church institutions and unsympathetic ministry
from critical or pharisaical Catholics are remembered for
years by those who experience them."

I agree with Paul Collins. "People are attracted by good
people and most are much more likely to become motivated
by hope and interest in God through good experiences..."

The church does need to change. However as I've stated
in my earlier post - Catholicism has survived
because ultimately it is adaptable and able to change.

Collins says:

"Personally, I am optimisitc that Catholicism in Australia
will survive, certainly with lesser numbers, but with more
commitment and ministerial energy. But to achieve that
Catholics will require genuine local leadership and a
willingness to confront both the difficulties and
opportunities that the church faces..."

Let's also remember that the rituals enacted
in any religion enhance
the solidarity of the community as well as its faith.

Baptism, bar mitzvah, weddings, Sabbath services,
Christmas mass, and funerals. Rituals like these
serve to bring people together, to remind them of their
common group membership, to re-affirm their
traditional values, to offer comfort in times of crisis.
and, in general, to help transmit the cultural heritage
from one generation to the next.

Foxy,

"Rituals like (weddings)
serve to...re-affirm their
traditional values...to help transmit the cultural heritage
from one generation to the next."

Yet you would try to fundamentally alter the very concept of marriage by redefining it to include SSM,
thus unaffirming traditional values and destroying our cultural heritage.
SSM is like a slap in the face for the very people who hold their traditional values and cultural heritage the most dearly.
However do you reconcile SSM with the importance of maintaining traditional values and cultural heritage?
Or is it just feel-good drivel that you haven't really thought about hard enough?

BTW, lately you've been cut and pasting more quotes than original material.
How about letting us hear what Foxy thinks in her own words and providing a link to your sources of inspiration.
I know there are no rules, but I personally stop reading after a while if the quotes get overlong.
Just an observation.

A beautiful day in Melbourne; who would've thought.

Dear Herman,

Thank You for pulling me up on quoting so
much. I'm afraid it's an occupational
hazard. I'm a librarian - and tend to rely
on books a great deal. However, I'll try
to not quote as much in future...

As for my comments on the same-sex marriage
thread that I initiated. The comments were
fairly clear and self-explanatory. As well
as my reasons for them. I have
no intention of explaining myself to you any
further.
I feel that all you're doing here is simply stirring,
and with all due respect - I'm not going to bite.

cont'd...

Dear Herman,

I was in a hurry with my previous post and
forgot to add - (just by way of information
for you). Another reason that I
quoted Paul Collins is the fact that he is one
of Australia's most respected commentators on
the Catholic church. A graduate of Harvard
Divinity School and the Australian National
University, he is a former priest, a historian,
and a broadcaster. He's also a former specialist
editor of religion for the ABC. He's written many
books on the topic of the Catholic church.

I thought it appropriate to quote from an expert
such as he - in addition to expressing my own opinion.
As I stated previously - quoting from reliable sources
of expertise is part and parcel of my profession.