The Forum > General Discussion > It's time for the Catholic church to change.
It's time for the Catholic church to change.
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Posted by mjpb, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 1:24:32 PM
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Dear mjpb,
Out of curiousity I googled, "Child sexual abuse by Protestant Clergy," and found quite a number of websites. It seems that clergy sexual abuse is not just a Catholic problem as some people seem to think. The following website in the New York Times was only one of many that people can google for themselves: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/16/us/16protestant.html "Data shed light on child sexual abuse by Protestant Clergy. June 16 2007. By the Associated Press. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 1:48:51 PM
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Foxy,
Thank you! I know we don't see all Catholic Church issues exactly alike and you could easily exploit the situation by being disingenous so I really appreciate that. For example I doubt that you think priests should be celibate. With regard to the stats you mention Shadow Minister considers it an irrelevant diversion. It is true that a direct comparison is impossible but the figures show that protestant Churches have a similar problem. The figures in the article you put forward suggest many more protestant molestions if the third insurance company had a similar trend to the other two. However Protestant Churches are bigger in the US and the Catholic stats are just for priests. Then there is the issue of reporting for insurance vs. any credible allegation not requring physical contact or initiation by the priest. Then of course there is the credibility for Catholic priest allegations compared with a presumed expectation to be believed compared with the usual fear of being disbelieved. Etc. So it is impossible due to the differences to know who 'wins" but it is clear that there is a substantial problem in the protestant Churches. That I argue is relevant to holding out the Catholic Church as being the problem and singling it out. Posted by mjpb, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 2:16:25 PM
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Dear mjpb,
You're most welcome. I've always enjoyed discussing things with you and I greatly admire your knowledge of the Catholic church. As for the celibacy of priests, I see that as a requirement of church law that could be changed today. There's a shortage of priests, and to ordain properly trained married men would go towards solving that problem. But that's just my opinion, and as you know - I'm not an expert on the topic. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 8 December 2009 6:06:30 PM
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Dear Foxy,
Though a skeptic, I was Confirmed a Catholic. Holding back the Eucharist is nothing short blackmail and in direct opposition to rememberance of the Chris, for believers. I think that Catholics should revisit the claim of Papal Infallibility Ex Cathedra and not twist Cannon law. I am certainly no expert on these matters but understand the American bishops do tend to be a little more autonomous in their thinking than in most other countries. Some suggest JP II over time contrived the conservative College of Cardinals, knowing it would lead to the election of a Pope like Benedict. Even in Australia, we see Church oppsoition to High Rights leglisation, suggesting the Church doesn't bend to the standards of modern communties and it fears it will subjected to Secular rules. If the impetus of Vatican II had not died, I think we would have seen more reform. Regards. Oly. Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 9:30:45 AM
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Dear Oly,
It's going to be interesting to see what will happen in the future. My feeling still is that if you've been around for 2000 years you will have learned to adapt. There is of course as Paul Collins points out a theological explanation for this: that Christ predicted that through his Holy Spirit he would be with the church 'always to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:20). This doesn't mean that the church won't make mistakes. It infers that the Holy Spirit would sustain the church through all the vicissitudes of history in the sense that ultimately the church would not betray Christ or lose the sense of his message completely. Its a case of the Spirit of God assisting the church to make sense eventually out of its own human confusion. Therefore I don't have a sense of hopelessness and pessimism. I still believe that the Australian church is the right size to be able to change. But as I said - only the future will tell. Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 10:26:26 AM
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http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=17538
He rightly concludes "...writes Archbishop Dolan, who also admits that “the Catholic Church is not above criticism.”
“We Catholics do a fair amount of it ourselves. We welcome and expect it. All we ask is that such critique be fair, rational, and accurate, what we would expect for anybody.
..."