Dear Foxy,

Thank you.

You may be right on both counts regarding priestly celibacy.

However on the first count whilst it is literally correct there may be more to it than meets the eye.

There is no reason to think Jesus required celibacy even though he was celibate himself. However it would appear that he required sexual continence for his priests (assuming by eunuch he meant they were to be sexually continent cf. literally emasculating themselves) Later it would seem that for a long time priests could marry but couldn’t have sex. For about 1000 years there has been a celibacy rule.

If the celibacy rule was lifted would we go back to married priests who can’t have sex (which I believe was the position before the Second Lateran Council which introduced the celibacy requirement)? That would be the obvious default position but I doubt if anyone calling for married priests would accept that solution. Therefore it might be a big event if the Church decided to change. That would presumably result in recourse to scriptures and tradition to work out what is required. If it was determined that Jesus required priests to be sexually continent but could marry then it would bounce back to the same result as the simple solution albeit via a much more involved circuitous route probably involving a Church Council. But if it was determined that that is what Jesus required the Church would have no choice. He is the boss. Now I may be way off the mark with all this. It is pure speculation but it is something that I wonder. It may be that if the rule was abrogated priests could simply participate in marriages like many of the protestant denominations.

As regards the second issue, there is debate as to whether or not it would work and I suspect it is unlikely that the Church would do anything in the current climate. More likely they’ll just work to eradicate paedophilia and not go out on a limb with changes until the scandal abates.

mjpb,

According to Zias, Essene communities had a disproportion number of male graves, suggesting a largely segregated male community. Christians, Essenes and similar sects were did practise celibacy to high extent. In Christian and similar sect communities, some celibacy existed in marriage. Symbolically, the Catholics still retain the (virgin)Brides of Christ. Some sects banned self-castration, from frustrated members, but, if memory serves, these were not Christian.

Some sects did allow its members to have relations with sacred prostitutes. Depending on Jesus’ early religious life, especially in twenties (unknown), it is feasible he was not a virgin, however, it is very unlikely that he was ever married (sorry, Dan Brown).

In the early Christian church, widows were discouraged from remarrying, so the estates would pass to the Church, to the extent, it became a problem for Roman civil authorities.

Hi Oliver,

You read some interesting things. You mentioned that widows were discouraged from remarrying. The same was true of Bishops. Paul in giving a list of requirements for them said that they could only marry one woman.

Thanks for the interest in the topics.

Hi mjpb,

Thanks. I too have learned from Foxy, yourself and others.

Just some more recent information.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/15/2771786.htm
http://www.javno.com/en-world/vatican-confirms-talks-on-irish-abuse-report_285177
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/12/12/exclusive-irish-pervert-priest-new-life-running-b-b-in-st-andrews-86908-21891716/
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jR94k4OOJtYkyOI4bdJedhI0apDQ
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/142713/Catholic-chiefs-shielded-paedophile-priests-from-law
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/john-cooney-oldstyle-secretive-church-must-be-given-the-last-rites-1973728.html

It might be better to organise those links for more clarity.

The first link (in my reordering) is another reference to the report which found a cover up by state officials of sex crimes in the Church:

"A number of very senior members of the Gardai (police), including the Commissioner in 1960, clearly regarded priests as being outside their remit."

Certain Church officials also failed their duty to the victims to ensure that the criminals were brought to justice. Getting a specific mention were:

"Four archbishops – John Charles McQuaid who died in 1973, Dermot Ryan who died in 1984, Kevin McNamara who died in 1987, and retired Cardinal Desmond Connell – all failed to hand over information on abuse"

It wasn't until 1995 that Cardinal Connell gave the files to the police. From the above paragraph presumably that wasn't an immediate action for him as he was shamed for his (earlier) inaction.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/142713/Catholic-chiefs-shielded-paedophile-priests-from-law

Archbishop comes down on Bishop who had mishandled sex cases. Bishop appears unrepentant in article.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jR94k4OOJtYkyOI4bdJedhI0apDQ
An opinion piece relating to the report which doesn't seem to put information together coherently.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/john-cooney-oldstyle-secretive-church-must-be-given-the-last-rites-1973728.html
Archbishop then takes his victory graciously when Bishop 'resigns'
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/bishop-murray-did-the-right-thing-says-archbishop-martin-438687.html

Media 'concerned' about lack of apology resulting from report. "The Irish foreign minister told RTE on Sunday he was - deeply disappointed that we have not had a comprehensive statement from the Vatican or indeed from the pope."
http://www.javno.com/en-world/vatican-confirms-talks-on-irish-abuse-report_285177
The next day the papal envoy apologises and "Ireland's top two Catholic churchmen, primate of all-Ireland Cardinal Sean Brady and Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, plan to brief the pope on the report in Rome on Friday."
http://www.javno.com/en-world/vatican-envoy-apologises-over-irish-sex-abuse_285346
"On Friday, Pope Benedict apologised again for the actions of some members of the clergy."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/15/2771786.htm
Irish pervert priest located in Scotland. He was one of the worst and got restricted and suspended from about 83 and defrocked in 1992. He fled the Ireland when it looked like the law would catch up with him.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/12/12/exclusive-irish-pervert-priest-new-life-running-b-b-in-st-andrews-86908-21891716/