Suzie a fun list but most are about choice.
- Car mechanics tell you the truth. Sometimes because I and a lot of other men are more likely to have learned enough to spot the worst lies. If more women made the effort to learn more about cars mechanics would be less likely to try to con them.
- The world is your urinal. It's easier for me to duck behind a tree but I'm more likely to be arrested if someone see's me.
- Same work, more pay. Not in my workplace.
- Wrinkles add character. Probably but it depends on what you and those who's opinions matter to you value.
- People never stare at your chest when you're talking to them. Agreed but I also don't wear tops in my workplace which highlight my chest. I'm guessing that if I started to wear pants to work which exposed selected portions of my testicals (or even pushed bit's of my anatomy forward and up) I'd be stared at then booted out in a big hurry.
- The same hairstyle lasts for years, maybe decades. Again it depends on what you value. The pressures from peers may be different but it's still a choice.
- You only have to shave your face and neck. I don't have to, I choose to do so both for my own preferences and because my partner prefers it.
- You can play with toys all your life. Again a personal choice and it's still about what you value. Is playing with big boy toys all that different in essence to things women do which men often don't get.

There is truth to the list but there are missing items which could balance it. Life for all of us includes finding a balance between social pressures and our own preferences. I hope you posted the list in fun and I'm sorry that my response takes away from that but there are those who seem to take "male privilege" a bit to seriously.

R0bert

Pynchme again many of us have been calling for year to have the focus on gender taken out of anti-violence messages. That's not doing nothing it's trying to get a good starting place to move on.

"Right now all I see is self-justifying BS, very possibly from fellows who have attracted AVOs already. Abusers are well known for minimizing their responsibility for the damage they do."

I've never had an AVO/DVO taken out against me and from what I've read of them having one taken out is no proof that someone is the abuser. If anything on this thread indicates minimising responsibility it's the excuses for female violence listed in an earlier posts of yours. Calling for anti-violence messages to cover all violence (including male violence) hardly minimises responsibility, insisting that anti-violence messages be directed at the other gender may.

I doubt that many would want WRD stopped if the message was against all violence. I noticed CJ pointing out elsewhere that he would like to see a reduction in immigration to Australia but would not support a racially targetted campaign to do so. That pretty much sums up my feelings on this topic.

Can I assume that the excepts from the book which you have quoted are ones you agree with? If not would you please identify which ones you don't agree with?

If those findings reflect your views it would explain why you so rarely find male DV victims, you have defined them out of existance and assume when confronted with evidence that it's just a woman defending herself against a controlling male. If your behaviour here is an indicator you will make the assumption that the male is the abuser just trying to cover up his abuse. It's pretty hard to see the reality through those kinds of gender stereotypes.

R0bert

I just don't agree with generalizing a study of 130 or so too widely. I have known of a couple of exceptions. In one the woman had a serious psychosis and did some severe harm and in the other she went to great lengths to torment and control her husband. However, I don't even work in DV all the time and the number of abused women and their injuries - appalling. It makes me sick to see so much ranting here that these things should be hidden again. Also, the number of men trying to obtain an illness label to circumvent legal consequences of some serious damage inflicted by them on others is infuriating - a tremendous waste of resources.

R0bert I tried to restrict links to those that people could open without journal access. This one might be suitable. In any case; have a Google. About 20 years ago a researcher with a name something like Gandolfi developed a self report scale, which couples filled in and returned. He consistently found that regardless of how bad the injuries, male perpetrators always under stated the amount and extent of violence; while women tended to overstate theirs. Anyway, lots of research has been done since.

http://jeccourses.unm.edu/dv/resources/mod1/1_assultive.1.pdf

This is a much more eloquent and succinct account of salient issues than I'm capable of providing.

http://www.xyonline.net/content/secrets-and-lies-responding-attacks-domestic-violence-campaigns-2006

You might also note that statements by another DOTA adherent is mentioned in that essay. You might take the trouble to research other people contributing to that site.

Btw: Re: Cornflower's constant attacks on CJ - peer behaviour is in fact a recognized factor in encouraging or discouraging negative behaviours of all types including violence. Check the research

Pynchme, "peer behaviour is in fact a recognized (sic) factor in encouraging or discouraging negative behaviours of all types including violence"

What going one step further and applying that to the given example, or are you saying that contrary to all of the advice given on domestic violence and the WRD oath you favour people disregarding evidence of domestic violence and the solution is to simply send the suspected violator to Coventry, dust your hands and sit back?

Do you ever stop to read and think before you cut and paste or (more likely) do you just grab anything that vaguely looks like it might bolster your argument and hurl that at your 'opponent'? First one to the picket fence wins?

The only thing that will reduce violence against women in our society is when men collectively condemn it. It works very well in my small community, where men who bash their women are obviously disrespected by other men.

The only thing that will reduce violence generally in our society is when men collectively condemn it, with the support of women. This is because the vast majority of serious violence is perpetrated by men, despite the obfuscatory tactics deployed by some in this thread.

Anybody who would argue against a male-driven action like WRD - that is dedicated to eliminating violence against women - must be in denial about the heavily gendered nature of violence against women, not to mention interpersonal violence in our society in general.

Let's face it - men commit most of the serious violence, so it's up to men to speak out against it. The attacks on WRD and those men like me who deplore violence generally are very telling indeed.

Let's hope for an even bigger WRD next year :)

CJ

All ostracising suspected offenders does is makes things worse (the suspected offender and his family have more worries about being suddenly left out socially and being gossiped about), delay any necessary counselling/treatment and it could drive problems underground.

The suspected offender and the victim need people who care enough to offer support and suggest alternatives, while respecting their privacy and right to make their own decisions. Sometimes, just being the non-judgemental ear, the person who is there to support and will not reject or railroad (or isolate) is all that is needed to get the process going.

Ostracising ensures that assistance and any required treatment will not be forthcoming, until a catastrophic event occurs.

To take an example, you become aware that a friend is becoming very withdrawn and moody and you suspect the drought is making things difficult with the bank. Your partner comments that one of your friend's children told your daughter at school that her dad shoved her mum down stairs the previous pm.

According to what you have said already the immediate actions to take are to roundly condemn domestic violence (only way to stop it you say) and ensure that you and your mates immediately ostracise the s.o.b.

Frankly I cannot believe you could be so limited and insensitive. One things for sure though is that WRD has no solutions to offer.

What about getting some mates together locally and have a go at setting up a men's shed or something similar? You have the knowledge, skills and contacts. You also know you need to be proactive and take action personally and locally because government and activists (from both sides) have no answers only demands and it would be nothing short of tragic if another man suicides or takes out his depression, alcoholism or whatever on himself or his loved ones because no-one heard or notices his cries for help in advance. Wives and loved ones are welcome at men's sheds.

Try self empowerment, self help and bugger waiting for government.

Got any better ideas? Wait for the next WRD? -What would that do?