stevenlmeyer

<< I wholeheartedly endorse Monbiot's stance on this matter. >>

You've cherry picked Monbiot's article in the same manner Runner has. You've even repeated the same quote he's already used on this thread. You made no mention of the satirical piece Monbiot used, which is the whole point of his article, and you've completely ignored the overall conclusion he came to.

Monbiot is not at all persuaded that these emails discredit the whole of the science on climate change. As he said in the quote I used in my reply to Runner, they form only a very small part of the overall body of evidence.

<< For the umpteenth time – whatever umpteen is – this is NOT, repeat NOT, one more time, NOT, primarily about anthropogenic global warming (AGW). >>

Stop dictating the terms of discussion. Of course this debate is about AGW.

Yes, it's about the integrity of the scientific process, I agree. But the glitches that have been exposed have to be placed in context. They don't in themselves destroy the validity of the bulk of scientific data. They also need to be scrutinised in terms of timing, of who these hackers are and who is paying them, and why. There are a whole range of issues to be discussed.

Narrowing the terms of debate might suit your agenda, but people like examinator, CJ, rstuart and myself, who are interested in balanced and perspective-based discussion, will continue to ignore your demands, as is our perfect right to do so.

Folks,

A few more issues for thought.

Perhaps Steven wants narrowly limited debate that isn't primarily about AGW but....

I'll bet that was the objective of the Hackers.(e.g. why didn't they hack theoretical mathematicians involved in Collider research? that's far more academically controversial).

And a more interesting point is why isn't there any moralistic discussion about their clear committal of crimes? or about the scientist's "right" to privacy?

As I said before 'public's need to know' or 'public's good' has yet to be established let alone proved.

In the absence of these 'community good' being clearly obvious I think these criminals should at least be the subjects of opprobrium lest privacy means nothing.

Again this isn't a reasoned debate (i.e. informed etc) it's largely pack (lynch mob) mentality, only the excuse varies.

Rstuart said;
>And just to repeat what was said elsewhere: the IPCC bases its
conclusions on the published scientific papers, not emails.

Well that is just the point, what is in their papers ?

A related concern is the cooling that is what a lot of this discussion
has not shown up in the IPCC computer projection of temperature.
This apparently concerned the CRU and its correspondents.

This taken together with the refusal for the source code of the
computer modelling program to be made available raises numerous
questions.

Many of you will know the old saying GIGO.
Considering the amount of money hanging on the output of this
program the UN or a government should purchase the source code and
release it. Failing that being agreeable a government should by
passing a law obtain and release the coding.
It is just too important.

Bazz: "Well that is just the point, what is in their papers ?"

I'd wager no one here has read them - and that includes me. What we have here is a whole pile of accusations the emails somehow prove the conclusions in the papers are wrong - from people who haven't read the papers and don't have a clue as to what those conclusions are.

More to the point, as far as I can tell there was no data in leak. So there is no way to double check their work and prove the conclusions are wrong, even if you were familiar with them.

The bitchiness displayed in the email's isn't unusual. The "I found a better trick than Johnny did" thing is pretty much par for the course in all social settings, from kindergarten to University halls. So no, Bazz, there is no news that deserves to go beyond a socialites gossip column under the heading "I am so much better than X"

As for them not releasing their models or data - as I said that is the real scandal. But it is not something new, as it has been going on for decades. Hopefully this leak will force them to clean up their act.

And to those who say the person leaking the data should be prosecuted - it is a two edged sword. We only get to find out a lot nasty things going on behind closed doors because of leaks. We also get to see harmless dirty laundry, as is most likely the case here. But even in this case it may lead to them opening up their data which would be a good thing.

Forget The Emails,..Code Discusses..“Artificially Adjusted”..Temperatures
http://www.prisonplanet.com/forget-the-emails-code-discusses-artificially-adjusted-temperatures.html

Although..the majority/of the attention..around ClimateGate/has focused on emails..exchanged/between CRU scientists,..the real smoking gun...proving deception and fraud..can be found in the code of climate-models..which prove that..temperature numbers were..“artificially adjusted”..to hide/..the decline..in global warming/..since the 1960’s.



“Climate Gate”..Development:..CEI Files..Notice of Intent..to Sue NASA
http://www.prisonplanet.com/climate-gate-development-cei-files-notice-of-intent-to-sue-nasa.html

Today,..on behalf of..the Competitive Enterprise Institute,..I filed three Notices..of Intent/to File Suit..against NASA..and its Goddard Institute for Space Studies..(GISS),.for those bodies’/..refusal..for nearly three years..to provide documents requested..under the Freedom of Information Act.



Climate Alarmists..Finally Admit..The Debate..Is Not Over
http://www.prisonplanet.com/climate-alarmists-finally-admit-the-debate-is-not-over.html
Top climate alarmists..have conceded that the climategate scandal..represents a huge blow to the global warming movement..and that the debate is not over,

and yet establishment media organs are still..invoking South Park’s Officer Barbrady..in downplaying the story despite the fact..that it clearly illustrates how evidence..which directly disproves global warming is being censored..by agenda-driven scientists.

BBC Climate Correspondent Was Forwarded CRU Emails Five Weeks Before They Were Made Public
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bbc-climate-correspondent-was-forwarded-cru-emails-five-weeks-before-they-were-made-public.html

A BBC Weather presenter..who was discussed by scientists..in the “climategate” emails #
says he was forwarded the material..more than five weeks before it was made public on the internet.

Obama’s Science Czar..John Holdren involved in unwinding..“Climategate” scandal
http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama%e2%80%99s-science-czar-john-holdren-involved-in-unwinding-%e2%80%9cclimategate%e2%80%9d-scandal.html
from the ongoing University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit..(CRU)...scandal,..now riding as “Climategate”.



Climate Expert:..“Compromised”..UN Scientists should be excluded..from IPCC,..Peer-Review Process
http://www.prisonplanet.com/climate-expert-compromised-un-scientists-should-be-excluded-from-ipcc-peer-review-process.html

A prominent German scientist..who was attacked in the leaked CRU emails..by UN affiliated climate scientists has stated that the group..should be barred from taking part in the peer-review process..and excluded from the International Panel on Climate Change.



Call of Duty Has Gone Too Far: How Our Children Are Being Programed Right Before Our Very Eyes
http://www.prisonplanet.com/call-of-duty-has-gone-too-far-how-our-children-are-being-programed-right-before-our-very-eyes.html

This is one of the more disturbing things..I have seen in a while.
To think of the way that our society is programmed..and conditioned..is becoming sickening.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-scientists-would-rather-change-facts-than-their-theories.html

Climategate:..Monbiot makes it all suddenly OK..through medium of satire
http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-monbiot-makes-it-all-suddenly-ok-through-medium-of-satire.html

First the good news. George Monbiot..has issued a personal apology..for the shabby behaviour of his climate-fear-promoting scientist chums..in the Climategate scandal.

All Your Emails Are Belong To Us
http://www.prisonplanet.com/all-your-emails-are-belong-to-us.html
EXPOSED: Man-Made Global Warming Fraud!

http://www.prisonplanet.com/audit-the-fed-attached-as-an-amendment.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/lord-monckton-prosecute-the-climate-change-criminals.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/alex-jones-on-climategate-hoax-of-all-time-a-global-ponzi-scheme.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/alex-jones-tvhow-to-expose-the-climate-fraud.html

Brownyn

Your blind faith is impressive. If you can't see how corrupted the whole gw scam is it just proves how strong your faith is despite true scientific evidence. Of course you believe the 'science is settled'.

The point I was making about Monibat is that at least he had enough integrity to acknowledge fraud and deceit unlike those who claim the 'science is settled'. Mr Rudd, Turnbull and Ms Wong are among those. They are looking increasingly gullible or deceitful each day as more and more scientist fell they can speak other than the dogmas the lying 'experts' have demanded. IN fact may scientist like in the 1970.s acknowledge the planet has cooled over the last 12 years. It certainly has not cooled due to a decrease in coal burning.