bronwin quote<<.. agree totally with his conclusion..<< This is a desperate,..last-ditch tactic..by fanatics..who have lost the rational debate.>>

thats so funny...so it is a debate..

that explains the lack of fact...
or any concern about the truth of the facts..

its so funny reading the opinion of the ignorant of fact..and recognise a last ditch tactic...by the true global hollow cause...your children will cry at your mindless gullability

its easier to agree..than study the facts...
so the sheeple say fleece me...

that is unless..their one of them paid to blog mob...or getting some of the govt lucre/...direct

JBowyer wrote:

stevenlmeyer You assert "no this does not discredit all the science behind AGW. It MAY discredit some of it". What are you suggesting, just being a bit pregnant?

There are many strands of evidence that support the theory of anthropogenic global warming. Some, not all, have been compromised.

Instead of the pregnancy analogy, think in terms of a net. Some of the strands have been damaged. The net still exists but is not as strong as it used to be. It needs to be repaired.

Bronwyn,

So you think a man who threatens to destroy data, who denies other researchers access to data, who tries to silence dissenting voices, who boasts of using tricks to hide things should remain as head of an important research unit. That tells me all I need to know about you.

Examinator,

I think it's time you lived up to your nick. Stop seeing (non-existent) nefarious Zionist plots everywhere, get over your self-evident dislike for me, and take a good hard look at the evidence.

I disagree with George Monbiot over many things. But he at least is prepared to face facts. To quote from his latest blog:

"Climate sceptics have lied, obscured and cheated for years. That's why we climate rationalists must uphold the highest standards of science

"...It is true that climate change deniers have made wild claims which the material can't possibly support (the end of global warming, the death of climate science). But it is also true that the emails are very damaging.

"... Pretending that this isn't a real crisis isn't going to make it go away. Nor is an attempt to justify the emails with technicalities. We'll be able to get past this only by grasping reality, apologising where appropriate and demonstrating that it cannot happen again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/nov/25/monbiot-climate-leak-crisis-response

Bronwyn, first you insult anyone who disagrees with you and call them "Nutters" then you say there is no time too lose on allowing any more argument, we have to act now? Well first your gratuitous insult masks only the weakness of your cause. Secondly we have plenty of time the only reason that you need a quick ETS is so when the drought breaks you can say "See I told you what we needed was an ETS".
A few years ago the electric utilities of Britain scammed a billion pounds sterling from consumers on some nonsense or other, nothing said or done. At the moment those same utilities are leaving retail prices high although wholesale prices have reduced considerably. Of course the foreign Companies that own all our utilities would not do that would they? Oh yes they would! The media is focused only on the opposition not on the government and certainly not on those lovely foreign utilities paying loads of money to advertise themselves. Nutter yourself!

There are some people in the world that hate peace.
They would do pretty good to tune in here, this is war.
I don't think picking on anyones grammer will solve any thing.
I am sure you can get the gist of what is being said.

Here's an example of where this is leading:

Andrew Bolt suggests the data showing a warming trend in NZ is fudged:

See:

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/climategate_making_new_zealand_warmer/

The explanation New Zealand's National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA) gave for making temperature adjustments may well be correct.

See:

http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publications/news/all/niwa-confirms-temperature-rise

But, in the light of what we now know do you think anyone will accept on trust a bland re-assurance that NIWA is using "internationally accepted techniques" to adjust temperatures?

Are you prepared to put your hand on your heart and assure people that these numbers are not fudged?

If you are prepared to put your hand on your heart the natural question is:

You know this how?

How do you know someone hasn't used a clever trick to hide something?

Can you say whether an independent auditor has had access to the raw data and been able to verify the reasonableness of the adjustments?

For what it's worth I am inclined to believe NIWA. But I cannot prove it. If someone asks me these questions all I can do is shrug my shoulders.

In a matter as sensitive as climate change even a hint of impropriety destroys trust. The measures needed to combat climate change are going to destroy the livelihoods of millions of people and cost literally trillions of dollars. Governments are going to have a hard enough time selling this even if people have faith in the honesty of the scientists. But what if they start thinking that maybe, just maybe, some of these these guys have been cooking the books?

Here's how George Monbiot puts it:

"Climate sceptics have lied, obscured and cheated for years. That's why we climate rationalists must uphold the highest standards of science."

See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/nov/25/monbiot-climate-leak-crisis-response

I don’t often find myself agreeing with Monbiot but in this case he's on the money.

This is an unmitigated catastrophe and every day Phil Jones keeps his job makes it worse.

Selected excerpts..of George Monbiot’s..article..in the UK Guardian/are reproduced..below.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-new-deniers-uk-greenie-george-monbiot-most-of-the-environmentalists-i-know-have-gone-into-denial-pretending-the-climate-email-leak-isnt-a-crisis-wont-make-it-go-away.html

The New..‘Deniers’:..UK Greenie George Monbiot:..‘Most of the environmentalists I know have gone into denial’...'Pretending the climate email leak,,isn’t a crisis won’t make it go away’..By George Monbiot/UK Guardian/November 25,2009

George Monbiot Excerpt:..I have seldom felt so alone.,,Confronted with crisis,..most of the environmentalists..I know have ..one into denial.

It is true that climate change deniers have made wild claims which the material can’t possibly support..(the end of global warming,..the death of climate science)...But it is also true that the emails are very damaging.

The response of the greens and most of the scientists I know is profoundly ironic,..as we spend so much of our time confronting other people’s denial.

Pretending that this isn’t a real crisis..isn’t going to make it go away...Nor is an attempt to justify the emails with technicalities.

We’ll be able to get past this only by grasping reality,..apologising where appropriate and demonstrating that it cannot happen again...[...]

One of the most damaging emails..was sent by the head of the climatic research unit,..Phil Jones...He wrote “I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report.

..'Kevin and I will keep them out somehow..even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!” [...]

Even so,..his message looks awful...It gives the impression of confirming a potent meme circulated by those who campaign against taking action on climate change:..that the IPCC process is biased.

However good the detailed explanations may be,..most people aren’t going to follow or understand them. Jones’s statement,..on the other hand,..is stark and easy to grasp...[...]

If you take the wording literally, ..n one case he appears to be suggesting that emails subject to a request be deleted,..which means that he seems to be advocating potentially criminal activity.

Even if no other message had been hacked,..this would be sufficient to ensure his resignation as head of the unit.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/new-zealand-climate-data-shows-clear-evidence-of-fraud.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/manufacturing-conensus-why-climategate-hurts-the-warming-faith.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-the-scandal-spreads-the-plot-thickens-the-shame-deepens%e2%80%a6.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-people-need-to-go-to-jail.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-congress-investigates-climategate-e-mails-this-could-be-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-agw.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/author-points-to-climategate%e2%80%99s-perry-mason-moment.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/i-might-not-know-the-truth-about-climate-change-but-i-recognise-trickery-and-slippery-excuses-when-i-see-them.html