It was quite riveting watching the footage and stories around the anniversary of the collapse of the Berlin Wall in 89.

Whatever one thinks of the man, Reagan's speech in Berlin, 29 months before the event, in which he said “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” was powerful.

The wall stood for 28 years and few thought they would see its demolition in their lifetime.

The equivalent in our times is of course the wall the State of Israel has built around Gaza and the West Bank. Again at this time it is hard to see it ever coming down but it surely must. Why? Because although there often seems to be ample evidence to the contrary I believe as an evolving species we are better than that.

In Reagan's speech he referred to some graffiti he had seen on the wall earlier in the day. It read “This wall will fall, Beliefs become reality”.

So over a lazy family BBQ this weekend we had the occasion to ask the question; who would best make the equivalent of Reagan's speech in that part of the world and on which side would they be standing?

Though other suggestions were flagged the highest vote getter was Chancellor Angela Merkel speaking from the Palestinian side of the wall, in Bethlehem (I personally preferred Jericho).

I was wondering if the good folk of the OLO Forum had any thoughts on the above question and possibly a prediction on the timeframe of the wall's survival.

Csteele “The equivalent in our times is of course the wall the State of Israel has built around Gaza and the West Bank”

Wrong

The point of the Berlin wall was to keep people in.

The point of Gaza wall is to keep people out.

Somehow I see ordinary East Germans and anyone else subjugated under the yoke of socialist/communist oppression as entirely different to terrorist minded bombers and fighters who do not stop at blowing up children.

The Israeli wall will last as long as the Israelis are threatened by the murderous and pointless Palestinians, who for over half a century have been the spoilers of everywhere they have grouped - hence, their eviction from Jordan, their illicit occupation of Southern Lebanon and the fighting and civil conflict in Gaza - between themselves.

Reagan was a visionary, a man of conviction and worth (just like Margaret Thatcher, hence their friendship).

Of those who aspire to strut the world stage today – they are just a bunch of spin-doctor’s mouth pieces.

Obama, Krudd, Brown (or Blair before him) – none of them have the vision or real sincerity of the Reagan’s and Thatcher’s.

They just have sweet saccharin words, designed to win the votes of feeble minded sheep.

Dear csteele,

Arbitrary arrests, incarceration without trial,
the killing of civilians, inhumane roadblocks,
settlement expansion, forcing people out of their
homes and stealing their property, all this leads
the Palestinians to one conclusion: that the Israelis,
and their US backers are not serious about peace.

Israel's Supreme Court ruled that sections
of this barrier violates Palestinian human rights.

In 2004 the International Court of Justice found that
the barrier broke international law because of its
negative impact on the Palestinian residents along its
route and because Israel built the wall on occupied
territory rather than along the 1967 "Green Line."

As Antony Loewenstein tells us in, "My Israel
Question,":

"All three major political parties in the 2006 Israeli
elections essentially argued for the same outcome:
for the Palestinians to disappear, or to be made
invisible to Israeli eyes..."

"Some 30 years ago Moshe Dayan explained the thinking
that continues to this day: Israelis should tell the
Palestinians in the territories that 'you shall continue
to live like dogs, and whoever wishes may leave, and we
shall see where this process will lead.' The occupation
should remain permanent in one form or another, he argued."

Loewenstein says, " I still hope for a day when Zionists
will cease using Israel's "security", or the Holocaust,
or the "war on terror" to justify and excuse actions
that are routinely condemned when committed by any other
country."

"People seem to make no distinction between an occupied
people and those who occupy them. Israel talks about the
right of self-defence. How can an occupier claim self-defence
but deny the same right to those who are occupied and
have the right of self-defence with whatever means are
available to them."

Unfortunately as Loewenstein points out:
" the Kadima vision is of a concrete wall,
with Jews on one side and as many Palestinians as
possible on the other."

"Neither side has a monopoly on suffering, but only
one party has the power to end the occupation and
to recognise that Israel and Palestine are historically
destined to share the same homeland."

The wall must come down!

Dear Col Rouge,

<<Somehow I see ordinary East Germans and anyone else subjugated under the yoke of socialist/communist oppression as entirely different to terrorist minded bombers and fighters who do not stop at blowing up children.>>

It is an indictment that it was only after I had read past this statement that I was able to discern who you were referring to.

My focus had been the West Bank Wall which when completed will be 703kms long compared to the Berlin Wall which was 199kms.

The West Bank Wall intrudes well into Palestinian territory and is as much an exercise in land acquisition as security. It has excised 8.5% of the West Bank Territory and a 2005 UN report stated “The land between the Barrier and the Green Line constitutes some of the most fertile in the West Bank”. The Berlin Wall followed recognised borders.

The International Court found that “the construction by Israel of a wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and its associated régime are contrary to international law"

One only has to look at the current state of the West Bank to realise how great a crime this is and how it will be regarded in the future.

http://www.btselem.org/Download/Separation_Barrier_Map_Eng.pdf

As to Reagan to agree to secretly sell weapons to the Iranians to free the embassy hostages with money source via drug deals with the Contras really set the tone for the rest of his presidency. A man of conviction maybe but hardly worthy.

CONT'D...

You ask for a time frame for the
wall coming down?

The day will come when the religious zealots have
less influence in Israeli government's affairs.
In the meantime, unless the world unites in
condeming Israel (as it did with the apartheid
policy of South Africa), I don't see the wall
coming down any time soon. I believe that many
in Israel have a vested interest in prolonging
the conflict despite the fact that many Israelis,
like the Palestinians simply want to live in peace.
Even though successive leaders in Israel and the
Diaspora seem determined to umdermine this possibility.

I feel that Israel opposes a resolution to this conflict
because it opposes the presence of another people on land
it has claimed as exclusively for Jews.

The real challenge is to persuade our political leaders
and the news media to listen to voices that challenge
their prejudices and preconceptions. A Palestinian
state will not happen easily, not without the involvement
of many caring people. Just as John F. Kennedy said in
Berlin so many years ago, "I am a Berliner!" ('Ich bein ein
Berliner').
So Barack Obama could easily say, "I believe in the future of
Palestine and its people, without walls!"
(Or words to that effect).

The conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians has been going on for far too long for any one of us not involved in the conflict to take sides.
Both sides have been equally as violent in their dealings with each other as far as I can see.

The wall should not have been built. I am appalled that the US has taken the Israelis side and thus appears to be condoning the building of this wall.
It will cause nothing but pain, as did the Berlin wall.