It seems to me that the current internecine battles in the Liberal party are in some ways deliberate.

HOCKEY is clearly setting him self up to become the leader of and Nick Minchim is a well known plotter and shrewd schemer. I don't think it's by accident that he's now trying to scuttle the deal on ETS.

He is IMO is looking to a double dissolution. There seems to be four obvious alternatives .
- Tip out Turnbull so to maximise the honeymoon for the new leader (Hockey?).
- Or the take Turnbull to a losing election then replace him.
- There is a feeling within the Libs that they can win a Double Dissolution on border control and thus avoid the split with the Country Party ( National Party (sic)).

Minchin clearly believes that the public can be persuaded that AGW isn't a big deal thus delaying any action only doing anything to match the world's worst. (pro the current business Status Quo elite.)

What do all these machinations say about the Liberal Party's 'values,
Power first?

NB If the tables were reversed I would be challenging the Labor party.
I distrust all PARTY political motives.

So, while all this pathetic in-fighting rabble goes on and on, attention is being diverted from the issues that really matter.
And the direction that the Libs desperately need to adopt if they are ever going to win power; a direction that is very different to Krudd's current maximised growthist agenda and that is essential for the preservation of a decent quality of life in this country, doesn't even get a look-in!

There is just no sign at all that Hockey or Minchin or anyone else would do any better than Turnbull, either for their party of for the country.

How very sad.

Ludwig
What convinces you that the Libs don't have exactly the same over all agenda?

Both parties fight over the middle 5-10% of the swinging votes. Basically that mean's business as usual, perhaps a different letter head and the tea lady and the cleaner are out sourced and the same (metaphoric) debt level exists....same poor performing Govt.

If Minchin gets his way it will business as usual. much as I dislike the man's attitudes Minchin is no fool. He is wedded to no AGW and pro growth and the same Economics(Magic Pudding syndrome).

Xammy, the Libs DO have the same agenda! The differences between them and the Kruddites is piffling.

For as long as they uphold this stupid 'me-tooist' crap, they'll remain an in-fighting opposition party!

And Rudd will continue to get away with the WORST political philosophy (that of the most incredible large-scale never-ending expansionism) that this country has ever seen.

agreed that the Liberal party is a mess under Turnbull. He is more to the left and as naive when it comes to climate change as Mr Rudd. What is absolutely pathetic is that it is obvious that not all Labour is stupid enough to believe in gw yet not one has got the guts to come out with it.

Dear Examinator,

Politicians will say one thing and
often do something totally different
always having an explanation for why
they changed their position or even
sometimes claiming, "that wasn't what
I said."

Therefore the denials coming from Joe Hockey,
and Nick Minchin at present regarding any
leadership challenges to Malcolm Turnbull
must be taken with a grain of salt...
In other words, "We shan't challenge the
current Leadership if we can come up with
another important measure necessary to win
the next election."

The reality is - it could be worse - instead of
Joe Hockey - you could have an Abbot or a Bishop,
right?

It could happen of course that Turnbull will get
sick and tired of all this in-fighting amongst
the party members and just up and quit.

However, the problems won't go away. A new Leader
will still faced with the same issues that Turnbull
is currently facing - the ETS has to be voted on -
(better sooner than later) - and a disunited Party
won't stand much of a chance with the Electorate.

It looks as if the PM and his Government may be in
for another term, unless Turnbull can get
his colleagues to work as a team - and present
a serious challenge.

I wish him luck - or at least - better Party support.
he'll need it to put the Party back on track.

The more the Liberals fight, the more chance a third party might actually overtake them.
Therefore- keep up the fight fellas- your country thanks you!

This should simply outline how petty, self-interested and totally unsuitable for running a country the Liberal Party actually are- instead a lot of people are waiting at the edge of their seats hoping they'll "get their act together" for the next election- as if they EVER had their act together to begin with.
In fact, anyone that views governing the country as a matter of their 'team' using tactics and teamwork to win, like a sports game, shows a VERY sick state of mind in this country and only enhances my support for abolishing compulsory voting.

The ONLY good thing the Liberal Party EVER had in it's entire history was a reasonably good treasurer- but he's bailed out of a hissy fit- so he's not really suitable either- even if he comes back- again.

Dear KH,

I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat
waiting for the Libs to get their act
together.

I'm fully aware that they've
been going round in decreasing concentric
circles for years. But in all fairness,
if Labor was able to learn and get their act
together and they managed to win the last
election - perhaps, just perhaps, the Libs
may make it yet, providing of course
they're able to give up - their preferred sin of greed.

Won't happen Foxy- both major parties are filled to the rim of selfish, shady characters mostly concerned with feathering their own nests- and no amount of competition will make them suddenly turn non-corrupt. But I guarantee you they WILL pretend to do so in the hopes that enough people desperate for an opposition party that's not the Greens will take it as a sign of anything meaningful.

The only way to get Australian politics to become actually serious, and not the gravy-train circus it is now, would either:

1- if somehow, all of the old members were replaced by honest, decent and public-serving people (that for some reason wanted to join the Liberal or Labor Party, and the existing party members were helpless or too incompetent to realize and stop them). Basically, for hordes of people flat out against the (real) principals of the parties, systematically joining them hoping to undermine them and convert them into something actually serious- all without the existing members realising this until it's too late. Ironically, they'd have to be bigger, more skillful cheats than the people they're hoodwinking- yet more honest at the same time.

2- People vote for another party- eg one with a less corrupt track record or one that at least makes a point about specific corrupt political practices and are, presumably, more strongly against them than the current two parties.

3- For some various regulations cutting back politician's pay substantially- cutting all perks entirely, and regulating politician's conduct. This would easily get all of the less honest characters- all jumping ship instantly. The problem is, these politicians decide their own perks- there's no way such a clause would slip past them.

As unlikely as any of the above happening, 2 is by far the most possible- although if there are any persons planning number 1 with their friends, that would be even better.

Dear KH,

Is it really as bleak as all that?
Geez Louise!

Well, I guess Dennis Pryor sums it up rather well
then, in his booklet, "Political Pryorities :
How to get on tope of Australian Politics,"
when he writes:

" Dedicated to Canberra
Where bureaucrats parasitical
And parties political
And Ministers hypocritical
Steal the money of the nation
Through what they call taxation."

Afraid so Foxy.

You might be interested to read up some thoughts of former Independent politician Ted Mack, too.

But it becomes pretty clear when you look closely enough at their overall conduct, behaviour etc.

Especially when it comes to matters of the transfer of funds either to the party members, or to major industrial lobbyists.

Similar deal with Labor.

Krudd was elected on his promise, like those made by so many detergents, to get the skid marks out of your undershorts…

So two or so years down the track

Far from delivering a bright and shiny pair of jocks

The skid marks have just become even more Kruddy.

We were better off using brand Howard, safe and simple, no promises of dazzling whiteness of the aforementioned under garments and no premium price (in the form of the large economy dimulous package) as paid for Brand Krudd delivering nothing.

John Winston Howard the 25th Prime Minister of
Australia will not go down in the history books
as the second-longest serving Australian Prime
Minister (much to his regret), but as the
second sitting PM (after Stanley Bruce) to lose
his own seat in a re-election.

There will be time enough to judge our current
Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, and those that come
after him, in the years ahead.

It should be an interesting comparison for the students
of history and political science. One PM's blunders
are well documented, the other still has time to make
his.

Foxy, knowing our historical recollection of past Prime Ministers- and our contemporary confusion over what they actually did/do/didn't: Howard will probably go down in the books as something quite unlike how most remembered his reign (either something dazzling like his (extremely mild) economic boosts, or his utter wickedness and warmongering.

A good example (and ironically actually to his credit) is how he is differentiated from past Liberal Party leaders as non-Liberal and highly conservative and warmongering- despite being comparitively mild compared to "small L" Fraser and Menzies- who both supported conscripting Australian civilians to fight in Vietnam (the first time conscription had ever been introduced- and without public consent which I'm pretty sure is unconstitutional), simply because they were communist and needed to be stopped using whoever they could throw at them.

The one book that decided to describe Menzies as a 'tyrant' (which sounds pretty good to me), were hounded. As bad as Howard was, he probably WAS the most liberal Liberal leader- at least drafting wasn't on his agenda.

John Howard will always be the Lying Rodent to me.

CJ writes

'John Howard will always be the Lying Rodent to me'

Coming from a Greens supporter why would anyone be surprised. Truth and lying is a moving target for them.

Dear old runner - you just make stuff up, don't you?

I don't suppose you'd like to provide a reference to a single lie uttered by an Australian Greens politician? With Howard it's dead easy - we could start with the "never ever" GST and go from there.

Besides which, "Lying Rodent" was a title bestowed on him by his own party. It fits so well.