Dear George,

Thanks for putting the statement in context. I try not to consider groups when dealing with individuals. Humanity or its lack should not be associated with a particular group of humans. Many consider all Nazis evil. Oskar Schindler of "Schindler's List" joined the separatist Sudeten German Party in 1935. Though a Czech citizen, ethnic German nationalist Schindler started to work for German military intelligence (the Abwehr under Wilhelm Canaris). He was exposed and jailed by the Czech government in July 1938, but after the Munich Agreement, he was set free as a political prisoner. In 1939, Schindler joined the Nazi Party. He was a committed Nazi but also a humanitarian.

Unfortunately Hegel had more influence on Germans than Goethe or Schiller. Followers of Hegel (1770-1831) split into left Hegelians, the most notable was Karl Marx, and right Hegelians who were mainly German nationalists. Some heirs of the latter were Nazis. Hegel opposed individualist concepts of freedom contending that only absorption in an organic society generates self-realisation for the individual. This justified state tyranny under Lenin, Hitler, Mussolini and Mao and the murder of millions. The we/they philosophies of class struggle, nationalism and race struggle supported these murders. Hegel maintained that history had a purpose leading to an apotheosis or fulfillment. Hegel's fulfillment was the Prussian state. Marx's was the eventual classless society. The racist philosophy of Nazism was responsible for the death of millions. The philosophy of class hatred called Marxism is also responsible for the death of millions.

Another of Hegel's bad ideas was that of the dialectic embodying a mechanism for social change proceeding from the contradictions within society. This also supports the we\they philosophy justifying sending of opponents of the Marxist or fascist tyrannies to the concentration camp or the grave. They opposed the march of history. History has no direction but is contingent on human ingenuity and the physical milieu in which humans exist.

Hegelian garbage has produced Marxist and fascist garbage to drive the two great murder machines of the twentieth century. The current century is recycling the garbage of religious fundamentalism.

Davidf

re your response to treating individuals as they should be et al.

I really believe that you are misinterpreting his words comprehensively.
Firstly one should consider the time and mores of that time to see his intended meaning. I suspect you are putting C21th spin on his intentions

secondly your JD quip is right but contextually doesn't relate to the above.

Judging individuals is an essential part of survival. Therefore JD's quip could be interpreted as non involvement and denies the point of society. Extreme example: a man is beating his wife do you leave him hell alone or do you intercede?

Conversely IMO Goethe’s argument was geared more to prejudice. i.e. if you treat a peasant as a peasant (with contempt, dismissal)the peasant will resent you.
The C21st lesson might be ;if a person is rude so be polite/measured in return (treat them as they might be). If you heavy them they will respond more aggressively. or just because they're an ex-con don't assume they're worthless.

This is in keeping with my earlier stated view condemn the act not the individual. However, punishment must also attempt to rehabilitate. To do otherwise is simply feeding the beast within not nourishing the person.

A little overly Pollyanna (unrealistic at times) but if we stop trying to better our-selves and wallow in our failings that IS where we will remain. This to me is enlightened self interested commonsense humanist philosophy rather that arrogance/superiority or even judgmental etc.

Dear examinator.

I admit I put my own spin on the words. However, if a lord treats the peasant as he would another lord the peasant will probably be uncomfortable with the treatment and wonder what the lord wants of him. It is necessary to treat the peasant with respect while not making him uncomfortable. Where there is a gap in status that is not always easy to do.

examinator wrote: a man is beating his wife do you leave him hell alone or do you intercede?

Dear examinator,

I don’t know. I would have to know more before I can answer the question. In Philadelphia I once saw a man beating his wife on the street. Another man much closer to them than I was intervened whereupon wife swinging purse and husband swinging fist together attacked the intruder. I think the intruder was well-motivated but wrong and possibly could not know that he was wrong.

Being 84 and aware of my physical limitations I would probably not intervene but would try to get the police or someone else to intervene if intervention seemed called for. I have heard that domestic violence is responsible for more police casualties than any other cause.

I agree very much with your statement, “…if we stop trying to better our-selves and wallow in our failings that IS where we will remain.”

I have heard “We are all sinners” many times on this list. This seems to me to be one of the bad features in Christianity. The doctrine of Original Sin can encourage wallowing in guilt. Somehow I manage to wallow in guilt without the ‘benefit’ of Christianity.

You wrote: condemn the act not the individual.

That sounds like the exhortation to hate the sin but love the sinner. Let’s take the example of Dennis Ferguson, the child molester. I feel both pity and abhorrence for him. I feel pity because he is not allowed to live in peace. He has been hounded wherever he lives. Yet he apparently would do the same thing again if he could. Apply that to him.

Dear Fractelle,

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences in your former relationship and I'm sure the emotional hurt didn't end when you removed yourself from the situation.

If I can make my point another way, one can have evil intent or 'evil in ones heart' and not act on it but I'm not sure someone can do an evil deed without having the evil thought in the first place.

Therefore the thought lies at the foundation whether it is acted on or not, the action is responsible for compounding it.

Now that evil thought, I would argue, might take the form of handing your conscience for someone else to mould and use i.e. someone who kills in order to do 'God's work' and feeling completely righteous in doing so.

Naturally I don't know enough about your situation to be the least bit definitive but may I suggest while there might have been 'evil' thoughts or even intent it was also more than balanced by the 'good' of not acting on them despite what may have been extreme provocation.

To have those evil thoughts is just an undeniable part of being human and is our species' collective input that dictates what form the construct we call evil takes. It lacks none of its validity because of it.

Music however seems to me to be more innate. One only has to see a chimpanzee mother crooning to her infant, or engaging in rhythmic rocking to calm it, to see its origins. Leonard's Hallelujah has been covered by so many artists and although using essentially using the same words and tune have given us religious, sexual, sad, celebratory, romantic, lonely and many other versions of it. It is an example of how, with its ability to elicit such powerful responses, music heightens our awareness of things that are can be beyond speech.

Dear csteele,

I reject the idea that a thought without action no matter what it is can be the least bit evil or even bad. I think it creates unreasonable guilt to think so.

Dear davidf,

You said “I think we have different attitudes in that area.” you are right and I really wouldn't want it any other way, keeps life interesting.

Imagine the hell of heaven with everyone agreeing.

I have to thank you for exposing my surprising (to myself) tribalism for Christianity, something I would have sworn till now I didn't have.

Let us hope it is of a benign nature.

Just a quite word in the shell-like if I may. When you said “As far as one's football team goes I am bemused when an Australian politician finds it relevant to state which football team he roots for.” visions of Kevin clad only in a Brisbane Lions scarf atop Therese flashed into my brain. These are visions I would rather not have.

While you have said “Truth in language has been a preoccupation of mine.” you should know there are many different truths and that 'ethnowareness' is a good in my book.