Arjay, has the phrase "quit while you're ahead" ever occurred to you?

I'm in absolute agreement with your position on the monetization of carbon. In fact I have said on a couple of occasions that a remake of the 1967 movie The Graduate would have the following dialogue:

"Mr. McGuire: I want to say two words to you. Just two words.
Benjamin: Yes, sir.
Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
Benjamin: Yes, I am.
Mr. McGuire: Carbon Trading."

To the point where I am truly appalled at the naivety of the sheep who go along with the bizarrely twisted logic behind it all, completely oblivious to the lurking blokes with red braces, yellow ties and chalk-striped suits, waiting to relieve them of their wallets.

But then you go and spoil it all. What makes you do it?

>>I've read numbers of $125 trillion of total debt.Every person in the USA in debt to the tune of $485,000.00<<

Thanks, by the way, for including the cents in that calculation, it makes all the difference.

But a few moments reflection would tell you that the number in question is absolute garbage.

For a start, to whom do they owe this money?

Riddle me that, Batman.

You have absolutely no grasp of mathematics, money or economics. So stick with the righteous indignation, kiddo, and stay well away from dubious information sources.

Pericles I've seen the figure $125 trillion written a few times from different sources.I question it myself because it sounds too outrageous.The US is in very serious strife and are likely to stupid things.No one really knows the debt or the extent of the potential derivative collapse.We just know it is enormous.

dear pericule..[robin]..the govt owes..the fed reserve...if govt..'owes'...its..the people/..tax payers..who pay...

but..we are in/far from...'normal'...times...the fed..was taken from govt by the bankers..in 1933...who orded the/our gold..be seized..as surity..for outstanding govt overdraft...in affect govt's..been bankrupt since then

govt constantly draws from..the unlimited fiat funds of the fed/reserve...govt gives the fed..a bond to underwrite it...and in good times..the fed bankers sell/on..the bond...now..the fed is buying back bonds..

every penny of tax..goes to the fed..as repayment...its stange you make claims..to not know this...i thought you better informed../.but govt surrenderd the right..to issue..its own currency

i suggest you catch up..with the scam..by reading..'the creature from jeckle island'..that explains much/naming the names...

see the fed..exclusive franchise..[to issue..'fiat-money'..]..means these..'american dollars'..arnt national debt...but evidence of foreign/international occupation...

america briefly issued..its own debt free notes..[they are green]..but bankers soon told them to stop it..[so pres/ford did]

see multi/nationalist..coorperate bankers..are subverting govt..from serving..under..the constituited/..constitutional law...into the laws of civil contract....where its people's/assets/treasure/estates..are the surity..underwriting the bankruptsy

..as well as/looting its people dry..via income tax..[also introduced at that/time...reading our own hansards/at this..same time...it's a global scam..

the hansard debates/..are very revealing...the big debate wasnt about bankers..stealing/control of the fed...but the..'tax on income'..the bankers demanded..to pay off/intrest...somehow..weve never paid off the principle

the big..good thing for this is..govt has retained the right of seignorage..[the right to mint coin...gold and silvercoin..are the only constitutionally/legal money...bankers only made.;.their debt paper/legal tender...but thats..under fiat...by degree...or perogative...because the debitor..is standing..in dishonour

despite bankers having finianced..every way ever..[the 300 million dead from war...can be blamed on the bankers...who get countries into debt...via war..to loot its people...

the first thing that disappeared...in iraq..was the gold..held in its vaults...also the real reason..for iraq was..it wanted to trade in euro's..[not yanki dollars..

noting germany is demanding its gold back...but/..fed leased it..to their fellow bankers/mates...for pennies..so bankers..could sell it and they did..france caught on to the scam..[they got the german gold...china seeks gold/as well..

it dont like..all these yanki dollars...because one franchise sets its..price/exchange rate..and only/ever/need only repay..in ..fiat..effectivly..hemp-paper...

[total cost of production/..for a note..is 7 cents each.....so their equity...lol..is great..at about what banruptsy/recievers get

AUDIT THE FEDS

Arjay the figures I could find are much lower. Mostly around the 11 trillion but I've not quite worked out just what the covers. I also wonder about the ratio of debt to asset, many families might have a large debt for a mortgage but the current value of the house is worth more. Others will have a large mortgage and a house that's worth a lot less.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/08/chart-of-day-21-aug-2008-total-us-debt.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/business/worldbusiness/08yuan.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/02/AR2009010202322.html

R0bert

ok robert i done some searching
http://www.pgpf.org/about/nationaldebt/

"How exactly does a $56.4 trillion bill add up?"

We know that the federal government..carries both publicly held debt and debt for money..it has borrowed from itself.>>>the fed is not itself>>..Together,..these sums are closing in on $11 trillion.

This is the figure..most commonly cited as our.."national debt,"..but actually,..that's only the start of the REAL national debt.

Right now,..you are carrying a burden of about $184,000...That is each and every American's share..of the US government's approximated $56.4 trillion in current obligations.

And every year..in which no down payments..or reforms are made to these obligations,..the total grows by $2 trillion to $3 trillion – or $6,600 to $10,000 per person..on autopilot.

How exactly does this $56.4 trillion bill add up?..First,..there are the federal government's known liabilities..that it is legally obliged to fulfill.

These include publicly held debt,..military and civilian pensions and retiree health benefits...As of September 30, 2008, these liabilities added up to $13.5 trillion.

Then there are various commitments..and contingencies/..contractual requirements..that the government is expected to fulfill when,..and if specified conditions are met...

So where does the remaining $43 trillion or so come from?

That's what the government has promised to pay in Social Security and Medicare benefits in excess of related revenues. As of January 1, 2008, current and promised future Social Security benefits amounted to $6.6 trillion. And between Medicare's three programs (hospital insurance, outpatient, and prescription drug), current and future promised Medicare benefits amounted to $36.3 trillion.

That’s how you get to $56.4 trillion...And remember:..every year in which no down payments or reforms are made to any of the obligations above,..this total grows by $2 trillion to $3 trillion.

Stick with www.pgpf.org to keep track of how much you owe.

reading the graph...here
http://wallstreetpit.com/10720-american-debt-falls-for-first-time-since-1954

note..top graph growth rate..then under it...see the fed graph[spike]

Arjay says:

<<I have a challenge for Kevin Rudd.If he is going to push ahead with this tax,then ALL the proceeds should go towards developing clean energy technologies and giving solar power [to] all residents.

Watch them cough and splutter at this suggestion, since the elites will not then benefit.>>

Spot on, Arjay. Congratulations for expressing it so concisely.

I guess this 'benefitting of the elites' is behind the desperate moves to sell off publicly-owned electricity generation as quickly as possible. Do you get the sense that the Federal government is doing its best to put Chevron in the box seat in this respect?

Who is/are going to be the ultimate major beneficiaries of the $450M already committed to Hot Dry Rock geothermal development, for example? My money is on it being Chevron, across the board in gas, gas to liquids, gas fired electricity, and geothermal electricity. An oil giant ensuring that it will also control the market for future electric transportation energy.

Goodbye off-peak electricity tariffs. Watch the price of electricity go through the roof.

I get the feeling Kevin Rudd is already committed to something like this scenario.