Yes bronyn, you are right, the very 'minority' only work 9-3. It's just a pitty you have to continually attack someone just to get your point accross. You know I will admit when I am wrong, so Why the attacks?

Now on the other hand, if you are trying to upset me, take a number blossom and get in line. Many have tried but often failed.

However, 48 weeks instead of 40 something may let them know how the other half live. In any case, I am often told 'if you don't like it' being self employed that is, 'then don't do it'!

Same applies here dear!

A few thoughts here.

Firstly, I am a teacher. I am not on $80,000 - closer to $60,000, which is reasonable money (except that it took me four years at university and five years on the job to earn that). My former housemate works in a call centre and brings home more than me.

I think we all agree that teachers don't just do six hours a day, so I won't bother driving that point home. I'm happy to have a 9-5 workday, 48 weeks a year, if:
a) I get paid for overtime, or at least accrue time off in lieu.
b) I get to take my 4 weeks holidays when I want to, not during school holidays. That would be necessary if we are to have truly equal working conditions.
c) I get a monthly RDO like my family members who are not teachers.
I suspect that all of this would be impractical, though, so maybe the way it is now is better.

A further point I'd like to make is that we can't always believe what the newspapers tell us. I am not furious at the 4% offering, and none of my colleagues have expressed any fury either. Perhaps the head of the QTU is, but he is not a teacher. If he had done his job and ensured that a new agreement was ready on 1 May when the old one expired, this whole situation could have been avoided. To be honest, I'll take the 4% (which is, by the way, 0.5% less than independent schools have received) and see what comes in the future. Most teachers I know seem to be on the same wavelength as me.

Otokonoko,

Fair comment about the holidays. I agree that would be fair but I think if you looked across the whole spectrum of professionals working in Australia you'd find the majority don't get paid overtime, time in lieu, or RDO's. You stay until the job is done, and you don't get paid overtime for it.

I've worked for 5 employers in the last 10 years, and only had any of this when I was in a govt job.

We could all probably find an example of someone who is paid more than us. I know unskilled factory workers who earn 20-30K more than me. But it's important to compare apples with apples. They work shift work, weekends and overtime which I don't.

Does your call centre friend work 9-5, 5 days per week, or do they have 12 hour shifts, overnights and weekend work etc?

Belly,
I don't dislike unions. In some circumstances they're necessary as are businesses but there are some businesses that are so big, ruthless, so insensitive, so everything/anything for a profit and stuff the worker or the client...some banks/Telstra come to mind. That does not mean that there aren't real/good people in them or they don't serve a purpose.
You proved my point in every organization there are good and bad INDIVIDUALS.

I've even met a nice man who (spit..do a war dance curse a few times, kick something) likes sport and one who is an LNP supporter go figure. ;-)

Belly
Sorry I meant to say you proved my case that there are good and bad individuals in every walk in life and therefore dumping on all because of a minority is plain prejudice.

All
It seems to me that this like other discussions suffer from a lack of objective fact to substantiate their propositions.

i.e. teachers are making a 'pay grab' (pejorative wording). Then following it with a mass of impressions (usually plain superficial impressions).
It is a truism of life that the someone else's grass always appears to be greener so let's nobble them so we (I) can get more.

This is then 'justified'(?) by 'this is my opinion and I have right to it'
But do we? My rule of thumb for difference between an opinion and a prejudice is objective facts (real knowledge) and therefore the ability to support the proposition without resorting to extremes, abuse, tricks etc. Even if it conflicts with my conclusions. We do have the right to have different conclusions, but harm others because of our emotional prejudices etc.?

In the final analysis it all depends on where you see your interests lie but all thinking people agree that prejudices harm others and ultimately us all.
i.e. I know a young woman who's educational history is well, marginal.
She claimed You don't need an education. I wasn't good at school.(Y10 exit) Teachers were out to get me they're like that!

Well, now she's a functionary at a teachers union and vehemently claims teachers are under paid .... Presumably the real facts changed her mind or was it her interests go figure.

Hi burbs,

I think it's a basic human characteristic that we'll always feel 'hard done by' when other people are better off than us. My call centre friend works 9-5, 5 days a week, has no skills or qualifications and brings home substantially more money than me. I would love to be happy for her - to feel glad that she is doing so well - but that sense of jealousy always gets the better of me.

As for the overtime, time off in lieu and RDOs, I haven't had as much experience in the workforce as you, but all jobs I have worked in (other than teaching) had these little perks. Most of my friends' jobs do as well. I thought it was common practice.

Anyway, I think the most important point I wanted to get across is that teachers in general AREN'T furious at the 4%. If anything, most of us are furious at our union. It should have had an agreement ready for implementation when the old one expired at the start of May, rather than waiting until the eleventh hour. On top of the $450.00 a year I pay them (for what, I don't know) they have cost me more than $600.00 in potential earnings (assuming a 4% raise) over the past 5 months. They have dragged teachers' reputations through the mud, rarely consulting us along the way. Frankly, it's not good enough.