The following abstract is taken from the Oilgae Blog (see: http://rpc.blogrolling.com/redirect.php?r=fb4152af3198c677a6e3ddff91adc4c3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oilgae.com%2Fblog%2F )

"Australia is preparing to introduce technology that allows algae to capture half or more of the greenhouse gases emitted by a power station. The micro-algae thrive on carbon dioxide, producing food for livestock as well as biofuels and material for plastics.

The idea is to pump emissions from power stations into photo-bioreactors, which are large tubes filled with algae. When carbon dioxide from the power stations is mixed with water, the algae soak up much of it, using it as a nutrient. Once the algae are removed from the tubes, scientists say they can be buried in the seabed, where they could store indefinitely the carbon they have ingested. The algae can also be processed and used to create biodiesel fuel and fertilizer, as well as food for farm animals.

Kirsten Heimann at Queensland's James Cook University developed the technology.

.

.

Three of Australia's biggest coal-fired power stations are building algae farms to help them reduce pollution in a country where 80 percent of electricity is generated by burning coal."

It would be interesting to know which coal-fired power stations these are, and whether they are ones that are presently still in public ownership. It is even more interesting to see the convergence of projected continued use of coal-fired electricity generation capacity with algal oil production. One would only have to add the use of waste heat powered reduced-pressure desalination to this grab-bag of new technologies and the oil cartel and privatised water utilities could face some pretty fearsome competition, at least here in Australia.

Chevron corporation TV advertisements stress its capabilities in geothermal power. Chevron holds 50% of Australian natural gas rights. $450M of taxpayers funds are budgeted for geothermal development this year. Why are we seemingly putting Chevron in the box seat of a power monopoly? Are Australians' interests being sold out by our politicians yet again?

This topic is intended as a follow-up to Belly's 'Power without pride' topic of last year. See: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2103&page=0

Good start FG I have always held hope we could find answers like this.
It sounds great and the future may well bring true excitement in this area, well it will we all know that.
Let us hope it is not driven of shore because of lack of interest.
We did drive a great deal of solar away to other country's.

The thing we have to realize is that Almighty God is nobody’s fool. The invention of Carbon Dioxide, by the Good Lord, for the express purpose of providing food and shelter for humans and animals, was no accident. If you look at the universe, consider Almighty God as the best civil engineer ever. Carbon Dioxide is a fertilizer. As the world’s population is increasing, it is going to need more food, and in fact more of everything, and this thread simply shows that it’s what we don’t know, that is holding us back.

The only way that the necessary energy can be transported from one part of the globe to another is carbon dioxide. Add the necessary thirty odd minerals, to the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, and the Good Lord’s little helpers grass, trees, vegetables and grains, get going at full pressure, and whip billions of tons of carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere as necessary. We call it food.

All matter is energy. As a young student the maxim was matter can neither be created nor destroyed. That was before the full import of the atom bomb was understood. Now the maxim is energy can neither be created nor destroyed, and as we get to understand more about energy, we realize that all matter is simply a form of energy. Little particles in motion; Circles within circles. The Earth circles the sun, the solar system circulates in the milky way, the milky way circles other galaxies, they say millions of them.

Back to my hobby horse. State of Fear by Michael Crighton, is a work of fiction for Australia because the scenario he writes about, where the facts must be found by a jury, does not exist in Australia. State of Fear is a book about political manipulation by lawyers. In the United States its harder for them but in Australia it is easy. Trial by media is no substitute for a good old fashioned jury trial, and while carbon dioxide is hung drawn and quartered in the media, it could stand a jury trial and be acquitted

FG,

As I understand it it has the added qualification of "scientists believe the algae might". Until it's tested I wonder. I've also read scientific concerns for longterm dumping it in the less than infinite sea and side effects. (acidity has been mentioned)
What's the point of jumping on this straw only to find it's a another biological (micro toad) pollutant.

I still maintain that "business as usual just add algae" is a limited solution we need to address the issue as source "consumption" as well.

I'm not anti the idea just wary and want to see more research...quickly.

Sounds pretty cruel to me.

>>Once the algae are removed from the tubes, scientists say they can be buried in the seabed, where they could store indefinitely the carbon they have ingested. The algae can also be processed and used to create biodiesel fuel and fertilizer, as well as food for farm animals.<<

Next thing you know, we'll be going around beating algae to death with clubs, and no-one will lift a finger.

It sure is tough being algae these days, just because they're not as cuddly as baby seals.

Yes Pericles, it's not easy being blue-green ;)

Interesting stuff, Forrest. I'll watch developments with interest.

Peter the Babbler: << The invention of Carbon Dioxide, by the Good Lord, for the express purpose of providing food and shelter for humans and animals, was no accident. >>

Bizarre.

the algie will be huge...keep uptodate with this business oppertuinity where ever there is co2 emissions...

the return..for acres..equals an small oil well..in algie that converts into oil...get control over the oil refineries...algie costs cents to the barrel

but it depends on our point of vieuw

A poor man..trudged up and down..the steep staircases..in the high apartment buildings..in his neighborhood...He knocked on doors and asked for charity...At the end of a tiring day,..he sat on a park bench and counted the coins people had given him.

His mind wandered and he dreamed of better times.

"One day,..I will be rich...I will own great fortunes..and have a lot of influence in the community."..The poor man rubbed his hands..and his forehead became wrinkled..as he thought.

"Then,"..he thought to himself,.."I will make a new law...All new houses which are built..will have to be only one or two stories high. My life will be much easier!..I will not have to climb all those stairs in order to collect alms!"

His greatest fantasy was to have an easier time..while collecting charity!..He did not realize that there is more to life than begging.

Although he was dreaming of a bright future,.he could only imagine it by comparing it to his present conditions...We should not make the same mistake when thinking about Moshiach.



Imagine..that you have lived your entire life in a dark tunnel...Your parents and grandparents lived there too,..and so did their parents and grandparents...You have grown accustomed to the darkness and developed the necessary skills to survive.

You move through life,..sometimes staggering in the dark,..at other times feeling your way along...You are totally resigned to the fact that this is what life is,..and that it will continue to be so.

But you have been told..or have read in some ancient books..that long ago,..your ancestors lived in a very different,..well-lighted place...You have heard..that there is indeed a light at the end of this tunnel,..that you don't necessarily have to spend your entire life in darkness.

And besides,..you have learned to cope here,..to make yourself comfortable in the darkness,..so why would you want to risk changing things

Dear FG,

It's a step in the right direction - but it's in early
stages - it needs financial incentives to develop and
educate the power producing industry and politicians.

Renewal energy such as solar and wind - particularly in
a country such as Australia is a more immediate
solution to energy production. Currently in China,
a solar power system is being built that will serve
a population of three million. If they can do it -
what's wrong with us?

Admittedly, it takes a large area of solar panels - but
in the interior of Australia, of vast emptiness, and
never ending sunshine, we have the means that no other
country can boast of.

Pericles: "Sounds pretty cruel to me."

These guys aren't being treated too badly. My understanding is it is more usual to give the algae a bad case of sunburn by drying them in the sun, then squish 'em between huge rollers to extract the oil. The remains of the algae carcases are feed to the pigs, and we burn the extracted oil in our cars.

Sure is a hard life, if you are algae. But that is what they get for being so selfish and making us belt the oil out of them. If they were more cooperative like these little buggers http://j.mp/TVYdK and put the oil in their poo, life would be much so much easier for everyone.

But I would not worry about it too much. Since these new kids on the block are 3 times as much oil as the algae, it is likely the algae will find themselves relegated to a retirement scum in the pond before too long.

Imagine..that you have lived your entire life in a dark tunnel..
under one god,
Imagine..that you have lived your entire life in a brightly lit room so bright that you are blinded. Well, that's what happened to all the left-wing do-gooders. I venture to say that a number of lives are lost due to the ignorance & non-caring of such blinded members in society. How many times do we see their idiocy on the news. Throwing people out on the street because they can't afford the rent because they lost their jobs. People have to sell their homes to pay for lawyers to fend off some idiotic claim. People not being able to get their money back from unscrupulous Super annuation schemes. People being treated like scum by bureaucrats because they stood up & reported wrong-doing. The list is endless ! Yes, many people have committed suicide because of such situations in which the LAW has let them down. The tax Dept. haunts people forever because they owe a few hundred $ yet some callous individuals seem to get the support of officialdom to rip off others with impunity. It is often reported but hey, was is being done about it ? Zilch ! If some of these victims then resort to taking their own lives again no notice is taken. Where are the help lines for families who hit rock bottom ? Where are the help lines for public service bullying ? Where are the help lines for youngsters not finding a place in society ? Nowhere ! Ask your local member to address these issues. This far more serious then some politically incorrectness on which so much resource is constantly wasted. Address peoples' needs not their vanity. By all means report suicides but report why & not how !

Appologies about that, clicked on the wrong button

It was good having PtB on the thread so soon, Forrest thought.

PtB's observation with respect to mass energy "All matter is energy. ...... the maxim was ... Now the maxim is .... Little particles in motion; Circles within circles." was deep. It stirred old memories in Forrest. The silent relentless click of the clathrate gun was now being drowned out by the much more audible chatter of the Maxim, allowing Forrest some respite from the mental load of constantly envisioning a planet with a runaway greenhouse effect due to increasing methane levels in the atmosphere. For some reason it called up some of the lyrics of 'Windmills of Your Mind':

"Round, like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel.
Never ending or beginning,
On an ever spinning wheel .....
.
.
.
.

Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes on its face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind"

The mind was a funny thing. From where had Forrest remembered that tune, those lyrics? What had triggered the memory? Was there a link somewhere that could make it all plain? Try as he would, Forrest just couldn't get to grips with it. PtB's reference to 'the Good Lord’s little helpers, grass, trees, vegetables and grains', was all very well, but what about the blooming cyanophyta, the blue-green algae that were a major part of the subject of this thread? They were being left right out in the cold, just like the Australian public were in the political arena with respect to utilities privatisations.

That's what Forrest wanted to get ventilated. Fire sales of public assets to fund the lifestyles of the politico-bureaucracy, the headlong retreat from open source and non-patentable technology by the custodians of existing public utility enterprises, and the appropriation of taxpayer funded or assisted research into proprietary technologies. All of it predicated upon the delivery of a captive market to privatised utilities by the politico-bureaucracy: a sell-out of the electors.

I loved that song when it first came out FG then again I was pretty stoned every time I heard it.
Like that comment from Peter the Believer, it reminds me why I am not a believer.

What a great idea if it works.

I have always thought we would be better to find a solution for carbon storeage, rather than to cripple our nation financially.

Fingers crossed!

One of the reasons I started this thread is because I once was motivated to look into gainfully using the enormous amount of waste heat from coal-fired electricity generation. This happened on an old OLO article comments thread, 'What's a bone-dry city worth?' (see: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5616#75523 and scroll around a bit), one posted by OLO contributor Peter Ravenscroft on 16 March 2007. The article's OLO by-line was "Water management in South East Queensland? It's enough to make a cane toad weep."

In the context of the then acute SE Queensland drought, I did some elementary calculations as to how waste heat from the existing coal-fired power stations could be applied to desalinating seawater. It appeared that waste heat alone could desalinate water equivalent to 75% of Brisbane's normal demand. This was dramatic enough, but a by-product of that projected desalination held out even more intriguing promise.

The near-saturated brine by-product, if stored in ponds, could be used as a medium for very cost-effective capture of solar energy utilizing the temperature inversion phenomenon. The thing was, it appeared as if this brine would accumulate such that if it was all utilized in solar pondage it would only take from seven to 13 years for the pondage to be collecting as much energy from the sun as the coal-fired electricity output of the power stations!

Here was a pathway for dismounting from the evil, sky blackening, GHG producing old king coal! And it could solve a water shortage problem in the process.

It seems to me that the integration of oil algae culture into a waste heat utilization project itself leading into large scale solar pondage would make an enormous amount of sense in an Australian context. We generate 80% of our electricity from coal, of which we have enormous amounts. We are heavily dependent upon imported liquid petroleum fuels in a supply scenario with respect to oil as we know it having reached peak availability.

What are we to do?

G'Day All,
Foxy the idea of a giant solar panel in the desert is something that I cannot see has not raised its head in all this "power talk" it's all this clean coal or nuclear.
Why not a giant solar panel we have the technology we have enough unemployed & we have the skills.
Further why not solar panelled street lights the same as those garden lights or whatever.
With this we could have a set up the way that Forest says as a back up supply of power.
The whole point is it needs something done now instead of the ones that can make things happen sitting around getting paid to do nothing.
Have a good life from Dave

An article 'Big Oil turns to algae' in Technology Review (see: http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/23039/page2/ ) contains the seemingly daunting information that:

"A study in 2004 at the University of New Hampshire concluded that 30 million acres--a space the size of South Carolina--would be required to grow enough algae to satisfy U.S. transportation needs."

In Australia, with perhaps less than one tenth the requirement for transportation fuels as the US, this may not be so daunting. Three million acres is equivalent to 4688 square miles, or 12,141 square kilometres. The area of Lake Torrens, for example, is 5,700 square kilometres. Lake Gairdner is around 11,000 square kilometres in area. There are many smaller salt pan lakes in Australia.

So should it be that in Australia it became necessary to substitute algal oil for all conventionally derived oil presently used in transportation, the availability of potentially suitable land area with good insolation would seem not to be an insurmountable problem.

When, in conjunction with the sort of pondage required for oil algae culture, it is considered that solar pondage, based upon actual trials, requires around six hectares of pond surface per megawatt of 24/7 base load generating capacity, the synergistic possibilities for renewables-based liquid fuels and electricity generation seem quite encouraging. Thus, to substitute the 1,400 Mw coal-fired output that the Tarong power station is capable of, would require around 7,800 Ha of pondage. ( http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2103#52294 ) That is hectares, not square kilometres; a unit 100 times smaller than the square kilometres in which we have been talking.

Now it might be objected that suitable dry salt lakes are not necessarily adjacent to where we presently burn coal. Don't you worry about that. There are things called pipes, through which the carbon-enriched seawater, used in what amounts to the sequestration of carbon dioxide at the power station, can be pumped to suitable algal, and solar, pond sites.

Big project? Yes, but requiring only fairly conventional low and non-proprietary technology, of the sort Australia has, or can get.

dwg,

A major reason photo-voltaic solar panels are not more widely used is that they are not yet cost-effective. There was an article 'Installing solar PV panels - the figures don’t add up, BUT… ' ( for comments see: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8569&page=0 ), but the upshot of that was that while individual householders could buy their own panels they were still not independent of the grid if they did so. The feed-in tariffs proposed to encourage installation of more PV panels are not much more than a money pipeline from all electricity consumers to an overseas manufacturer and a handful of local installation and maintenance contractors. Australia can do better than that.

Successful testing of a 20Kw Katrix® 'Decebal' motor, a new class of high efficiency fluid motor having an isentropic efficiency of greater than 42%, and developed with the assistance of a Renewable Energy Development Incentive (REDI) grant, was announced on 1 February 2006. These motors are seen as becoming a core component of small-scale residential and commercial solar thermal combined heat and power systems. See: http://www.katrix.com.au/default.aspx

I should imagine that devices like the Katrix motor would be able to be integrated into the conversion of solar thermal powered wood pyrolysis waste heat into electricity, something that is potentially achievable at residential scale for free-standing buildings on or off the grid, of which there are many in Australia. The integration of small-scale CHP systems with wood pyrolysis potentially creates a means of overcoming the intermittency of solar thermal energy. The wood gas produced can be burned when the sun is not shining. The whole process is GHG neutral. The charcoal produced, whilst it could be burned, is probably of more use in sequestering carbon and overcoming 'peak soil'.

It is now late 2009. I wonder has the Katrix 'Decebal' gone the way of the Sarich orbital engine? What protection against 'patent trolling' exists for the results of taxpayer assisted developments of this nature, I wonder?

But I digress, don't I?

Forrest reckoned he knew the mind of David Letterman, how he would handle the situation that had arisen on OLO this afternoon of a long weekend Monday, with posting to the Forum being of course so absolutely frenetic. David had recently received a nasty letter. Forrest had this afternoon lost 1782 nasty letters, in an opening post to an article comments thread that was deemed to be off-topic, and had been taken down following complaint to such effect by some user. Yet it had been Forrest who had made the first comment, thereby putting 'Driven by indignation at injustice' on the index!

So Forrest was about to digress again.

Forrest had thought long and hard about it, whether possibly being off-topic could perhaps even see his present post get taken down. Then Forrest suddenly remembered as the opening poster in this general discussion thread, that he could effectively define what was, or was not, on topic!

This topic was 'Power with pride going Belly-up?'. To many that would have the connotations of expectations of pride in publicly-owned electricity generation and/or self-sufficiency in sustainable energy supply, all being called into question. Some, Forrest included, had posted in that vein. There were other manifestations of power, however. One such was the responsible exercise of judicial or executive authority under the rule of law. Another was the power of the written word; the old pen being mightier than the sword stuff, and that too looked, at least here on OLO, as if it was going Belly-up.

Forrest was driven by indignation at the injustice of it all. True it was that GrahamY had invited Forrest to submit a topic along the lines of the taken-down post, but the only real inspiration that would come to him was along the lines of a topic 'Farewell to Onlineopinion: it was fun while it lasted, but its become to be too hard'. His lost post BELONGED where it had been first placed. It positively RESONATED to the Deputy PM's article title.

Here's its text about Power:

forrest what has upset you so..grayham must have been under immenmce presures...and of course i cant even guess what was deleted...but it has a political overtone for my summation

forrest quote<<..It positively RESONATED..to the Deputy PM's article title....>>ok you got me curious...must find out what julia has done gone and wrote...and take note...she has made certain promises to some fiends of mine..

and seemingly is a lawyer..[they all conspire..against us]..we that become legally wards of the court..imbisiles is the teqnical term..when the law enforces deceptivily the laws of contract..as statuted crime...and not alone seeking to remedy..the law of victim

govt was constituted to control govt acts..not police/regulate or make worse..the peoples...remember..you promised julia...i knew it wernt woirth the time spent listening fawnigly to your oaths/utterances...

but that time is past...and pehaps off topic...here..but im not getting what/your meaning forrest...when grayham censors my posts[a rare occasion..i simply shop arround for another topic allready running..to slip it in quitely...on the qt...please slip it in somewwhere..why not here...or at least give a hint

you know we love you...r-u-ok?

<<Here's its text about Power:>>>?

oug,

I thought I was all set to post the sequel to my 'David Letterman' post above within seconds of it first appearing, having set up multiple tabs with posts to go in readiness. Unfortunately, I suspect GrahamY has become the unwitting prisoner of his (?) own software. When I went to post the verbatim copy of my post that had been taken down from the 'Driven by indignation at injustice' article comments thread, one that had been taken down solely because some user had complained that it was 'off-topic', I encountered a message from the OLO site to the effect that "this post has already been posted" and that I could not proceed further.

Well, true enough, it had been, if ever so briefly, for perhaps half an hour to an hour. However, when I went to post it on this thread (one that I had started myself), although it was no longer present upon OLO, that was the message I got. To be fair, OLO has been from time to time plagued by spamming posters, who have multiply posted the same content across multiple threads: perhaps there has been a software enhancement that is intended to prevent such multiple posting, and this has been an unintended outworking of it.

To answer your question ".r-u-ok?": no I am not. As a long-time scrupulous observer of the Forum rules, I am deeply pissed off. In a way I am glad that I have not been able to post the facimile of the deleted post, because if I had been able to do so I believe it would have stood (for as long as it was allowed) as an incontrovertible witness to one of the worst moderation decisions in the history of OLO, and been very destructive of this Forum.

The deleted post was a non-politically partisan challenge to the Deputy PM to use her influence to secure due process at law on behalf of two believably innocent UK citizens facing the prospect of extradition without trial or hearing in the UK, to the US.

Regards,

Forrest

ok forrest im unfamilour with that topic that went belly up...and brits have special laws..[where they go their laws go[apparently]..but..[without knowing..of what you speak..extraditions strongly repy on in confidence evidences..[that need to be tested in courts]..on general lines alone..there is a legal weight there..that may have put the forum at risk..should the owner moderator not act

i feel we can talk about the generalities of going belly up without naming names or events...and have made certain contracts to brithish exiles myself on occasion...and would find it easy to simply generalise on their circumstance,and offer my reasoning to resolution[without naming specifics]

im one of many here that have met grayham..and know he dosnt censor lightly..there will no doudt have been a legal requirment that forced him to censure...and as i dont know any other detail...i cant gues how that complaint would have been worded...often simply leaving out names is enough to neutralise any legalities

so we have a legal issue...thus without naming names[or country juristictions involved..please advice what the offence...and what would be your remedy...that would be fair to all concerned

i dread losing your postings..oops sorry i mean losing the poster...lol..[you will have noted the joy you bought when you finished?..healing thyself..with nature and sun...[see i didnt need to spell it more clear

..your an artist in words...wheras for me language is a blinding spell/spelling matrix..i enjoy dis-spelling..you are a master at words...and could spell it out a little clearer..

[without me..needing to read..to the not-linked post]..or without grayham getting reasoned?/legal/cautio/warnings.. complaint..to retain compliance with the powers that be..

he stands between us and anarchy...a word often much represented..things are more orderly than appears..we have all had debates about meaning..[as well as meaningless issues...and should be able to discuss specifics..non specificlly...enough to help find a better solution..to many of lifes secrets..[knowable knowns]

Forrest knew about Power, that you had to be careful with it, and so too with Pride. As the saying goes, 'power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Forrest wasn't proud: he had resolved to tread carefully while trying to speak powerfully. His online virtual life and incognito persona were as nothing compared to the lives of the two accused 'fugitives' in the UK facing extradition and sentences of up to 98 years each in a US prison.

Having dealt with the niceties of autonomous topicality, Forrest proceeded to address oug's concerns.

OLO user 'oug' suggests legal reasons may have been behind the deletion of the post. GrahamY said in his email, and quite courteously at that, that it was taken down only because a complaint received that it was off-topic to the Deputy PM's 'Driven by indignation at injustice' article comments thread was one with which he agreed. I'll try, by breaking the original (now deleted) post up and quoting it bit by bit here (where it is now topical) in successive posts, to let viewers make their own assessment of it. Hopefully that way its otherwise possibly damaging effect upon the Forum's credibility will be dissipated.

Here beginneth the text:

"Well Julia, here's a chance to show how driven by indignation you can be.

In the UK, Brian Howes and his wife, Kerry, are awaiting extradition to the US. They have broken no UK law in doing what it is that they are accused of by US authorities. Their alleged offence is that of selling chemicals, chemicals lawfully able to be sold in the UK, over the internet, to claimed US crystal methamphetamine synthesizers, an offence in the US."

TBC

Forrest now had the OLO anti-spamming software's measure. He would serially quote the deleted post's content. It might even become a 'killer' serial! By now OLO might be starting to benefit from the 'Dick Smith Principle': 'all publicity is good publicity, even bad publicity'. There was nothing like a good online stoush to lift the ratings!

"Cry havoc ...."

....... and let slip the dogs of Waugh" said Forrest, slightly misquoting himself.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2063#43464

Forrest had been observing the serving the Deputy PM's article 'Driven by indignation at injustice' was copping in the comments thread. It was already coming second in the 'Today's most popular' ratings on the OLO main page. And to think that it had been Forrest who had put it onto the index in the first place with his now-deleted first post to it! Such ingratitude! No wonder Forrest was pissed off. His post had been exemplarily polite by comparison.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=9513&page=0

Here continueth the deleted text:

"Whilst US officials claim the evidence against the couple includes incriminating emails, false or misleading packaging, and the evidence of undercover agents who posed as customers, and supply of enough chemicals to make 635kg of crystal meth, there has been no extradition hearing in the UK in which such claimed evidence (which, on the face of it, would seem enough to convict all US users of said chemicals the subject of this investigation) could be examined. Such accused, although they may never have been to the US, are referred to, in advance of any conviction, as fugitives in the US process.

This seems an utter travesty of justice."

TBC

Powerful enough? Forrest wondered.

Proud of it? Forrest sure was.

Going belly-up? Forrest didn't think so.

It was good, keeping autonomously on topic like what Forrest was. It gave him a deeply satisfying feeling of self-righteousness, this utter compliance with the Forum rules that he was displaying. It was almost phun. In fact Forrest hadn't had so much phun with the Forum since the days of 'Gordy the Big Engine that Could'

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=884#15532

"Could Gordy do it? Yes he could!" Those words had become the basis for the slogan of the man who had now become the most powerful man in all of Ireland, Barach O'Barmagh. To think he owed them to Forrest!

The internet (and OLO) was good for sort-of blogging. The Yanks had largely developed it, but now blamed others for its usefulness.

Scots should get off free!

Go Echelon!

i read from the link
a dueling scene apparently...then some other stuff that links to topic
sometghing about voting but affectivly not a real lot more about any brits[either mine or yours nor no julia,nor drugs...though i felt stoned reading it
i went to the fist post[after reading a lot of fiction...and cant be bothered reading that further..Fractelle,<<..The above line is from one of my favourite films, ‘Cool Hand Luke’...I have already ‘outed’ myself as a nerd,..and now I confess that I am a bit of a movie buff, with a preference for film noir. And no-one has presented miscommunication as effectively as Paul Newman’s character in that seminal film.

One of the biggest problems facing the inveterate OLOer is getting our meaning across to others.>>>and for me it seemed all seemed pretty clear[was fractile a surrogerate for julie wonders johan

but back the the quote...about our poor comunication skills[a point indidnt oobserve from your link..in fact i see no relation ship to the info postedc previously..unless fractile went to daddy[that dosnt read so[or i m,missed it[im socialy blind

fractile..<Sometimes we succeed,..sometimes we fail...I am as guilty as any when it comes to misreading or misunderstanding another’s post.

Also, irony is difficult even in conversation and it becomes even more of a challenge when in written form...Also we are often forced to use capitals when trying to place emphasis, which means that the post can appear ‘LOUD’.

Please OLO editors facilitate communication and provide the tools we need. The technology is out there.

Gentle OLOer, if you would like a more sophisticated editing system for your posts, please put forward your agreement here.

And if not: why not?>>>i hate change for change sake[ok make the print larger...but the rest too much risk to the forum structure..that is just got it bugs sorted...except for going down a few times...only to be expected by those in power..to use their powers

seems iots multijuristyictional issues..thaty fail the first hurdle...the breaking of the juristictional law[no victim no crime

Forrest hadn't realized at the time he had made the (now deleted) first post to the Deputy PM's article 'Driven by indignation at injustice', that that article was the vanguard of the OLO October Feature 'Personal Epiphanies'. Gee, had his post been a thread-killer, or seen as such? Forrest didn't think so (he wasn't that powerful), but it did cast the 'off-topic' complaint and subsequent moderation decision in a different light. A lot of OLO work stood to have been stonkered, albeit unintendedly. Something had had to be done.

Forrest's post (of which he was so proud) would have provided the Deputy PM with a perfect opportunity to have proven her claim as to what drove her, however. Maybe even resulted in a new epiphany for her. It had been all about injustice, and engendered indignation. See for yourself.

Here completeth the deleted text:

"I make no representations as to the innocence of this couple. The thing is, it has been, I understand, claimed by the US authorities in relation to this matter that the Howes' have also knowingly supplied such chemicals to Australian Class A drug dealers.

http://extradition.org.uk/2008/12/28/amateur-pyrotechnics-couple-face-us-extradition-hearing-in-january/

This, I suggest, should be put to the test. If there is evidence to this effect, Australian authorities should already know of it. If they do, should not Australia seek the extradition of this couple as a matter of urgency? Should not such an Australian extradition request, being from another British Commonwealth country, take precedence over one from the US?

Unlike the situation prevailing under the UK-US one-sided post-September 11 extradition treaty, which allows UK citizens to be forced to the US to stand trial and to be extradited without presentation of prima facie evidence of criminality, an Australian extradition request would result in an extradition hearing in the UK, wouldn't it?

http://extradition.org.uk/2009/04/27/couple-faces-extradition-over-chemical-sales/

Justice."

END

Note, the first link in the text quoted was not in the original post, but should have been. I had lost sight of it, and have only just tracked it down.

Belly-up?

Forrest felt so much better now.

It is testimony to the relatively light and fair hand of moderation that GrahamY exercises over the Onlineopinion Forum that Forrest's preceding three posts are still up for all the world to see. Especially with Forrest having once, several years ago, called Graham a 'country express', spoken with that most inopportune stutter that sometimes afflicts him.

It nevertheless must have been like manner from heaven to GrahamY when some senior public servant denizen of OLO, probably from the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC), had clicked the little red crossed-baseball-bats icon and requested that the original first post to the Deputy PM's 'personal epiphany' article be deleted. Otherwise the first article of the October Feature might never have got off the ground properly. No doubt that archtypical 'public servant' or 'political staffer' could see the workload coming that Forrest's post would undoubtedly generate if the Deputy PM should be believably thought to have read it.

Huge international diplomatic incident just waiting in the wings to happen.

It was just as well for those public servants and political staffers that the present Federal Parliamentary Opposition by and large weren't worth a stamp. They, too, had staffers whose job it was to monitor the free press (which these days meant forums and such, like OLO), and some of these staffers could actually read! For any of them to actually detect the smell, however, that was arising from the Howes' extradition (or the Polanski one for that matter), would probably require someone to run a bobcat load of the proverbial right into their plush green and grey, or pink and grey, decored offices.

Suddenly Forrest had the answer!

Bob Katter.

Bob Katter, the Independent Member for Kennedy in Federal Parliament, was committed to standing up against, among other things, the state's removal of people's rights.

http://www.bobkatter.com.au/

Bob was a real Aussie, not like so many others of the wimpish politically-correct type that now infest Australian politics. Forrest knew that if you wanted something done, ask a busy man.

Although plausible deniability with respect as to having been informed of the relevance of the Howes' extradition matter was now a lost cause for the Deputy PM, political manna from heaven had nevertheless fallen into her lap.

Forrest just knew he would have to walk her through it.

Although trumping the US application for extradition of the Howes couple from the UK with an Australian request for extradition was something the Australian government could presently refrain from doing, Julia Gillard held an ace, which, if she played it, could ensure the probable fragmentation of the Liberal Party 'opposition' for a generation.

The intended extradition of the Howes' without even a hearing in the UK was an outrageous betrayal not only of Britain's long and proud heritage of the rule of law, but of the hundred thousand Australian war dead, and more, of the last century that had given their lives to help protect that heritage.

The thing was, the previous Australian government had done it too, already! The case of Hew Griffiths' extradition for trial in the US, when what he was accused of doing was also an offence here in Australia for which he could, and should, have been tried here, was a case in point.

http://bit.ly/TtjOs

The present ALP government could play merry hell with that record if it successfully intervened in the Howes' extradition! And it could demonstrate something other than completely supine compliance with what was becoming an increasingly arrogant US foreign policy that was taking its staunchest allies, and their legal process, completely for granted.

The question was, was the Deputy PM a true-blue Aussie through and through? She might come to be conflicted when she realises that there might have to be an electoral price paid by the present Labour government in the UK once the necessary hearing attendant upon an Australian extradition application is held.

Forrest reckoned that by now Bob Katter was well aware of this matter.

Forrest also wondered what Nye Bevan would have thought of the present Labour governments, both here, and there.

Forrest was powering on.

Some days are diamonds, and some days are stones.

For Julia and Bob today looked like being a diamond. For Julia the prospect in the not too distant future of a new epiphany, a joining of the company of Golda, Indira, and Margaret Hilda, if only she simply kept her nose clean and told the truth. For Bob, payback time for the economic rationalists, settlement day for the dues owed the bush, and the initiation of the restructuring of Australian politics. It looked like being a most interesting political marriage of convenience, Bob and Julia's, in the mean time.

Forrest had a feeling in his water that Onlineopinion might shortly be featuring in question time at Parliament House when sittings resumed. So today was probably going to be a diamond for GrahamY, even if a perhaps somewhat rough one.

For Malcolm Bankster Turnbull today looked like being a stone.

There was a certain madness to Forrest's method. It was a bit like pointing the bone, or singing a stone. Slowly Forrest began to chant the magical incantation:

"Joh, Joh
Kennedy, Kennedy
Let's go to the Court of St James ...."

The homophonic parody of the old satirical poem would mean different things to different people. For Malcolm Turnbull the term 'hockey stick', associated as it was with climate change, had acquired a whole new meaning. "Joe, Joe ..." It also called to mind the near shave he had had in Wentworth with that Parkinson's NSW publicity campaign, when a very old and infirm political warrior may have considered nominating against him, and going out with his boots on, taking Malcolm down with him. "Joh, Joh ..."

In Washington it would call to mind those now departed Lords Warden of the Cinque Ports, and what they had been prepared to do to preserve the lives and liberties of their respective nations. It might look like all their Christmasses were coming at once.

In London, the ghosts of Aneurin Bevan and Enoch Powell would be haunting Westminster, witnesses to the shame of the planned Howes' extradition: Britain's new darkest hour.

Ode to McCrae

There stand the crosses
Row on row
And nightly still to this very day
At the Menin Gate does a trumpet blow
In memory of those who lie below
In Flanders fields.

Seems they died in vain
those men of old
whose names are writ on the Menin Gate
whose bones lie scattered around, below
In Flanders fields,
where the poppies grow.

In that other field,
where King John did yield
In Britain, yes, that Britain of old
where beneath the gaze of the Barons bold
on parchment that Great Charter was writ;
the weeds now grow, and cover it.

In Flanders fields, though long out of the fight
The million dead lie awake all night.
The torch on the ground, out, covered with weeds
The faith now broken, of Runnymede.

For Britain now is a modern state
Law and liberties? What are they mate?
Where heritage now just counts for nought,
and trial and hearings routinely abort.
Where just because of a terrorist fright
for the asking they'll readily extradite.

QUOTE<<In Flanders fields,
where the poppies grow.
the elcia-rda reaps the harvest
soldin the slums
fillin up jails
while beating [bleating] from their gums

In that other field,
where King John did yield
In Britain, yes, that Britain of old
where beneath the gaze of the Barons bold
on parchment that Great Charter was writ;

that of common propriatry
jury by peers
moneies of coin
the only legal tender
the constitution[of these vairious states]...has fortold

the weeds now grow, and cover it.
legislated contractual civil oppression
via statute and act
subverting act into contract

the sheeple fail to react
thus under the constitutions of the state
[of these commonwealths..of sovereign estates held/under trust

In Flanders fields,and many other fields and deserts
in water or trench
our fighting has not brought peace

pieces, though long out of the fight
The million dead lie awaken all through this darkest of night.

The torch of truth harmony and love
lie dimming upon/or on the ground,
nearly rubbed away..not quite rub-bed/out,

sure..they are dimmed
covered with weeds
The faith now broken,
seeking drug induced solace
of Runnymede....made into jin.

[AB-origonal]...sic

For Britain's origonie/states
now unioned.. now a modern state..state
pretending demon-mocracy
statuted Law and terrost debilitating
that left of our liberties?

What are they mate?
Where heritage now just counts for nought,

and trial and hearings routinely abort.

Where just because of a terrorist fright
for the asking .que warrento...by what right
they'll readily extradite.

look up entente
the time is for talking and listening
not anyones words to abort

It had been a bit of a rum rebellion, what with some of the backbenchers backbiting their guv'nor, Malcolm Turnbull, like what they had. Perhaps it just went with the middle name, Bligh. Or the territory. Everyone soon knew about this because, like on Channel 9 where there was these days increasingly getting to be less real news, Joe had told them, Joe'd told them so. As a consequence, Mr Christian was now going to be able to have the running of the good ship 'Bounty' all to himself, at least for a while.

There had been a sea change.

Forrest realized that he had sort of dropped Julia right in it by having implicitly foreseen a time when Kevin might no longer be on the scene, but there had been nothing intendedly pointed in this omission. Forrest was pointing the bone in a different direction, and it was clearly having its effect already. Forrest nevertheless wished there was an omissions trading scheme in existence: for all its evident effectiveness, bone-pointing didn't pay very much, only a bob or two.

But hey, sufficient unto the day had been the evil thereof. Such mild embarrassment would surely pass unnoticed against the background of the fortuitous events of recent days, and Julia could perhaps do a bit of networking, with the advantage of her recent literary epiphany, around Westminster with members of the UK Labour government. Who knows but that she could not be helpful in crafting a face-saving exit for them from the embarrasment of the Howes' extradition matter? There was always the telephone. After all, it had been HER epiphany: Kevin could have one any time he wanted; OLO is always ready and waiting.

Remember, post hoc ergo propter hoc!

Forrest didn't want to labour the point too much, but thought there was a simple message in all this for an Opposition and its associated political party structure groomed for decades in all manner of subtle ways, to the point that sight had been lost of the nation's heritage: Constitutional monarchy good; republic,BAD!

i can tell your in shock...[third person referancing]..but julia is as hamstrung as the rest of us...she would know the law is a law that en-force-es itself...upon who ever they chose as today meat

it has the guns/prisons/judges/lawyer/barristers...who can become polititions[and do to the extent of lawyers in govt is near 50 percent

lawyers know their standing only at the cwhim and will of the court...not called a system...for light nor transient cause...but to wholsale oppress or favour who so ever it chose

julies selection of title set this entrain...had she not revealed her..lol..indignation...at succeeeding so wonderfully beyond her station...lol..one should have realised her indignation..at being forced to do many things againsts her nature

it could should have been its own topic...all this unclear expresion dosnt raise the issues...nor advance the insanity of policing drugs..or in this case seemingly precursors...where policing policy via armed cops subverts the duties of the healers curing pain...all drug use is pain

see were all..doing things as best we can..

but none of us is doing perfect..because this is the realm of imperfection...were ALL being tested...to whom much is given...is only the measure of..how many tests..[serving mammon...we have served..anyhow ball is yet again in your court...aim between the lines and the net

how should julia have responded...?
say graham..got a high up/complaint..how should he react?

for that matter..predict the reply..you would have sought/hoped/anticipated.. from the olo posters...

its gotta be better than third personing...im faily sure the deletion isnt as much the issue..as reason de tare...

[ooops..mind block]...sets in

darn all this research...lol

Post hoc ergo propter hoc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaPost hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "after this, therefore because (on account) of this", is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) which ...

raison d'être
(French)..reason for existence.

reason - definition of reason by the Free Online Dictionary ...Definition of reason in the Online Dictionary. Meaning of reason. Pronunciation of reason. ... the reason for/why &#8594; la causa de/la razón por la cual;..

other issues..quote<<..backbenchers backbiting belicose buffoonary belittling beligerantly betwen their master/..their guv'nor,Malcolm Turn...bull,like what they had.>>.in unity lies perpetual opposition..you cant walk both sides of a brabed wire fence[global warning is a new tax..and tax payer subsidy..for big business..we simply got no opposition..stand against this mal..

lets try to have refendums..where clearly the full import and cost of this new subdsidy/in tax form..to big business gets its full informing,..yay or nay..give choice..theres a new concept

<<Channel 9 where there was these days increasingly getting to be less real news...lol...your not joking...night before last the primetime/news..[lol]..was norman not talking about mrs norman...now not saying something..is deemed news worthy..

its totally not news worthy...and is sports besides..

yet it chew up prime news time...keep all sport in sport...news only real news...dont even mention sport...news..[real news dosnt get the time sport does...

another issue for julia...john gave murdoch..whatever he wanted[high def...that wont squeeze down the internet tubes..getting ever more censoredlol..meaning his owing the free air/..and cable..franchise safe...

its treason..by those who done it..as well as those who let it remain

Forrest had not long ago sent this tweet to Brian Howes:

" @Brian_Howes 'Ode to McCrae' is my original work. All are free to use it subject to http://bit.ly/4dxGyv "

The tiny URL link therein is a link to the OLO legals page.

Forrest then thought he should make it expressly clear what the origin was of the work that had inspired his little poem, so he sent this tweet shortly thereafter:

"@Brian_Howes Col JohnMcCrae wrote 'In Flanders Fields' http://bit.ly/12iifx NB2/last para "

The tiny URL link in the tweet is a link to a web page outlining the history behind the wearing of the red poppy on Remembrance Day, and giving some background to the writing of Col John McCrae's famous piece of war poetry, 'In Flander's Fields". This is the expanded link to that page: http://www.defence.gov.au/army/traditions/documents/inflandersfield_1.htm

Now the funny thing was, the characters 'NB2/last para' were missing from the tweet when it went up on Twitter. The text of the second last paragraph of the web page to which Forrest had been referring, and had given a link, was:

"Although the Red Poppy of Flanders is a symbol of modern times, legend has it that the poppy goes back even to the time of the famous Mongol leader, Genghiz Khan, as the flower associated with human sacrifice. In the 12th and early 13th centuries, the Mongol Emperor led his warrior hordes on campaigns south to the conquest of India, and west to envelop Russia as far as the shores of the Black Sea."

All pretty innocuous stuff, surely.

Then Forrest checked his own Twitter link ' http://bit.ly/12iifx '. Well blow him down if it didn't now give a '404', "The Web server cannot find the file or script you asked for ....."

Forrest immediately checked whether the expanded link would work. Same thing, another 404!

Was someone taking Forrest seriously?

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2107#44207

Someone who could fiddle with Twitter, and the internet? Who could that be?

Forrest thought he had better read John Pilger's article after all!

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=9518

yes only in the last few weeks have i noted that my pplaylist selections dont play anymore...many youtube clips now come up not permitted in your cuntry

noted this last week...quote,<<..Will Murdoch, AP Come After Shortnews?
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=81071

In a statement Friday, media magnate Rupert Murdoch said it's time for.."content kleptomaniacs"..to pay...He was referring to search engines and other web sites..that aggregate news content from multiple online news sources.

The publishing industry..has been lamenting over how they can increase online revenues..and with the recent economic downturn,..they have stepped up their efforts to regain profits..lost due to decreased advertisers in their..conventional media outlets.

The Associated Press is approaching the situation from what they call their AP3P strategy.

The three P's..being..protect, point and pay.

The AP may offer licensing levels whereby some sites can pay to receive news a bit earlier than others.

Source: www.csmonitor.com

there is a link to the articles of faith
http://news.google.com.au/news/more?pz=1&cf=all&ned=au&cf=all&ncl=dGjyZo43cHFcSlMT8eXa7KmRpEsGM

as well as this
Don't Knock Rupert Murdoch's Paywall Plan
and a link
http://blogs.bnet.co.uk/sterling-performance/2009/10/09/dont-knock-rupert-murdochs-paywall-plan/

looks like the police state poisening people into ignorance is near complete

noting murderoc's high definition dosnt travel well in telstra's pipes...its clear what the outcome is intended to be done...as soon as possable...noting krudd visited murderok...and the censure began

have noted less 404...but more..you not permitted to know this info/nor acces this site...even then..the alex jones show..has had two days of replay...being allowed to be put out to the world..while his live/show gets suppressed...in real time..you tube download time has doubled

its time we recalled security-agencies..own the searchengines..and the media..

this is likely the last time..we can note that armed forces..[civil and miletary]..run many cuntries..systems within systems..are shutting down freespeech...to serve their masters..for pathetic baubles and lol..[honours...via dishonour/via disservice]

hut its no less that the sheeple will let them make/take
its time to tax exclusive franchise..

we own the rights to voice our words
que warrento...by what right

Man you guys are legends!

Such wonderful waffle. Next time I have a few spare hours, I'll try and decipher it all, but I haven't the time at the moment. You sound like you're having fun though and that's the point.

I loved '. and let slip the dogs of Waugh" said Forrest, slightly misquoting himself.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhaPzTBIZVc

A New work from The World Freeman Society and ThinkFree.ca and Freeman-on-the-Land Robert-Arthur: Menard in support of Marc Emery and Canadian Sovereignty.

You can claim immunity from extradition, and visit claimimmunity.ca to download documents and claims. Send them to the Minister of Justice and make sure you do not end up like Marc Emery.

In fact if enough eople claim their immunity, maybe Marc will too, and maybe he can avoid jail.