Another alleged paedophile in the Catholic Church:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/sydney-priest-groomer-caught-on-webcam-court-told-20090814-ek4t.html?page=-1

Of course, there exists the Presumption of Innocence in our justice system. So it should be. However, again, again, we have the Catholic Church acting to support Christian clergy allegedly found in compromising situations. Why is the Church is willing to put up a $25,000 surety is beyond belief? Moreover, given the heinous nature of the alleged crimes, the Accused should not been granted bail.

How lame is this? “Mr Walsh said, that Father Fuller would not present a risk to the community and could live in a holiday apartment owned by the Catholic Church in Terrigal, while he went through the court proceedings.” – SMH

I wonder if Catholic parishioners are paying for the Legals?

The most dreadful thing about this?
It is nothing new, in a year full of such storys, and about this church nothing will change .
This grubby person will find refuge within his church, the victim had there actually been one properly would not have.
In time many Christian Church's will fall, few are getting their house in order and Catholics are perhaps the first to fall.

Oliver:”How lame is this? “Mr Walsh said, that Father Fuller would not present a risk to the community and could live in a holiday apartment owned by the Catholic Church in Terrigal, while he went through the court proceedings.” – SMH”

Terrigal is close to where I am. Yuck.

I don’t get it – I know other men right now are sitting in jail awaiting court on similar charges. Why would he be anywhere else?

A recalcitrate Catholic Church is, of course, fully aware of community condemnation of these priests. Yet, it looks after its own. I will predict now, there will be others before the anniversary of this email. Moreover, the Churches will act in their interests before the victims’.

In these cases, notice how the “deed” is often criticised by the Cardinal or Bishop, not the cleric. And even this criticism, too often, is forthcoming, only after an attempt to cover-up. And when these perverted acts are uncovered, the Churches put aside their Bibles and, call in the Lawyers.

On other OLO threads, parishioners and members of church congregations defend their own designation as, “Christian”, from histories cited by secular humanists, on the basis that the critics are wrong to relate “modern” Christianity to the secretive and malicious organisation of earlier centuries. They say, “The Church is contemporary”: e.g., in 1994 the Catholic Church stated it was wrong in the past and that the Sun is the centre of the solar system in agreement agree with science.

One does expect that a cloistered organisation with a million priests to have these incidents. Okay… But, also, one does not expect the Catholic Church in question to protect and shelter these offenders and alleged offenders, as has occurred in other cases.

On the matter of cover-ups, let’s not forget the Bishops are guilty of other crimes associated with the tainted behaviours of their underlings. These people too must be rendered to Caesar (Court).
Especially, Yahweh, the fierce OT god, would look upon many in the Christian clergy under the umbrella of the Catholic Church and remember, Sodom.

"It is nothing new, in a year full of such storys, and about this church nothing will change" - Belly

Sadly true.

"I know other men right now are sitting in jail awaiting court on similar charges. Why would he be anywhere else?"

The Judiciary want hold clerics accountable, I guess.

Dear Oly,

It's a complicated world isn't it?

Perhaps part of the solution to this ongoing
problem of paedophilia within the Church is
for the Vatican and Pope to allow the ordination
of properly trained and appropriate married men,
and the consideration of a much broader ministry
for women? And if they're not willing to take
action to 'normalise,' the clergy - then perhaps
the local churches can assume responsibility
for their own futures? It wouldn't be the first
time that the Church had to be reformed outside Rome.

>>other men right now are sitting in jail awaiting court on similar charges<<

Priest and priestess legislatures, anyone?

Foxy, we will never be able to stamp out paedophilia in the clergy of any religion by 'normalising' their lives.

These predatory men are out in the community at large as well, and many are married with children, but their activities are not curtailed at all by living a 'normal' life.

They join the church because it gives them closer access to children by way of church run schools and bible classes etc.

These disgusting individuals should be treated the same no matter what job they have. They should be castrated and locked up without chance of parole.

Dear Foxy,

Agree that something must be done at a greassroots level too. Perhaps, Catholic parishioners should be more vocal, as a group. Yet, traditionally the relationship between the Lay to the Clergy is deferrential in nature, favouring the latter. Inverting the relationship would not be easy.

If the Pope was emphatic about "no tolerance", it might not stop some instances but maybe, just maybe,it could truncate the serial offences. Yet, could it be the bonds between memebers of the clergy are so tight, the Pope's declarations would be sidelined in practice?


Suzeonline,

Of course, you are correct about the Churches being magnets for these deviants. What angers me is Church cover-ups and support of these preditors. The Bishops, who just transfer a priest to another school after a priest is caught, should be charged an gaoled too. Hindering due process is serious too.

Suze:”These disgusting individuals should be treated the same no matter what job they have. They should be castrated and locked up without chance of parole.”

Something made them disgusting along with all the other kinds of criminals. I’m not suggesting lenience, the subject confuses me.

Now say you have a 13 year old mother, DNA proves the father is an older man so hense a pedophile. Why an extended court case – why the fuss or bother at taxpayers’ expense?

I think I may prefer money spent on counseling for mother and the child will probably need some later as well.

But what these young girls are handed is tens of thousands in victim compensation, they’re often damaged and likely to again become victims but this time they come with a dowry.

This cash for crime makes little sense to me.

i seen this on tv the other day and it just shows another pedophile has been caught and he was a preist gromming our young children online ,

and the church said they would not bail him out

yet his freind who is also a preist had bailed him out ,

their are people on leeser charges in gaol awaiting to attend court with out bail

but this pedophile can get bail ,of which no one will relly know if he will do this again ,

a disgace on our laws and bail conditions

looks like the law wants him preying on more young people maybe next time he won't get caught and what will happen to the child then

these people need to be six foot under and taught a lesson

to many people are getting away with these crimes and its about time the law acted for the victims instead of the pedophil

Oliver,

“Yet, could it be the bonds between memebers of the clergy are so tight, the Pope's declarations would be sidelined in practice?”

Good point. The Pope might want to “sweep the filth from the church”. However, particularly in Australia, groups of clergy often have no interest in complying with overseas hierarchy. The priest was obviously willing to break his vows. Ultimately his orientation is irrelevant. He is choosing to defy authority by attempting to have sex. Some such priests have no concern for the Catholic hierarchy and generally reject Catholic belief.
http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/stories2/071002_shanley.htm

“Moreover, given the heinous nature of the alleged crimes, the Accused should not been granted bail.”

Someone charged with a grooming a person under the age of 16 should stay locked up. As Pell said it is appalling. The guy obviously had pretty horrible intentions. However, unlike Pied Piper’s experience it looks to me that these days people pretty much have to be threatening witnesses or be accused of murder or have a history of failing to comply with bail requirements to be refused bail. Even then people accused of murder sometimes get bail based on:

Magistrates perception of likelihood of reoffending
http://www.theage.com.au/national/mother-charged-with-murder-of-son-gets-bail-20090723-dtur.html
Magistrates perception of strength of case
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/local/5812466/bail-for-comanchero-on-murder-charge/
and
http://www.cowraguardian.com.au/news/local/news/general/murder-accused-granted-bail/204977.aspx
?
http://www.goulburnpost.com.au/news/local/news/general/murder-accused-granted-bail/232130.aspx

“In these cases, notice how the “deed” is often criticised by the Cardinal or Bishop, not the cleric. And even this criticism, too often, is forthcoming, only after an attempt to cover-up.”

Please provide further detail. What was the attempt to cover up and when you say cleric do you mean the priest who allegedly did the crime?

Foxy,

“Perhaps part of the solution … ordination of properly trained and appropriate married men.”

(The term paedophilia actually refers to pre-pubescent children.) Anyway I struggle with your solution. Aren’t people more likely to be molested by male relatives? Don’t protestant denominations (with married priests) have a higher rate of paedophilia? Don’t paedophiles choose jobs which put them close to children rather than men turning into paedophiles if they go without for a while?

Pied Piper,
I believe most children molested by Clergy are males?

I haven't heard of any handouts of thousands of dollars given to young female victims that could be seen as dowry's by other paedophiles.
I am sure that these predators aren't too fussed with money when they are preying on children.
In any case, why wouldn't these child victims of crimes be any less worthy of compensation than any other crime victims?

I don't have the statistics on which religious
clergy has the higher rate of paedophiles -
Catholic or Protestant - and frankly - even
one is one too many. This is not a case of
"You've got more than we have."

The Vatican should definitely take a stronger
and more vocal stand on this issue. It should
be one of "no tolerance!" I can't understand
why it isn't. The Church of all places is
supposed to protect the young and the innocent -
and not condone and allow the abuse to continue.

It seems that homosexuality is frowned upon but
not paedophilia. One is an act between two consenting
adults, the other is about child abuse.

Father Robert Fuller - the priest who's the topic
of this thread - is accused of molesting
a 13 year old girl.

I can't help but wonder - where will this man end
up. At another primary school?
How long will people tolerate this non-action
from their Church?

So true Foxy, well said.
Somehow I don't think any of the usual OLO God-fearing contributors will be answering your questions.

Maybe new Priests for the Catholic Church or Ministers for the Anglican Church are so hard to recruit these days that any 'minor' indiscretions such as paedophilia can be overlooked or 'forgiven' in the confessional each time?

Suze:”I believe most children molested by Clergy are males?”

Yeah, but there are women around who ignore it.

“I haven't heard of any handouts of thousands of dollars given to young female victims that could be seen as dowry's by other pedophiles.”

It would be a bonus, young alone, groomed before, susceptible etc. These victims that don’t get the help or never admit anything was wrong + money (yep in the tens of thousands).

“I am sure that these predators aren't too fussed with money when they are preying on children.

In any case, why wouldn't these child victims of crimes be any less worthy of compensation than any other crime victims?”

I think everyone is interested in money but these girls who are on their own - they get it too young. Okay I am blithering about one situation that I know about. The girl will get it and be on her own in society way too young for the next predator that comes along or the same one maybe (depends on court) returns. This abuse was over years but not of a faith, although married to one.

What is the theory behind VC? What is the money for? It is a “sorry” from society?

"even one is one too many."

No argument there.

"This is not a case of "You've got more than we have."

Obviously not. However the solution is unlikely to be adopting the practice of groups with a higher rate of problem. I also suspect the married priest issue won't happen soon. The almost total marriage ban was introduced as a disciplinary measure after about 1000 years of married priests failing to abide by Jesus' call to make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. I doubt that incidents like these would instil confidence that it is time to trust priests more.

"The Vatican should definitely take a stronger and more vocal stand on this issue."

Some choice comments have been made. However that doesn't mean the media want to publicise it. The Pope must have made a lot of public comments about a lot of things in the last 8 months however the last time I read something it was his politically incorrect comments about homosexuality to some priests or was that excuse for a SSPX Bishop issue around since then? I discovered the Pope's vow to "sweep the filth" out of the Church in a Wikipedia article not my local mass media.

"It should be one of "no tolerance!" I can't understand why it isn't."

Absolutely and at the top end the Church calls for it. The US Conference of Bishops actually used those words. The Pope describing paedophiles as "filth" is more expressive but he was expressing essentially the same thing. In 2002 former Pope Jon Paul II said “...The abuse which has caused this crisis is by every standard wrong and rightly considered a crime by society; it is also an appalling sin in the eyes of God. People need to know that there is no place in the priesthood and religious life for those who would harm the young” Was this quote published outside of The Tidings magazine which is just an Archdiocese newspaper?

At a local level however, as I think Oliver noted, the Pope's declarations can be sidelined in practice.

I could not let the thread slip away and die without one last comment.
When will it stop?
When will we stop it?
We can talk about the Catholic church forever, some Christians say its evil, maybe it is.
But every church yes I truly think, has its child molesters.
Maybe my age gives me a different slant, maybe my childhood was different, maybe but.
I remember the Catholic priests visit to the huge Irish family along side my huge C O E one, the bloke was an evil bugger looking over the fence and calling little kids heathens!
Yet he was protected by his cloths, too many police courts and every one, thinks being a man/woman of God is evidence they are better.
A prison, some uncomfortable one, should be set aside and filled with these grubs,
Yet we will talk on this subject, again and again, and children will suffer, do right now some place,
We fail them, we must truly do better.

Hey Belly, not just every church but every single profession out there.

It appears the church people are just more inclined to walk away from it. I’m guessing the various churches pay for the good (probably bad use of word there) lawyers?

They are “set aside” within prison, even the other grubs can’t stand them.

Society it seems has always failed the kids. Get out there and choose a kid, keep one safe. Be a really nosey neighbor and watch the little kids. People aren’t allowed to be nosey anymore aye where if more people were watching it might help.

Hey did you see that American movie about the pedophile who had been released from prison and he was in a flat opposite a school and he spotted another one doing some grooming. He had a probation officer that hated him. It was a good movie and he also met a young girl who was being molested.

There is another Movie called Gone Baby Gone and I would love to meet some people that have seen that because it really gives a weird slant to “doing the right thing” for a child.

To me, this incident is just another in a very long line that helps demonstrate the stupidity of people attending church and allowing themselves to be 'ministered' to - especially by people so undeserving of any respect and only able to earn it through the antiquated notion of priesthood.

Sorry Foxy, but hopefully these incidents will help people see the folly in trusting themselves and their families to advice (and much more) from bible bashers wearing expensive robes and living comfortable lifestyles funded by others.

Sure, paedophiles are found in all walks of life, but churches definitely have more than their fair share. And one can only wonder how many more would be exposed if the churches didn't go to such elaborate lengths to close ranks and protect their own.

Hey Bronwyn,

That Catholic thing with the confessional… if a Catholic off the street walked into church for a confession and confessed to being a pedophile then they have to take the confession don’t they and let them go all forgiven?

I have no idea if that is correct, I know zilch about Catholics. But if it is correct then they also give confession to each other and aren’t allowed to nark? Must be a hell of a quandary for them.

Gday Jewely I think under Catholic laws the answer was once yes tell no one, maybe now some would tell but how many?
Lets not forget in any Church, any religion, some would protect that person not the victim.
I think this is a fault with humanity, we protect those we are linked to.
You have seen it, so have I mums and dads saying not my child, the victim egged them on, is at fault.
Never acceptable EVER, we each owe it to children forever to protect them.
A Little blond headed child, soon to be loved by is Grand dad and Grand mum like life itself, his uncles too.
Grew into a fine looking bloke, cried at grand dads death and nearly broke down after the death of his only mother he really had, his grand mother.
Still loved and protected by his uncles one carried the load every time he dropped it for him.
He one day broke that rule, he is a pedophile, his victim? his step daughter.
Uncle has not seen him for 15 years, wrote to him in prison but never heard him say I did wrong uncle.
Each and every one of us has to understand children must never be so badly treated, kids are our reason for living.
This uncle never gave up on that blond headed kid, can not ever do so, but Love is not a word I use now.
And I doubt he will ever understand why I think he should stay under lock and key.

Seems like my last post killed the thread.
Such things happen.
It is like real life we cringe away in embarrassment and mumble need to know.
I remain convinced I did no wrong.
That my pain at those events, hardened over the years.
To hurt, but not something I can not live with is a fact.
I wanted to highlight, UNDERLINE we all MUST never hide the facts.
Child abuse is awful, ALWAYS and a crime that should always be punished.
WE each of us, must never ever let our love for our own stand in the way of the law, no mater who, how much they mean to you, people who do such things must pay every time.
That was meant to be the lesson of that post, some hide evil because of love and become evil too.

You didn’t kill the thread Belly, I thought you’d more ended in on an important note about when and when not to forgive.

Belly you did the right thing and continue to do the right thing and I wish there were more people like you out there.

You are right, some people should feel not just the weight of justice but also the rejection of family and peers for what they have done.

It is a shame the Catholic people remain supportive of their own churches while they allow abuse of children to continue within Gods house.

Piper

You are asking about 'Absolution' where a priest formally forgives a person for all the wrong doing they have committed. Often conducted by Catholics prior to death, in order for them to enter heaven as cleared of all their sins and also during a confessional - for example, "Say three Hail Marys and you are absolved of calling the boss a c^nt". Foxy could probably answer this better than I. However, this absolution is like a 'get-out-of-jail-free' card. Just think of those priests who abused little children being absolved of their crimes. It explains why so few of them are tried by the law of the land and are protected by the church.

Fractelle, as a child growing up in the Catholic Church we were told to trot over to the confessional each week to report our sins of the previous week.
Every week I told the priest I lied to my mother and father. He would give me five "Hail Marys" and five 'Our Fathers" and I would go away happily and do it all again.

One sermon I was at as a teenager had the priest discussing the latest 'scandelous allegation' about a fellow priest in another parish having 'taken liberties' with some alter boys.

This priest suggested that the boys were all lying and as such had all been relieved of their duties as alter boys.
The accused priest was apparently absolved of all sins (what sins they were was never specified) by his local Bishop at his next confession and was moved to another parish for his own safety.
I often wondered about the alter boys in that other parish.
The mental health hospitals are full of patients who have been abused as children. It is never ok.

Fractelle while it was another thread the dragons are not gone faith is what we need.
I just want to underline my point, love can never be used to hide such crimes.
But I would lie if I said I would not be there for my relative, but trust?
Some rules of the very many reildgions I dislike are very good maps for life.
Forgiveness is not a thing I could do, but help if a effort was made?
yes every time.
Let us not forget its all reildgions and walks of life that do things like this.
I however truly think the Catholic church is by far the worst offender

Worst in what respect?

Some relevant news:

http://www.zenit.org/article-26770?l=english